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DOJ: Feds Can Tell Church Who Its Ministers Will Be
Townhall ^ | 10/12/2011 | Terry Jeffrey

Posted on 10/12/2011 11:27:49 AM PDT by Dr. White

In yet another stunning attack on freedom of religion, President Barack Obama's Justice Department asked the Supreme Court last week to give the federal government the power to tell a church who its ministers will be.

The case involves a former teacher at Lutheran school, who along with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission is pushing a claim that a Lutheran congregation should be forced to restore her ministry position.

Americans United for Separation of Church and State and American Atheists, Inc. have filed briefs siding with the Obama administration against the church.

The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints, the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations, and the American Center for Law and Justice are among those who have filed briefs supporting the Lutherans.

In 1999, the Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School in Redford, Mich., hired Cheryl Perich to be a lay teacher on a one-year contract in its kindergarten.

The next year, Perich became a "called" teacher at the school after she became a commissioned minister in the church.

"To receive a call, a candidate must be selected by a local church congregation," said a brief the church submitted to the Supreme Court that was prepared by lawyers at the Beckett Fund for Religious Liberty and Douglas Laycock of the University of Virginia Law School.

"At Hosanna-Tabor, the school board typically presents a choice of candidates to the congregation, and after prayerfully considering the candidates, the congregation extends a call via congregational vote," the brief said. "Once the call has been accepted, the candidate is installed in office via the public rite of 'commissioning,' and is recognized as a 'Minister of Religion, Commissioned' -- also known as a 'commissioned minister.'"

As a minister in the school, Perich taught religious classes, led students in prayer and performed other religious tasks. She was also expected to integrate the teaching of the Lutheran faith into all so-called "secular" classes, including math, science, social studies and art.

In 2004, Perich was diagnosed with narcolepsy and was unable to teach the fall semester. In January 2005, when she could not return, the school hired another teacher to take her place during the spring.

Later that month, according to a brief filed by the Justice Department's Office of the Solicitor General, Perich informed the school's principal, Stacey Hoeft, via email that she would be able to return to work the following month.

The principal informed her they had already hired a replacement teacher for the rest of the year.

The congregation then voted to ask Perich for a "peaceful release from her call."

"'Peaceful release' is a religious act by which a congregation and a called minister agree to release one another from the mutual obligations of the call," says the brief submitted by the church. "Peaceful releases are common, and they leave the called minister in good standing and eligible for a new call."

Perich declined to be peacefully released. In late February, she showed up at the school and met with Principal Hoeft.

"Later that day, Perich told Hoeft that if she were not reinstated, she would sue the church," said the church's brief. "Hoeft immediately asked Perich if that were what she really meant, because a lawsuit would clearly violate the church's conflict resolution policy applicable to called employees. Perich repeated the threat."

The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod explained this teaching in its own brief: "St. Paul teaches in his first letter to the Corinthians that Christians should generally resolve their disputes internally without going to the secular courts for relief." For this reason, the church has developed procedures for settling internal disputes.

A few weeks after the meeting between Perich and Hoeft, the Hosanna-Tabor congregation voted to "rescind Perich's call" because she had threatened to sue the church contrary to the church's teaching.

"The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission filed a complaint against the church under the Americans With Disabilities Act, alleging a single count of retaliation," says the church's brief. "Perich intervened, alleging the same retaliation claim and adding a retaliation claim under state law. Neither complaint alleges disability discrimination. Both complaints request an order reinstating Perich to her former position as a commissioned minister, together with back pay, compensatory damages, punitive damages, and injunctive relief ordering new 'policies, practices, and programs' at the church."

The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod told the court in its brief that its views on the ministry and the settlement of disputes may not be "widely shared" or "widely understood." "But," the church said, "they have been the views of orthodox Lutherans for centuries."

Acting Deputy Solicitor General Leondra Kruger told the court, during oral arguments, that the federal government should be able to trump the church on these decisions.

"Their submission is that the hiring and firing decisions with respect to parochial school teachers and with respect to priests is categorically off limits," said Kruger. "And we think that that is a rule that is insufficiently attentive to the relative public and private interests at stake, interests that this court has repeatedly recognized are important in determining freedom of association claims."

Kruger contended this did not mean the government could order the Catholic Church to ordain female priests. But, even then, according to her argument, it would be a matter of the government weighing "the relative public and private interests at stake."

