Posted on 10/20/2011 9:24:15 AM PDT by Kaslin
Darrell Issa investigates the rumored third gun present at ATF Agent Bryan Terry's murder.
A war within a war appears to have broken out regarding allegations of a third weapon at the scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry’s murder.
The Department of Justice claims that only two semi-automatic AK-pattern rifles were recovered at the scene of the shootout between a Border Patrol tactical team and armed Mexican criminals that night in the Arizona desert. House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-CA) ruffled feathers within the DOJ and with Democrats on his committee by repeating allegations of a third weapon at the scene, and by announcing plans to question the FBI about the investigation of Agent Terry’s death.
Border Patrol agents had mentioned a third weapon to Agent Terry’s family. CBS News obtained audiotape of a conversation between an ATF agent who was part of Operation Fast and Furious and the dealer who sold weapons under ATF direction to cartel smugglers. The blunt conversation is very hard to spin:
Agent: Well there was two.
Dealer: There’s three weapons.
Agent: There’s three weapons.
Dealer: I know that.
Agent: And yes, there’s serial numbers for all three.
Dealer: That’s correct.
Agent: Two of them came from this store.
Dealer: I understand that.
Agent: There’s an SKS that I don’t think came from … Dallas or Texas or something like that.
Dealer: I know. talking about the AK’s –
Agent: The two AK’s came from this store.
Dealer: I know that.
Agent: OK.
Dealer: I did the godd***ed trace –
Agent: Third weapon is the SKS has nothing to do with it.
Dealer: That didn’t come from me.
Agent: No and there is — that’s my knowledge. And I spoke to someone who would know those are the only ones they have. So this is the agent who’s working the case, all I can go by is what she told me.
Dallas has long been alleged to be the site of another major gunwalking operation running weapons to the cartel, one of 10 claimed gunwalking operations in five states. The FBI’s statement on the allegation released Monday seems definitive:
The FBI has made clear that reports of a third gun recovered from the perpetrators at the scene of Agent Terry’s murder are false.
The FBI is very careful with their words: they declare there was not a third gun recovered a) “from the perpetrators,” b) “at the scene of Agent Terry’s murder.”
An inference one could make from the careful phrasing: if there was a third weapon, it was not recovered in direct proximity to one of the Mexican criminals involved in the crime, and it was more than likely dropped as the suspects fled the scene — which is also what allegedly happened with both of the AK-pattern rifles used in the shootout. They were recovered a short distance away.
If the alleged third weapon was an SKS fired by the criminals at the crime scene as ATF agents have indicated, then its absence can be verified if the FBI didn’t carefully sanitize the crime scene. The FBI would have collected and cataloged all evidence at the crime scene, including the shell casings recovered and their precise location. A location map of the recovered casings help tell the story of who fired what and when, and can help track the movements of the shooter.
Shell casings can also be used to “fingerprint” weapons based upon the marks left by the weapon’s firing pin, chamber, and extractor. While less precise than matching a bullet to the rifling of a barrel, the casings recovered at the crime scene will tell us what kind of weapons were used not just by their caliber (SKS and AK-pattern rifles are both chambered to fire 7.62×39 ammunition), but by the marks left on the shell casings themselves. If congressional investigators are sharp, they’ll subpoena every bit of information about the shell casings at the Terry murder scene. If casings consistent with the extractor markings of an SKS can been identified, then the FBI and DOJ are in serious trouble.
Other ATF communications make the DOJ’s claim that there was no third weapon even more suspect:
In one, an intelligence analyst writes that by 7:45 p.m. — about 21 hours after the shooting — she had successfully traced two weapons at the scene, and is now “researching the trace status of firearms recovered earlier today by the FBI.”
In another email, ATF-Phoenix Deputy Director George Gillett asks: “Are those two (AK-47s) in addition to the gun already recovered this morning?”
The DOJ seems once again to be blocking reasonable inquires into their own conflicting stories, and attacking the investigators.
Though Operation Fast and Furious is now in it’s tenth month, the Obama administration has made no attempt to hold the Departments of Justice, Homeland Security, State, or Treasury to account for the government’s gun trafficking conspiracy.
We still don’t know:
It appears that the primary mission of Eric Holder’s Department of Justice is to insulate President Obama’s political appointees from the consequences of their actions, and to obstruct the pursuit of justice by Congress as much as possible.
