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Fast And Furious And Ugly
IBD Editorials ^ | October 10, 2011 | Editor

Posted on 10/10/2011 5:59:40 PM PDT by Kaslin

Scandal: The attorney general once again pleads ignorance as some 40 Fast and Furious weapons are found at a Mexican drug lord's home. If the AG doesn't read memos, maybe he can read a subpoena.

After Eric Holder was involved in the pardoning of international fugitive Marc Rich, he confessed to not doing a thorough check of Rich's history and background. When he criticized Arizona's immigration law, SB1070, he admitted to not even reading the law. Now, with dead bodies and illegal weapons piled up high in Fast and Furious, Holder says he didn't read the memos.

Holder's "Sgt. Schultz" defense that he knew, saw and heard nothing about the ATF's gun-running operation does not wash with the chairman of the House Oversight Committee, Rep. Darrell Issa.

On "Fox News Sunday" Issa said he plans to issue subpoenas that Holder and other top Department of Justice officials will have to read. On Friday, Holder reacted to calls for a special prosecutor and the fact that five weekly emails sent to him by Michael Walther, director of national drug intelligence, in July and August 2010 should have made him aware of the program and its problems.

"I do not and cannot read them from cover to cover," Holder said in a letter to Republican Reps. Issa and Lamar Smith and Sen. Chuck Grassley and Democrat Reps. Elijah Cummings and John Conyers and Sen. Patrick Leahy.

We assume Holder reads the morning paper and has heard of the 40 assault weapons illegally purchased under the Phoenix ATF's Fast and Furious operation that somehow wound up in the home of Sinaloa cartel enforcer Torres "the Jaguar" Marrufo. If he has, we suspect his reaction might have been akin to that of another famous sitcom character, Steve Urkel: "Did I do that?"

(Excerpt) Read more at investors.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Front Page News; Government
KEYWORDS: atf; banglist; castaway; cia; clinton; dea; dhs; doj; ericholder; fastandfurious; fbi; gunrunner; gunwalker; hillary; hillaryclinton; holder; ibd; ibdguns; ice; impeach; obama; statedept
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1 posted on 10/10/2011 5:59:42 PM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

Terrorist chief Holder probably knew where the guns were, since his boys in the ATF were tracing them, ...right?


2 posted on 10/10/2011 6:03:10 PM PDT by pallis
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To: Kaslin
"I do not and cannot read them from cover to cover," Holder said...

How much of a memo would you have to read to find out the most remarkable fact about an operation?

3 posted on 10/10/2011 6:06:15 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Kaslin
In effect, Holder has claimed that he is too busy to do his job. Rep Issa isn't. You're going down, Eric, you're going down.
4 posted on 10/10/2011 6:07:56 PM PDT by JPG (America is worth saving. All hands on deck!)
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To: Kaslin

Under the laws of all 50 States AND the Federal Government Eric Holder is an accomplice to the murders of at least 200 Mexican citizens and at least 1 US Federal Agent.

Resignation is the least option on the table right now. To my mind multiple prosecutions under US and Mexican law are in order. Personally I’d let Mexico have first crack at him if they were to ask for his extradition.

The thought of Eric Holder spending the next 25 years in a Mexican prison warms my black heart through and through.


5 posted on 10/10/2011 6:08:03 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: pallis

What these news stories and editorials fail to mention is WHY Holder, Obama, and Clinton were behind Fast and Furious.

It was a “Reichstag fire” style dirty trick that was supposed to convince congress to reinstate the “assault weapon” ban. It blew up in their faces and now innocent people are dead.

Forget Holder. Obama’s and H. Clinton’s dirty fingerprints are all over this one. They need to pay.


6 posted on 10/10/2011 6:10:08 PM PDT by BigBobber
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To: Kaslin
The attorney general once again pleads ignorance

I'm inclined to believe him!

7 posted on 10/10/2011 6:10:12 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Lurker
He is guilty of arming organized crime syndicates in a foreign country leading to mass murder.

Interpol should be issuing a warrant for his arrest.

8 posted on 10/10/2011 6:11:01 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

Like someone said the other day on FOX News, Holder is either lying or he is incompetent


9 posted on 10/10/2011 6:15:43 PM PDT by Kaslin (Acronym for OBAMA: One Big Ass Mistake America)
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To: vette6387; MetaThought; 60Gunner; XHogPilot; FreedomPoster; Josephat; Prince of Space; ...