What is at stake is the First Amendment and the religious freedom of all Americans.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: atheist; atheists; catholic; catholics; christian; christianpersecution; churchstate; democrats; doj; dojisajoke; eeoc; firstamendment; freedomofreligion; govtabuse; holder; jeffrey; lcms; liberalfascism; liberalhypocrisy; liberals; lping; lutheran; lutheranism; missourisynod; obama; priest; priests; religiousfreedom; religiousliberty; religiouspersecution; romancatholic; romancatholicism; romancatholics; supremecourt; terryjeffrey; tyranny; waronliberty
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To: TBP

The idea of gay preachers is an on-going thing in my denomination. A lawyer friend at church thinks that the discussion will be moot as someday the church will be forced to allow anyone to be a preacher.

Although I just read where the courts did okay World Vision’s hiring of only christians here in the U.S. (I think WV offices in other countries have always had lots of local employees regardless of religion).


41 posted on 10/12/2011 1:46:03 PM PDT by 21twelve (Obama Recreating the New Deal: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts)
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To: Dr. White

You all are missing the point here. It is my belief that the real issue is over the fact that as a “called” ministry leader, she can claim a housing deduction under IRS guidelines. The IRS rules (Publication #517) state that those who are “ordained, licensed or commissioned” can be called “ministers” and those are the folks who can be granted housing allowances. For a teacher in a religious school, that can make a huge difference in how much they can take home in their paychecks. JMHO...


42 posted on 10/12/2011 1:57:31 PM PDT by jettester (I got paid to break 'em - not fly 'em)
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To: Dr. White

It looks like Perich has a bigger problem than narcolepsy.

The ADA was an atrocious law that never should have been passed into law as it was. In order to get rights for truly disabled, they had to compromise on too many other issues. A self-declared alcoholic or drug addict is, by government fiat, ‘disabled’ in the same category as one who cannot see or walk. And, as such, they are entitled to very generous government benefits, cash and medical, that frees them up to continue their addiction.


43 posted on 10/12/2011 1:59:41 PM PDT by EDINVA ( Jimmy McMillan '12: because RENT'S, TOO DAMN HIGH)
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To: G Larry

If it does uphold this Nazi position (remember Hitler thought he could control the German church as well) prepare for the Confessing church — and for screams in the night when the Army 0 says he needed.


44 posted on 10/12/2011 2:00:40 PM PDT by StonyBurk (ring)
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To: chris37

...where you don’t have to worry whether or not all the priests are sleeper agents for the FSB.


45 posted on 10/12/2011 2:53:05 PM PDT by yup2394871293
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To: onedoug
Can they appoint rabbis and imams too?

Yes they can! But only to mosques and synagogues respectively. :)


46 posted on 10/12/2011 2:54:02 PM PDT by magooey (The Mandate of Heaven resides in the hearts of men.)
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To: Dr. White

PC insanity.


47 posted on 10/12/2011 2:54:33 PM PDT by yup2394871293
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To: Mr. Lucky
“The ministry of an LCMS teacher is limited to his or her duties as a teacher, much as, say, the duties of an extraordinary minister in the Catholic Church is limited to assisting in distribution of the communion host.”

If that is the case, it would be questionable as to whether she would qualify as a minister or clergy under the federal tax law. The law requires that the person be able to perform “substantially all” of the duties of the ordained clergy. The test case was a Jewish Cantor who won the case that he was a rabbi under fed. tax law. The key is in one’s ability to deliver sacraments.

I don't agree with all the various church rules, but respect their right to have them as long as they do not harm others. I have worked with most of the major denominations and quite a few of the independent and even a few fringe groups. You can't imagine some of the legalistic rules that exist. Some Christian groups resemble the Islamic groups in their suppression of women.

48 posted on 10/12/2011 3:51:42 PM PDT by tired&retired
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To: jettester

“The IRS rules (Publication #517) state that those who are “ordained, licensed or commissioned” can be called “ministers” and those are the folks who can be granted housing allowances.”

Exactly. That’s out of code section 107. Teacher’s normally do not qualify. It’s a facts and circumstances thing rather than a title. I have handled IRS cases where the clergy was a university professor and we still got away with it. I’ve also won by calling the teachers “Youth Ministers.” Semantics, but it makes the substance look better.


49 posted on 10/12/2011 3:57:10 PM PDT by tired&retired
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To: tired&retired
You can't imagine some of the legalistic rules that exist. Some Christian groups resemble the Islamic groups in their suppression of women.

In what specific ways do you assert that to be so?

50 posted on 10/12/2011 4:20:55 PM PDT by Dr. White
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To: Abathar; Abcdefg; Abram; Abundy; albertp; Alexander Rubin; Allosaurs_r_us; amchugh; ...



Libertarian ping! Click here to get added or here to be removed or post a message here!

51 posted on 10/12/2011 4:30:00 PM PDT by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master. -- Sallust)
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To: Dr. White
Not for the Catholic Church -- Scripture included!

