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EEG finds consciousness in people in vegetative state
New Scientist ^ | 11/10/11 | Chelsea Whyte

Posted on 11/11/2011 4:34:27 PM PST by wagglebee

Signs of consciousness have been detected in three people previously thought to be in a vegetative state, with the help of a cheap, portable device that can be used at the bedside.

"There's a man here who technically meets all the internationally agreed criteria for being in a vegetative state, yet he can generate 200 responses [to direct commands] with his brain," says Adrian Owen of the University of Western Ontario. "Clearly this guy is not in a true vegetative state. He's probably as conscious as you or I are."

In 2005, Owen's team, used functional MRI to show consciousness in a person who was in a persistent vegetative state, also known as wakeful unconsciousness – where the body still functions but the mind is unresponsive – for the first time. However, fMRI is costly and time-consuming, so his team set about searching for simple and cost-effective solutions for making bedside diagnoses of PVS. Now, they have devised a test that uses the relatively inexpensive and widely available electroencephalogram (EEG).

(Excerpt) Read more at newscientist.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: euthanasia; faithandphilosophy; moralabsolutes; prolife
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Yet the culture of death still insists on killing people with brain injuries.
1 posted on 11/11/2011 4:34:29 PM PST by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; Salvation; 8mmMauser
Pro-Life Ping
2 posted on 11/11/2011 4:35:24 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; Sun; EternalVigilance
Pro-Life Ping
3 posted on 11/11/2011 4:36:36 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; Amos the Prophet; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


4 posted on 11/11/2011 4:37:33 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Like duuuuuh! Take that death panel and Greer (not that Terri was ever).


5 posted on 11/11/2011 4:43:27 PM PST by bgill (The Obama administration is staging a coup. Wake up, America, before it's too late.)
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To: wagglebee

Consciousness can exist simultaneously on many different levels. A complicated issue.


6 posted on 11/11/2011 4:52:50 PM PST by oldsicilian
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To: wagglebee
We have a long history of people waking unexpectedly from these "vegetative states," and relating things they heard while "unconscious." I'm glad some one has generated empirical data to back up the clinical experiences.
7 posted on 11/11/2011 5:00:29 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: wagglebee
Well then make sure to unplug me and put a pillow over my face. No thanks. I don't want to stare at a ceiling for the rest of my "life" in some sorta quasi-aware state. Make sure your wishes are spelled out people. Tattoo it on your chest, to be sure.
8 posted on 11/11/2011 5:09:05 PM PST by Osamabindead
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To: wagglebee
Consciousness while in a vegitative state?

They must be doing their research at Zucotti Park, and other OWS venues.

9 posted on 11/11/2011 5:12:45 PM PST by traditional1 ("Don't gotsta worry 'bout no mo'gage, don't gotsta worry 'bout no gas; Obama gonna take care o' me!)
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To: Osamabindead; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
Well then make sure to unplug me and put a pillow over my face. No thanks. I don't want to stare at a ceiling for the rest of my "life" in some sorta quasi-aware state. Make sure your wishes are spelled out people. Tattoo it on your chest, to be sure.

I realize that you just joined here three weeks ago, so perhaps you didn't realize that Free Republic is a PRO-LIFE forum.

Take your pro-euthanasia crap elsewhere.

10 posted on 11/11/2011 5:26:58 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

I was speaking for myself.. I’m pro-life as the next Freeper. I’m speaking for myself, once again, myself—me,personally, I can think of nothing more that I don’t want is to be a vegetable, except maybe being lit on fire during a semi-vegetative state. You can be all you like, and I applaud it. I am speaking for myself.


11 posted on 11/11/2011 5:34:51 PM PST by Osamabindead
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To: Osamabindead; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
I was speaking for myself..

Deathbots usually say that.

I’m pro-life as the next Freeper.

No, people who are pro-life understand the meaning of the word UNALIENABLE.