Fast And Furious And Ugly


10 posted on 10/10/2011 6:17:55 PM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: Kaslin
The same goes for 0bungles.

The State Dept. led DHS which led the DOJ which led ATF, the FBI, the DEA, ICE and the USBP but none of the heads of any of those agencies nor the Pres. had any idea what this super-multi-agency operation was about? Sure. lol

11 posted on 10/10/2011 6:19:39 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Kaslin

Helen Thomas was involved??????.......


12 posted on 10/10/2011 6:26:57 PM PDT by Red Badger (Furthermore, I think Obama must be impeached....................)
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To: Red Badger
Photobucket

What?

13 posted on 10/10/2011 6:31:19 PM PDT by Clay Moore (The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of a fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: TigersEye

http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin507.htm

next up Hillary what did she know and when did she know it? Did the State Dept authorized selling the weapons to Mexico or will that memo disappear along with the FBI files?


14 posted on 10/10/2011 6:32:01 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: pallis

If they weren’t tracing the guns - and they weren’t - what was really going on?


15 posted on 10/10/2011 6:35:35 PM PDT by GOPJ (Where is the headline that says: Obama Murders Hundreds of Mexicans! - freeper xzins)
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To: Still Thinking
I'm inclined to believe him!

That's the problem with this whole bunch: We're all inclined to believe that about everyone this guy puts in office. Thus, the beauty of all the moronic nominations Zero's ever made comes into view. They can all believably plead ignorance.

16 posted on 10/10/2011 6:38:48 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty
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To: Kaslin
Holder is either lying or he is incompetent.
Just like his boss! (A perfect match)
17 posted on 10/10/2011 6:42:15 PM PDT by Nevermore (...just a typical cracker, clinging to my Constitutional rights...)
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To: Kaslin
Full Coverage in The Boston Globe

Contact us!

Ombudsman

newstip@globe.com

617-929-8477

Editorial

617-929-3000

18 posted on 10/10/2011 6:42:35 PM PDT by pabianice (")
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To: GOPJ

I think we were being prepped for another assault on the Second Amendment. I’ve thought that for a while now.


19 posted on 10/10/2011 6:43:01 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty
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To: Kaslin

Has there been any link between the firearm used to kill the Air Guard members in Reno, NV and Fast and Furious firearms?


20 posted on 10/10/2011 6:46:36 PM PDT by WVNight (We havn't played Cowboys and Muslims yet....)
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To: GOPJ

“If they weren’t tracing the guns - and they weren’t - what was really going on?”

Well gosh, the Attorney General and the President couldn’t be undermining the Bill of Rights, could they? This is the sorriest bunch of radicals to ever attack America. Your question is the one everyone should ask. If they weren’t running a sting operation, what were they doing?

Maybe they were arming revolutionaries to rise up in support of the Occupy terrorists.


21 posted on 10/10/2011 6:48:19 PM PDT by pallis
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To: BigBobber
It was a “Reichstag fire” style dirty trick that was supposed to convince congress to reinstate the “assault weapon” ban.

The AWB is small potatoes compared to Zero foisting the UN Small Arms Treaty, which has legal leverage sufficient effectively to annul the Second Amendment itself. That plus arming a paramilitary army of terrorists is what is at stake here.

See tag line.

22 posted on 10/10/2011 6:59:02 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: Kaslin

“Like someone said the other day on FOX News, Holder is either lying or he is incompetent.”

Why not both?


23 posted on 10/10/2011 6:59:26 PM PDT by ZirconEncrustedTweezers (I've tried to think like a liberal, but I can't get my head far enough up my behind...)
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To: Kaslin

Product of public education: can’t read?


24 posted on 10/10/2011 7:11:29 PM PDT by LiteKeeper ("Who is John Galt?")
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To: rolling_stone
Let there be no doubt, Hillary is in this way past her cankles.

— has sources claiming “Obama’s man in the State Department,” (former) Deputy Secretary of State Jim Steinberg, was the State Department operative who helped Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and the Department of Justice Deputy Attorney General David Ogden formulate the strategy that led to the tactics used in Operation Fast and Furious.