II. Peter has the Keys of Authority over the Earthly Kingdom, the Church

2 Sam. 7:16; Psalm 89:3-4; 1 Chron.17:12,14 - God promises to establish the Davidic kingdom forever on earth.

Matt. 1:1 - Matthew clearly establishes this tie of David to Jesus. Jesus is the new King of the new House of David, and the King will assign a chief steward to rule over the house while the King is in heaven.

Luke 1:32 - the archangel Gabriel announces to Mary that her Son would be given "the throne of His father David."

Matt. 16:19 - Jesus gives Peter the "keys of the kingdom of heaven." While most Protestants argue that the kingdom of heaven Jesus was talking about is the eternal state of glory (as if Peter is up in heaven letting people in), the kingdom of heaven Jesus is speaking of actually refers to the Church on earth. In using the term "keys," Jesus was referencing Isaiah 22 (which is the only place in the Bible where keys are used in the context of a kingdom).

Isaiah 22:22 - in the old Davidic kingdom, there were royal ministers who conducted the liturgical worship and bound the people in teaching and doctrine. But there was also a Prime Minister or chief steward of the kingdom who held the keys. Jesus gives Peter these keys to His earthly kingdom, the Church. This representative has decision-making authority over the people - when he shuts, no one opens. See also Job 12:14.

Rev. 1:18; 3:7; 9:1; 20:1 - Jesus' "keys" undeniably represent authority. By using the word "keys," Jesus gives Peter authority on earth over the new Davidic kingdom, and this was not seriously questioned by anyone until the Protestant reformation 1,500 years later after Peter’s investiture.

Matt. 16:19 - whatever Peter binds or looses on earth is bound or loosed in heaven / when the Prime Minister to the King opens, no one shuts. This "binding and loosing" authority allows the keeper of the keys to establish "halakah," or rules of conduct for the members of the kingdom he serves.  Peter's "keys" fit into the "gates" of Hades which also represent Peter’s pastoral authority over souls.

Matt. 23:2-4 - the "binding and loosing" terminology used by Jesus was understood by the Jewish people. For example, Jesus said that the Pharisees "bind" heavy burdens but won't move ("loose") them with their fingers. Peter and the apostles have the new binding and loosing authority over the Church of the New Covenant.

Matt. 13:24-52 -Jesus comparing the kingdom of heaven to a field, a mustard seed, leaven, and a net demonstrate that the kingdom Jesus is talking about is the universal Church on earth, not the eternal state of glory. Therefore, the keys to the "kingdom of heaven" refers to the authority over the earthly Church.

Matt. 25:1-2 - Jesus comparing the kingdom of heaven to ten maidens, five of whom were foolish, further shows that the kingdom is the Church on earth. This kingdom cannot refer to the heavenly kingdom because there are no fools in heaven!

Mark 4:26-32 - again, the "kingdom of God" is like the seed which grows and develops. The heavenly kingdom is eternal, so the kingdom to which Peter holds the keys of authority is the earthly Church.

Luke 9:27 - Jesus says that there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the "kingdom of God." This kingdom refers to the earthly kingdom of Christ, which Jesus established by His death and resurrection on earth.

Luke 13:19-20 - again, Jesus says the kingdom of God is like a mustard seed which grew into a tree. This refers to the earthly Church which develops over time, from an acorn to an oak tree (not the heavenly state of glory which is boundless and infinite).

Matt 12:28; Mark 1:15; Luke 11:20; 17:21 - these verses provide more examples of the " kingdom of God" as the kingdom on earth which is in our midst.

1 Chron. 28:5 - Solomon sits on the throne of the kingdom of the Lord. This shows that the "kingdom of God" usually means an earthly kingdom.

1 Chron. 29:23 - Solomon sits on the throne of the Lord as king in place of King David. The throne of God refers to the earthly kingdom.

Matt. 16:19 - Peter holds keys to this new Davidic kingdom and rules while the real King of David (Jesus) is in heaven.

Luke 12:41-42 - when Peter asks Jesus if the parable of the master and the kingdom was meant just for the apostles or for all people, Jesus rhetorically confirms to Peter that Peter is the chief steward over the Master's household of God. "Who then, (Peter) is that faithful and wise steward whom his master will make ruler over His household..?"

Ezek. 37:24-25 - David shall be king over them forever and they will have one shepherd. Jesus is our King, and Peter is our earthly shepherd.

 

III. Peter's Keys and Papal Succession

Jer. 33:17 - Jeremiah prophesies that David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the earthly House of Israel. Either this is a false prophecy, or David has a successor of representatives throughout history.