12 posted on 11/11/2011 5:38:18 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee; Osamabindead

“I realize that you just joined here three weeks ago, so perhaps you didn’t realize that Free Republic is a PRO-LIFE forum.

Take your pro-euthanasia crap elsewhere.”

I am pro-life, been on Free Republic for a while and basically agree with Osamabindead, or at least find his personal choice...HIS CHOICE. Take your BS attitude and hit the road yourself if you don’t like it bagglebee. What a rude piece of crap!


13 posted on 11/11/2011 5:42:52 PM PST by Wpin ("I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny...")
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To: wagglebee

Let me be a little more clear. If someone is in a vegetative state, keep them alive at all costs. No one knows their wishes or whatnot. Err on the side of caution. I, however, want my intentions known. If I am hopelessly lost, let me go. These are MY personal wishes. No one is to violate MY personal wishes. No one is on a high enough horse to go over MY head for MY wishes. Keep grandma alive until the end of time. None of my business and maybe those are her wishes, and err on the side of caution. Me, MYSELF and I have no desire to “live” like that. Let me get on to Heaven, if that’s where the lord would receive me. Sorry, these are MY mortal wishes for ME. You think you can choose what’s best for me, over my own authority? Pretty arrogant


14 posted on 11/11/2011 5:47:50 PM PST by Osamabindead
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To: Wpin; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
So, you also don't believe that unalienable rights are actually unalienable?

Unalienable

incapable of being repudiated or transferred to another; "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights"

Either you believe our God-given rights can be repudiated or you believe they are unalienable, they CANNOT be both.

15 posted on 11/11/2011 5:51:11 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Osamabindead

So, you don’t believe in unalienable rights?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2806262/posts?page=15#15


16 posted on 11/11/2011 5:52:44 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
You're sorta making my point. Rights are waivable, by the interested party--me *do not resuscitate* rights are rights, not commandment. You have the right to free speech you are not commanded to free speech or commanded to remain silent under arrest. For a pro-choicer, you sure wanna take mine away.
17 posted on 11/11/2011 5:57:25 PM PST by Osamabindead
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To: Osamabindead

d’oh the last part was supposed to be “for a pro-lifer” you seem to wanna take my rights away. Gah! it’s Friday, the end to a looooong week. cut me some slack


18 posted on 11/11/2011 6:00:28 PM PST by Osamabindead
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To: Osamabindead; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
You're sorta making my point. Rights are waivable, by the interested party

No, unalienable means they CANNOT be waived:

incapable of being repudiated or transferred to another;

You have the right to free speech you are not commanded to free speech or commanded to remain silent under arrest.

Remaining silent DOES NOT extinguish the right to free speech.

19 posted on 11/11/2011 6:01:05 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Osamabindead; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
*do not resuscitate* rights are rights

Your original contention had NOTHING to do with a DNR, you spoke of putting a pillow over someone's face.

20 posted on 11/11/2011 6:03:41 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

That’s like saying “you MUST speak your mind”.

At this point, since I am busy, may I waive my right to speak on this issue further, or have my God given rights put me in a position that I must continue to voice my opinion?


21 posted on 11/11/2011 6:07:21 PM PST by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries of the American Farmer each and every year..)
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To: wagglebee

who was that someone I spoke of? ME! I said put a pillow over MY face lol. Anyways, been an interesting conversation, and I’ll politely agree to disagree on this one. unalienable rights such as ‘life liberty and the pursuit of happiness’ mean someone is not allowed to take those from you under any authority, but you can choose to disregard any of those if you are so masochistically inclined. You however cannot deprive those of others. You can do as you wish with your own life.


22 posted on 11/11/2011 6:08:52 PM PST by Osamabindead
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To: Balding_Eagle
That’s like saying “you MUST speak your mind”.

No, because not speaking does not alienate your right to speech.

23 posted on 11/11/2011 6:09:04 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Osamabindead
I said put a pillow over MY face...unalienable rights such as ‘life liberty and the pursuit of happiness’ mean someone is not allowed to take those from you under any authority,

Do you even recognize the fallacy of you statement?