Steinberg took office as Deputy Secretary of State on January 28, 2009

A little more than two years later, it was announced that Steinberg's time in the Obama State Department was over. From the New York Times, 30 March 2011:

Mrs. Clinton heaped praise on Mr. Steinberg, describing him as an “indispensable” partner. “On every foreign policy challenge, big and small, he has helped formulate our policy and oversee its execution,” she wrote. Mr. Steinberg, she said, played “Oscar to Jack Lew’s Felix,” referring to Jacob J. Lew, her other deputy, who left earlier this year to become Mr. Obama’s budget director.

Sipsey Street Exclusive: "In at the beginning." The State Department & the Gunwalker Scandal.

25 posted on 10/10/2011 7:12:59 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks Kaslin.
If the AG doesn't read memos, maybe he can read a subpoena.

26 posted on 10/10/2011 7:24:45 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Lurker
Under the laws of all 50 States AND the Federal Government Eric Holder is an accomplice to the murders of at least 200 Mexican citizens and at least 1 US Federal Agent.

Is that the "Felony Murder" statute where if you are involved in a felony that results in the murder of a person, even if you're not directly involved in the murder, you're still held culpable for the murder? Is international arms trafficking a felony?

Mark

27 posted on 10/10/2011 7:25:59 PM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: TigersEye

There is such an exquisite irony if Hillary is involved given her participation in the Watergate Investigations, that, if Issa proceeds correctly, could lead to the downfall of some seriously long-term Marxists players.


28 posted on 10/10/2011 7:30:32 PM PDT by Hoosier-Daddy ( "It does no good to be a super power if you have to worry what the neighbors think." BuffaloJack)
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To: Kaslin
Like someone said the other day on FOX News, Holder is either lying or he is incompetent

Or option "C," lying AND incompetent. We know he's corrupt. Just look at his work for Clinton on the FALN and Marc Rich pardons.

Mark

29 posted on 10/10/2011 7:33:53 PM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: Kaslin
Like someone said the other day on FOX News, Holder is either lying or he is incompetent

And they're not mutually exclusive, either!

30 posted on 10/10/2011 7:36:00 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (So much stress was put on Bush's Fault that it finally let go, magnitude 6)
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To: GOPJ

Maybe something to do with this:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/07/19/ray-walser-hezbollah-mexico-jamel-nasr-middle-east-mexico-tijuana/

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/hizballah-setting-up-operations-in-mexico-near-border.html


31 posted on 10/10/2011 7:36:20 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: Lurker

No way that Holder will ever be extradited. Remember that Obama can always pardon him if necessary. The best we can hope for probably is that this will help deny Obama a second term. If he was in danger of being indicted after leaving office, he could resign one hour before the end of his term and have Joe Biden give him a pardon. January 20, 2013: the Day of Three Presidents?


32 posted on 10/10/2011 7:51:40 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Kaslin

I sure hope there are enough prison cells vacant for the DC crowd!


33 posted on 10/10/2011 7:57:01 PM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: Verginius Rufus
Remember that Obama can always pardon him if necessary.

Read up on the power of the Presidential pardon. It's only for Federal crimes, not State crimes or crimes committed in foreign countries. He can not pardon Holder if he's extradited to Mexico.

34 posted on 10/10/2011 8:00:16 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: TigersEye

How do you read an email “cover to cover”?


35 posted on 10/10/2011 8:13:42 PM PDT by SERKIT ("Blazing Saddles" explains it all......)
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To: Hoosier-Daddy

That would be superb karma.


36 posted on 10/10/2011 8:17:58 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: SERKIT

Good catch! He’s not going to hold up well under further questioning.


37 posted on 10/10/2011 8:20:09 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

Wednesday, June 22, 2011
Media & Congress Still Missing the Big Legal Point of the Gunwalker Scandal: it was a conspiracy to illegally export weapons to a foreign country.

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/06/media-congress-still-missing-big-legal.html


38 posted on 10/10/2011 8:20:23 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Nachum; markomalley; Clairity; Carlucci; grey_whiskers; meyer; WL-law; Para-Ord.45; ...

Ping


39 posted on 10/10/2011 8:25:33 PM PDT by raptor22 (Join me on Twitter @gerfingerpoken)
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To: rolling_stone

Not just a foreign country, or a political faction, but multiple organized crime syndicates. The only thing I can think of as an historical comparison is state sponsored terrorism.


