Posted on 11/02/2011 8:30:47 PM PDT by DogByte6RER
Classic movie.
What if Robert E Lee had adopted the Gatling Gun after Gettysburg?
I hated the name of the carrier, obviously. But the story is fantastic. You just have to put the name aside and enjoy the adventure. It’s worth it.
“The endless harems...”
The endless venereal diseases...
“He would also have to be able to manipulate Roman religion, supersticions, etc.”
Don’t forget folks. The MEU’s officers will include ACADEMY-TRAINED people, who would be fairly familiar with this period’s history, it’s politics, and ROTC Officers with very specific skill-sets, and technical engineering.
They would know what is possible, and be able to adapt local materials in to say, steam engines, over the long term.
Gunpowder would be easily made from local resources.
And the 15 day internal load of an MEU would translate in to MONTHS, or even years, against such a low-tech adversary.
You beat me by about 20 minutes on posting the links to the free Baen books. :-) I should have read the thread all the way to the end.
The Romans learned all they needed to know about democracy from the Greeks. That’s why they created a Republic.
And, at different times, Romans were terrified by elephants, triremes, chariots and other ancient nasties. They adapted, adopted, improvised and conquered.
There was a great book by one of the Conquistadors themselves about the war-Bernal Diaz Del Castillo-called “The Conquest of New Spain”. Phenomenal read by one of the guys in the trenches. True story-he was retired in present day Guatemala living the life when a ship came in from Spain. He saw a book about the conquest by someone who wasn’t there. He became furious because it was wholly inaccurate so he spent several years penning the book to set it straight. He apologizes in the forward to the audience for being an uneducated grunt and then proceeds to write a great book.
Actually, their battle plan relied on discipline—keeping the phalanx intact and moving into close quarters with their short stabbing swords.
This tactic usually worked well against undisciplined barbarians. But I wonder how the discipline would hold when several rows of the phalanx were taken out with one shot from a mile away by a Barret .50?
You’re confusing the Romans with the Greeks. The Romans didn’t use the phalanx. the Greeks [and later the Macedonians] did. The Romans used the triplex acies and the maniuplar/cohort formation [much more maneuverability]. and before the gladii came out, they softened you up with the pilae [javelins].
The difference? Cynochepalis, where the Romans destroyed the phalanx army of Philip VI of Macedon, and acquired Greece.
You and I agree. The Marines avoid pitched battles (too fuel wasteful). They laager up in a region that is defensible by modern arms, and go into the tool making and troop recruiting business. The Romans best chance is to provoke them into big battles, where the Marines run out of fuel like the panzers in the Battle of the Bulge.
Instead, the Marines play God like the Americans after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Let the world wonder how many dozens more of those bombs we had ready to destroy any city at one blow. The Marines do some splashy demo runs to demonstrate their awesome power, while hiding its weaknesses, such as it’s shortages of fuel, ordnance etc.
But if the could “buy” ten years as top dogs in some nice redoubt, they would be making crude guns and cannons and gunpowder.
I agree.
Have you read Aztec by Gary Jennings?
I agree, the marines could go directly into Rome and take it over or level it.
They could probably do this with minimal resistance, even if the Romans could alert an army they were coming, it’s doubtful an army could even move fast enough to stay up with a modern marine unit.
They would walk in unopposed.
In terms of the initial question, the Marines win easily. The shock value of crude gunpowder in the middle ages was signifant. The firepower, mech, aircraft, and artillery in a MEU would be godlike to the Romans.
In essence, they'd become a super Praetorian guard that would rarely have to fire weapons after a couple of quickie encounters. Aimed fire taking out all centurions, tribunes, etc. at a few hundred meters would be impressive as well and would shatter a legion. Snipers using night vision taking out rebellious consuls, etc. None of that would require much ammo. A couple volleys of artillery fire would shatter a legion.
Romantic legends aside, virtually any troops will break and run if they believe that certain death lies ahead. And while the Marines would know their supply of weapons and aviation fuel wasn't inexhaustable, the Romans wouldn't.
The problem for the Marines is that their technology is so advances that they couldn't possibly duplicate it. You'd need some Master Gunnery Sergeants or warrant officers with hobbies in more primitive firearms to set things up. And of course, any MEU sized unit is going to include a fair number of guys with useful civilian-type skills.
One would have to say that the Marines’ edge would be significantly greater than that enjoyed by Cortez or Pizarro. Imagine a Harrier hovering over a key assembly of Roman shot-callers, firing rockets at a few structures. They could only bow before their new god.
Most casual readers know ancient formation of spearmen/infanty by the more widely known generic name of phalanx.
From Wikipedia: “Many spear-armed troops historically fought in what might be termed phalanx-like formations. The word has come into use in common English to describe “a group of people standing, or moving forward closely together”;[2] c.f. “a phalanx of police”.[3]”
However, I take your point. :-)
Thanks for the heads-up. Added to the Amazon list for the next order, I have one incoming now.
They could probably do this with minimal resistance, even if the Romans could alert an army they were coming, it’s doubtful an army could even move fast enough to stay up with a modern marine unit.
They would walk in unopposed.
Then what? Defend Rome itself from the counterattacking legions? Largely cut-off from your fleet base?
I'd probably take Venice as my redoubt. Terrorize Rome with a Harrier pass (those puppies are LOUD). Make a heliborne demonstration. Mostly husband my resources near a secure harbor where my Amphibs can tie-up/anchor. Another possibility is Bari or possibly a base in Sicily. Sicily was alway in some state of rebellion. Always divided.
Goes the other way.
IF there isn’t a national command authority, the Romans might be able to conquer the Marines with a few mule loads of gold, a train of cute female slaves, and an offer of Roman citizenship.
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