24 posted on 11/11/2011 6:11:29 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Osamabindead; wagglebee

Hey, noob. Welcome to FR.

IBTZ


25 posted on 11/11/2011 6:12:11 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: wagglebee

What if I decide not to pursue my ‘right to life’ part of the ‘right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness’?


26 posted on 11/11/2011 6:15:06 PM PST by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries of the American Farmer each and every year..)
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To: Balding_Eagle
A person signing a DNR for instance is quite different from asking to be suffocated with a pillow.
27 posted on 11/11/2011 6:18:07 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

You”re ducking.


28 posted on 11/11/2011 6:20:35 PM PST by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries of the American Farmer each and every year..)
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To: wagglebee

Weird how you snip and clip my arguments. I said “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (for example of inalienable rights)were inalienable as far as anyone having the right to take them away or supercede them. They are for you, however, to do as you wish with them. I have the inalienable rights to bear arms, but it doesn’t mean I have to have a stockpile of weapons. I am free to excercise my rights as I wish. Rights are not commandments. As for the smother me with a pillow and you saying it’s not the same as DNR..well....yeah. If you can’t recognize tongue in cheek statements, then I’m not to blame. But here’s a tricky one for you. If life is an unalienable right granted by god absolutely without forfeit, then how do you recognize the death penalty?


29 posted on 11/11/2011 6:28:58 PM PST by Osamabindead
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To: traditional1

I think they meant to say consciousness in what used to be
considered a vegetative state....

You mean,the assured results of scientific knowledge could be
wrong? No, cannot be. And if you say so, you will lose
your tenure and standing in the community.


30 posted on 11/11/2011 6:49:21 PM PST by Getready (Wisdom is more valuable than gold and diamonds, and harder to find.)
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To: Osamabindead; wagglebee

Osama, are you making up your stuff as you go along, or reading from a website that helps you?

Trotting out the death penalty thing is not very bright of you. Sort of like having toilet paper sticking to your shoe after visiting the public toilet.


31 posted on 11/11/2011 8:01:09 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: Tzar
Slavery is illegal by Federal law, not personal property law. I couldn't sale a nuclear weapon either, but I have the right to bear arms.Where's the line drawn? It could also be philosophically argued that your average wage slave sold themselves into slavery for minimum wage, blah blah. Try this on though: I could go on National TV; Tell the world and if anyone's listening on the moon too, that I'm moving to North Korea to sale myself into slave labor for the glory of Kim Jong-Il and guess what! Nothing, anyone could do about it. Be pretty stupid, but hey. You're premise that I couldn't do something by inalienable right is flawed, because it's federally illegal. See how far you get if you argued your inalienable right of pursuit of happiness was trampled because you weren't allowed unhindered access to cocaine. Doesn't matter. Federal (sadly enough) supercedes personal, inalienable rights.This thread is now officially waaayyy off track.
33 posted on 11/11/2011 8:14:54 PM PST by Osamabindead
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To: little jeremiah

Trotting out the death penalty and it looking stupid was a by-product. If one argues that the “inalienable” right of life extends so far to god that no one of this earthly realm is able to take that right away, how can you ever be for the death penalty. We’re talking INALIENABLE. I argued against the limits of this right. So maybe re-read a bit and see it more in focus. (for the record I’m pro-life/death penalty, in case the water got really blurry here) Just the position that life is so sacrosanct that even I couldn’t die if I wanted to from a vegetative state, makes me wonder how someone that goes that far can drop the axe, and how they reason it.


34 posted on 11/11/2011 8:20:03 PM PST by Osamabindead
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To: wagglebee

"There's a man here who technically meets all the internationally agreed criteria for being in a vegetative state, yet he can generate 200 responses [to direct commands] with his brain," says Adrian Owen of the University of Western Ontario. "Clearly this guy is not in a true vegetative state. He's probably as conscious as you or I are."
35 posted on 11/11/2011 8:22:48 PM PST by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: Tzar

Who’s killing themself by denying themself from being hooked up to a machine. You do know that refusing medical care is a patient right, don’t you? That’s the issue, and it’s not “inalienable” no one can force you to do something medically (which was the source of this whole argument:The limits of inalienable..does it extend beyond your consent, medically?)