40 posted on 10/10/2011 8:25:52 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Nachum; markomalley; Clairity; Carlucci; grey_whiskers; meyer; WL-law; Para-Ord.45; ...

Ping


41 posted on 10/10/2011 8:26:23 PM PDT by raptor22 (Join me on Twitter @gerfingerpoken)
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To: Verginius Rufus

http://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardon_instructions.htm

http://watergate.info/ford/pardon.shtml

Article 2 - The Executive Branch
Section 2 - Civilian Power Over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.


42 posted on 10/10/2011 8:30:57 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Kaslin

Anybody here remember Alberto Gonzales? Can you imagine what they would have done to him for this kind of thing? They hauled him out to testify for hours on end in front of Congress and the MSM. He was questioned in relation to the appointment of Federal Judges which was clearly the perogative of the Executive branch.

Anybody?

43 posted on 10/10/2011 8:36:49 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: Lurker
I don't think Mexico would try to extradite Holder. Anyway shouldn't we be trying to find out how much Obama was personally involved in creating the whole Fast and Furious business? Would Holder have done this all by himself? Just going for Holder would be as if in 1973 the people wanting answers to Watergate would be satisfied with the scalp of John W. Dean.

What did the President know and when did he know it?

44 posted on 10/10/2011 9:11:25 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Kaslin
Can anyone help me understand whether the guns Holder released did contain full autos? None of the reports I've seen seem to be clear on this and it would make a huge difference in terms of the legalities the BATF circumvented. Why the ambiguity on this, why are the weapons never fully described in the standard reporting?
45 posted on 10/10/2011 9:40:24 PM PDT by Jay Santos CP ("Idiocracy"... It's no longer just a movie.)
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To: Kaslin
FWIW...

I was curious to see how the Dems were handling this, and decided to lurk at DU. I went into the “Guns” discussion group and opened about half a dozen F&F threads.

They are not happy with Holder at all. Almost no one was defending him. Their descriptions of him are similar to many freepers. They don't really believe he is incompetent...they think he's a liar and the program was a really idiotic idea. The guy is toast if the Dems want him gone...and they do.

And there were only a few references to the Bush “Wide Receiver” program, but some commented that if it was a bad idea, why didn't Obama/Holder stop it instead of expanding it? They took no comfort in the possibility that they could spread the blame.

They're very worried that it's cranking up in the election cycle, and what it would do to Obama.

Holder is losing friends quickly. He helped murder people. That needs to be taken into consideration when compared to the jail time Scooter Libby got for merely getting snared in a prosecutorial trap.

46 posted on 10/10/2011 10:31:05 PM PDT by Tex-Con-Man
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To: TigersEye

I think there’s going to be a lot of superb karma.


47 posted on 10/10/2011 10:55:31 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: Tex-Con-Man

Hmm, that is very interesting


48 posted on 10/11/2011 3:37:39 AM PDT by Kaslin (Acronym for OBAMA: One Big Ass Mistake America)
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To: Carry_Okie
Obama still has a year and a few days to follow through on disarming American's. Then I see him becoming the leader of the UN in the fight against for shar'ia law and a Qur'an in every home. He'd be a hero fighting against American injustices and realized for the "enlightened " being he is that finally took a chainsaw to America's arrogance and her constitution. Queen Michelle couldn't be more proud. Presently, Obama remains silent whilst his off-the-Wall Street cronies tackle capitalisim. Soon we'll need a fingerprint scanner and an ID to buy ammo.
49 posted on 10/11/2011 4:58:53 AM PDT by Karliner ("That hound don't hunt. : Herman Cain. Jeremiah 29:11, Romans 8:28, Deut 6:4, Isa 14:1)
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To: Kaslin

“I do not and cannot read them from cover to cover,”

Sounds like he’s using his own bureaucracy as an excuse.
Of course he’s lying, he can say what he wants. Will Obama
be able to get another AG confirmed or will it be czar time?
Or will Biden be the guy appointing the next AG/czar?


50 posted on 10/11/2011 5:59:08 AM PDT by Slambat (The right to keep and bear arms. Anything one man can carry, drive or pull.)
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