Dan. 2:44 - Daniel prophesies an earthly kingdom that will never be destroyed. Either this is a false prophecy, or the earthly kingdom requires succession.

Isa. 22:20 - in the old Davidic kingdom, Eliakim succeeds Shebna as the chief steward of the household of God. The kingdom employs a mechanism of dynastic succession. King David was dead for centuries, but his kingdom is preserved through a succession of representatives.

Isa. 22:19 - Shebna is described as having an "office" and a "station." An office, in order for it to be an office, has successors. In order for an earthly kingdom to last, a succession of representatives is required. This was the case in the Old Covenant kingdom, and it is the case in the New Covenant kingdom which fulfills the Old Covenant. Jesus our King is in heaven, but He has appointed a chief steward over His household with a plan for a succession of representatives.

Isa. 22:21 - Eliakim is called “father” or “papa” of God's people. The word Pope used by Catholics to describe the chief steward of the earthly kingdom simply means papa or father in Italian. This is why Catholics call the leader of the Church "Pope." The Pope is the father of God's people, the chief steward of the earthly kingdom and Christ's representative on earth.

Isa. 22:22 - we see that the keys of the kingdom pass from Shebna to Eliakim. Thus, the keys are used not only as a symbol of authority, but also to facilitate succession. The keys of Christ's kingdom have passed from Peter to Linus all the way to our current Pope with an unbroken lineage for almost 2,000 years.

Acts 1:20 - we see in the early Church that successors are immediately chosen for the apostles' offices. Just as the Church replaced Judas, it also replaced Peter with a successor after Peter's death.

John 21:15-17; Luke 22:31-32 - Jesus' creation of Peter's office as chief shepherd with the keys passed to Linus, Cletus, Clement I, all the way to our current Holy Father.

Matt. 23:2 - this shows that the Jews understood the importance of succession to the chair and its attendant authority. Here, Jesus respects Moses' seat ("cathedra") of authority which was preserved by succession. In the Church, Peter's seat is called the "cathedra," and when Peter's successor speaks officially on a matter of faith or morals, it may rise to the level of an "ex cathedra" (from the chair) teaching.

Eph. 3:21 - this divine word tells us that Jesus Christ's Church will exist in all generations. Only the Catholic Church can prove by succession such existence. Our Protestant brothers and sisters become uncomfortable with this passage because it requires them to look for a Church that has existed for over 2,000 years. This means that all the other Christian denominations (some of which have been around even less than one year!) cannot be the church that Christ built upon the rock of Peter.

 


52 posted on 10/12/2011 4:35:27 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Dr. White
The Keys of the Kingdom are not in Obama's hands!

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

   

1) Authority (έξουσία)

John 14:12-14 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do: because I go unto my father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If yee shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

   

2) Power (δύναμις)

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

   

3) Dominion (κυριότης)

Genesis 1:26-28 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God Created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him: male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

   
 

Psalms 8:6-9 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!


53 posted on 10/12/2011 4:37:50 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Mr. Lucky; tired&retired

I am wondering about the use of the term “minister” here. I had an old pastor leave the WELS and coloqui with the LC-MS because he disagreed with the WELS position on who was a minister. I don’t think, strictly speaking, her position in the LC-MS is a ministerial one, although, in the WELS they would consider it to be.


54 posted on 10/12/2011 4:55:32 PM PDT by stayathomemom (Beware of kittens modifying your posts.)
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To: Dr. White
Americans United for Separation of Church and State and American Atheists, Inc. have filed briefs siding with the Obama administration against the church.

So if you're a liberal "Separation of Church and State" means that the State must have the power to decide who has positions of responsibility within the Church. Oh.....kay [facepalm]

55 posted on 10/12/2011 5:23:58 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: onedoug
Can they appoint rabbis and imams too?

Almost. A panel of imams [moderate, we swear!] will appoint the rabbis.

56 posted on 10/12/2011 5:29:01 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: sappy
US Govt. out of my rectory.

Rectory? Damn near killdory!

57 posted on 10/12/2011 5:31:22 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: aberaussie; Aeronaut; aliquando; AlternateViewpoint; AnalogReigns; Archie Bunker on steroids; ...


Lutheran (LC-MS) Ping!

Be rooted in Christ!

58 posted on 10/12/2011 6:33:12 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini)
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To: lightman

Thank you. I will share this with my LCMS friends and relatives.


59 posted on 10/12/2011 7:17:38 PM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: chris37

Lots of hot broads in the Ukraine and other parts, not a bad place to spend June/July when retired.


60 posted on 10/12/2011 7:24:30 PM PDT by Rome2000 (OBAMA IS A COMMUNIST CRYPTO-MUSLIM)
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