37 posted on 11/11/2011 8:34:19 PM PST by Osamabindead
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To: Osamabindead

Your run-on and ungrammatical sentences are very hard to follow. Apparently you seem to be saying that you are pro-life, but you want someone to be able to kill you if you want to die but can’t do it yourself.

You mock wagglebee for being pro-life and pro-death penalty (I think that’s what you’re saying) and yet you claim that you are pro-life and pro-death penalty.

Your thinking seems disordered.

For the record, it is obvious that executions for capital crimes is not incongruous with the right to life. One forfeits that right to life when he deprives someone else of their life.


38 posted on 11/11/2011 8:39:43 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: little jeremiah

Here’s a less incongruent finish. I don’t mock them, I wonder what they mean when they say “INALIENABLE” with such dramatic finality as in even you can’t choose, which by extension, no one can choose, but god. Then have no pangs of conscience with the death penalty. How is the leap made. The argument for your life being forfeit in the death penalty is squashed by absolutely unforfeitable, since wagglebee was kind enough to link the Websters definition of it. I am Pro-life for abortion, the unborn child has no choice. I do. I am pro death penalty. I don’t believe i the absolutes of “inalienable” rights. I think it’s a misunderstanding on the word on their part. Like if you understood the symbol “3” to be what we all understood to be “4” your math is going to look very weird to us. You’re not wrong. We just have some problems with definitions, that make us seem disjointed.


40 posted on 11/11/2011 8:47:19 PM PST by Osamabindead
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To: wagglebee

I woke up during a rather simple medical procedure, could hear everything being said, but could not move a muscle or utter a word or signal that I was awake. One of the scariest things that ever happened to me. Thankfully, the procedure did not include cutting.


41 posted on 11/11/2011 8:50:36 PM PST by Mjaye
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To: wagglebee

I am not at all surprised. Consciousness is not tied to biological functioning. It’s the other way around to a great extent.


42 posted on 11/11/2011 9:52:44 PM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Tzar

“Try to sell yourself into slavery and see if law enforcement agrees with your personal choice. It is YOUR CHOICE so I’m sure no one will mind.”

Try to make some sense...get back on your meds kid...


43 posted on 11/12/2011 3:44:10 AM PST by Wpin ("I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny...")
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To: Osamabindead

I have hope that these people are finally able to communicate and, at least, made more comfortable.

I mean, sheesh. Turn on the TV. Give ‘em some pain meds. Turn them more often so they don’t get bed sores.

And TALK to them.


44 posted on 11/12/2011 8:02:52 AM PST by Marie (Cain 9s Have Teeth)
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45 posted on 11/12/2011 8:45:46 AM PST by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: Osamabindead

Here’s your bag.

zot


47 posted on 11/12/2011 1:39:16 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Rebellion is brewing!! Impeach the corrupt Marxist bastard!!)
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To: Jim Robinson; metmom; little jeremiah; trisham; Tzar; TheOldLady
Thanks for zotting the deathbot Jim!
48 posted on 11/12/2011 1:43:00 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Yay.

He’ll probably be back, like a moth to a flame.


49 posted on 11/12/2011 4:04:41 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: Tzar

“Educate yourself on what inalienable rights are and get back to me. Your ignorance is too deep for me to dispel it, kid.”

well, I see the BS does run deep on your side of the loony farm...

Try educating yourself a bit turkey...you really are not presenting anything to debate, you are simply insulting folks better than you. Not a very bright thing to do...that is why I figured you must be a kid.


50 posted on 11/12/2011 7:25:09 PM PST by Wpin ("I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny...")
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