Some people should already be in jail over this.
Ping for some interesting reading...
The third gun, probably, indicated further illegal activity by these criminal Obama appointees, perhaps even more corrupt than this one.
10 months and the White House has not come forth with information of who instigated the FAST & FURIOUS fiasco. That points to only one conclusion. It was them. This was obviously a cabinet level political decision with the socialist democrats idealogical fingerprints all over it. No wonder they are acting like the three SEE NO EVIL, HEAR NO EVIL SPEAK NO EVIL, monkeys. This was a top down not bottom up ploy.
Let me get this straight; the position of the 0bama administration and the FBI is that Brian Terry’s death only counts if there were three F&F guns used at the scene where he was murdered?
Ah Ha!
I’ve got it now:
Of course there were only 2 Weapons found at the site - when one defines said weapons as AK47 type weapons. An SKS has NOTHING to do with an AK47 - other than it fires the same calibre round.
My lord, this is just like the parsing Clinton did when defining “is”.
Yeah. Is this an important inconsistency, (and) or a diversionary cul-de-sac?
Forest for the trees?
Sure but, but, look at the HIPPIES! Look at the SMELLY HIPPIES!
Two logical possibilities -
1. Deny and obscure as much as possible. Give media “he said/she said” stories - about “this is all about some weird third gun” - to confuse the issue in the public’s mind.
To be expected and SOP for this government.
2. Third weapon links perps to further crimes - and has been removed from evidence. I would look for unsolved SKS is weapon cases - or “solved” cases without weapons.
Note that people doing action 1 may bot understand the real reason is 2.
The whole program is an outrage - and most certainly goes to the top. No law enforcement in their right mind would try this. Conspiracy too complex - and cover up WAY too broad. Other agencies wold be all too happy to catch the “rogue agents”.
Only possibility for that - would be some local guys - making small plays - trying to do the old “fireman starts a fire/puts it out/becomes hero” play. But that would be extremely limited - for obvious span of control issues.
Thousands of weapons? In this weapons control environment? OF COURSE it came from the top. There is no other logical answer.
The THIRD GUN
OR someone got a real nice souvenir.
I could maybe buy it were there only a couple of hundred guns involved, but once you cross into the thousands territory you have to have the involvement of actors upstream.
Testimony was given that a known criminal obtained weapons with the submission of a NICS form 4447 that should have flagged and stopped the sales. The dealer was mandated by ATF/FBI to let the sales proceed as normal, even though he felt it was wrong.
The last paragraph from Bob Owens above tells it all:
If a third weapon was used at the site of Terry's murder, (very very likely, given the comments made by people in the original post) its importance, and the reason it is being covered up, is that it will indicate gunwalking from another, previously unproven, source and city. The plot becomes much more wide-spread than without this third weapon.
That makes sense...but why aren't the other agencies stumbling forward? Professional courtesy? Or are they all so bound up in their own webs that they are cursing getting caught up in the other bungle?
Gunwalker and Fast & Furious Updates: Holder, DOJ, FBI, Operation Castaway, ATFEmail Confirms ‘Gunwalker’ Known Throughout Justice Department The October 27, 2009 email from ATF Phoenix Field Division Special Agent in Charge (SAC) William Newell regarded a Southwest Border Strategy Group meeting that focused on Fast and Furious. It contained a laundry list of high ranking Justice Department officials that attended the meeting, including:
* Assistant Attorney General (Criminal Division) Lanny Breuer, * Kenneth Melson, Acting Director, ATF * William Hoover, Acting Deputy Director, ATF * Michele Leonhart, Administrator, DEA * Robert Mueller, Director FBI
Four other Justice Department directors or their representatives came from the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force (OCDETF), Bureau of Prisons (BOP), U.S. Marshals Service (USMS), and the Executive Office for United States Attorneys (EOUSA). The chair of the Attorney Generals Advisory Committee (AGAC) also attended the session. Their names were redacted in the released document. U.S. attorneys for all four southwest border states also attended...
As TigersEye points out, they’ve all been involved at one point, or level, or another. And when it gets to this level, and this broad an involvement, we’ve only seen the unseemly surface of what’s there to be had in terms of incriminating evidence. If they’re this incompetent in running a major yet illegal operation, they’ll be this incompetent in managing a good cover up.
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