Rome, Sweet Rome: Could a Single Marine Unit Destroy the Roman Empire?

Popular Mechanics ^ | October 31, 2011 | Alyson Sheppard

[Sherman Logan]

Why would people from a republic teach democracy to a republic?

Because by 23 BC the Republic was a republic only in name?

By this point Augustus had done the following (in American terms): made himself the permanent President and Commander-in-Chief - no more elections, disbanded the House of Representatives, converted the Senate into a rubber stamp agency, made himself the Supreme Court, declared himself the permanent head of the State Religion (actually declared himself a god, outside Italy).

And after 50 years of almost continuous civil war fought all over the empire, the vast majority of Romans and their subjects were very happy he had done so.

[Eaker]

I have no idea what your post has to do with democracy.

If nothing else you are describing a dictatorship.

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

I was just tossing out a wildcard. My point was that a single modern military unit just doesn’t have the number of rounds for guns, armor or artillery to take on a nation.

My point was the ONLY way a modern military unit could take over an ancient nation would be IF that nation surrendered to the invading “gods”. I just used the example of Cortez to give historical precedent for it.

This is all just hypothetical and I was tossing in my brain-stormed 2 cents.

[ADemocratNoMore]

> For those who might be interested, the 2 book series 1632 and 1633 are both available to read for free from the Baen Free Library.

Just spent most of the day reading 1632 - excellent read.

Thanks for the heads-up!

[tcrlaf]

Don’t forget that each MEU is equipped with a field medical unit, too.

[Grimmy]

Not just tech as the game changer.

Dietary changes over the period would also have its impact. Modern folk are taller, bigger and heavier muscled than ancient folk. That, taken along with advances in medicine and such, modern folk would look like gods to the ancients.

[Sherman Logan]

Exactly.

The Roman Republic at the time in question was no longer a republic in anything but name, much less a democracy.

Therefore the Marines would have a lot to teach them.

[Makana]

A Viet Nam era supply chain study concluded that each trigger-puller was supported by 350 people, from Combat Service Support units back through the entire supply chain.

That MEU better be fully equipped!

[1010RD]

I didn’t read the story, so I don’t know where the MEU starts off at Rome itself or far away in a province. My only point is that the Romans lost over and over again. Traditionally, and among eastern peoples including the Greeks, you’d simply surrender not wanting to endure more pain and incur more losses. The Romans didn’t do that. They put together another army and kept fighting.

The moral to the material is as 3 to 1. Being ‘game’ often wins the day.

[Eaker]

You sound as if you think a democracy is preferable to a republic.

[knews_hound]

Not bad for the price eh?

[Bruce Campbells Chin]

Not to knock our Marines, but how many of them could keep this up week after week, then be fresh enough to fight hand to hand all day, the rough equivalent of NFL football but with no timeouts or breaks?

Why would they do that and surrender all their advantages?

The strike capability of a MEU, including the air assets and artillery, would obviate the need to march to, say, Capua, and fight. You take Rome, expend some ammo smashing the first army that comes near you, and then send one jet or Cobra to pound out the forum. City father's quickly realize they can't resist, and you're in charge.

You don't need to conquer and hold the entire body. Just the head.

[CarryaBigStick]

...Then the Marines learn Latin, and teach the Romans about democracy...

Are you saying we would show them how to destroy their republic via the ballot referendum like we have? /S

[zeugma]

Just spent most of the day reading 1632 - excellent read.

I agree. Like any good drug dealer, Baen lets you have the first couple of doses for free. If you get hooked in though, there is tonsof material there in the 1632 universe.

One of my favorite scenes is where Julie Sims demonstrates her shooting abilities to the king of Sweden.  "Challenging the monarch to a duel just isn't done."

The nonfiction articles in the Gazettes really can make you think a bit about what we do, and do not know about the technology that surrounds us.

[Sherman Logan]

Tell you what. You try to state clearly what you’re trying to say, or what you think I’m trying to say, and I’ll be glad to respond to it.

For several centuries Rome was an aristocratic republic, with varying elements of democracy, and increasing elements of warlordism and corruption. By 23 BC Rome no longer had a genuinely republican form of government of any variety, aristocratic or otherwise.

[Eaker]

Tell you what.

Go back to my first post and try again.

[tanknetter]

Just spent most of the day reading 1632 - excellent read.

I've been reading the series ever since I picked up 1632 on a whim when it was first out.

With the exception of the Virginia Demarce books (which are tedious to the point of me actually throwing down "Tangled Web" several times because she wouldnt. get. to. the. point.) they're all great, fund reads.

The problem I see with them now is that Flint and Co are trying to do too much in too short of a time span. I think what's happening is he's being swayed by the hairbrained schemes of folks out on the 1632 Tech forum on Baen's Bar. The Uptimers would not be able to advance technology as fast as they are, and in some of the directions they are. Aircraft for instance. He and the other writers did a great job of showing that basic homebuilt aircraft could be built using certain types of surplus automobile engines. But they're now building hybrid fixed-wing/air cushion (ie hovercraft landing gear) aircraft. And it looks like the decidedly down-time Poles are going to be able to reverse-engineer a captured uptime APC (basically an up-armored mining truck) ?!?

It's still not as bad as what John Birmingham did with the Axis of Time trilogy. First book was ok, second book was great (Eric Flint had a substantial influence on it, and it shows) but the third fell to pieces when the US was flying laser-designator-equipped A-4 and B-52 analogues within 18-24 months of the 21c battlegroup showing up. I was pretty much ignored on Birmingham's blog when I tried to point out at the time that, sure, they could engineer and construct the airframes ... but the materials sciences for thing like the jet engines would need about 5-7 years to mature. The best fighters, for instance, they could get into production in an 18-24 month timeframe would be an optimized P-80 style aircraft using engineering tricks like swept wings, leading-edge slats, area-ruled fuselage and flying tail to compensate for what they couldn't do with the engines. Which would still be enough to completely OWN the Me-262 and effectively counter the Japanese Kamikazes.