Rossi E-Cat Sales Web Site Goes Live

http://www.leonardo-ecat.com/fp/ ^ | 11/11/2011 | Self

[Johnny B.]

E-Cat Technology by Andrea Rossi of Leonardo Corporation

[Kevmo]

Well, thanks for addressing the series of conditionals. Of course, I do not agree with you but at least most of what you post is fact based.

Here you are trying to confuse the issue by insinuating that if there is any validity to LENR, then Rossi must be valid as well.
***NO, that is not what I’m trying to do. It is an inductive argument, where it is very LIKELY to be true/valid, not necessarily MUST be true.

It is entirely possible that Rossi is a con man, using “cold fusion” as the basis of his frauds.
***And as the list of co-conspirators grows, the theory weakens proportionally.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Kevmo has cited some of these people as scientifically validating the ecat. We now know they have a financial interest.

But....Occam's Razor.

[Johnny B.]

Here you are trying to confuse the issue by insinuating that if there is any validity to LENR, then Rossi must be valid as well.
***NO, that is not what I’m trying to do. It is an inductive argument, where it is very LIKELY to be true/valid, not necessarily MUST be true.

Your logic is flawed.

It is entirely possible that Rossi is a con man, using “cold fusion” as the basis of his frauds.
***And as the list of co-conspirators grows, the theory weakens proportionally.

As was pointed out earlier, these people you name are Rossi's partners, and they are not there in their capacity as University personnel.

[Greysard]

it’s clear it’s a scam

There is no reason to call it a scam or a true invention. The thing should speak for itself. There were indeed a few questionable experiments, and now it looks like a conflict of interest too, but in the end it doesn't matter. If Rossi is selling the devices, let him sell and then we'll listen to opinions of his customers.

But the real problem here is that we don't know how the thing works (or even why.) There is no solid scientific basis for anything that happens. As I said earlier, the device may be emitting unknown death rays for all we know, or it may explode like a nuke after exactly 12,345 hours of operation. The science is supposed to tell us that the device works because it has to work, and that it won't explode because of $some_other_good_reason. Right now we are in position of a caveman who found a way to make fire but has no idea what the fire is.

This is exactly how it didn't happen with fission reactors. Nobody demonstrated fission to citizens, so that citizens would pool their money and build nuclear power stations. Scientists said that the fission will work, and if anyone doesn't believe they can go to a certain place in Nevada and see for themselves. (If they still disbelieve they are free to do so at their own peril.) The whole thing was so well understood that no doubt remained, other than how to build it safe. Similarly we don't question light bulbs, radio, airplanes - because we (as a society) understand them pretty well. We will have to get to the same level of understanding about LENR before we will stop seeing it as a trick and start seeing it as a technology.

[Kevmo]

Your logic is flawed.
***Then show the flaw.

As was pointed out earlier, these people you name are Rossi’s partners, and they are not there in their capacity as University personnel.
***Don’t forget the reporters such as Mats Lewan. Levi was certainly no partner when he started looking into it. Given Rossi’s background, I would think that most who have looked into it were skeptical beforehand.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2768729/posts

. Recognising the danger that the University of Bologna was in through its association with Andrea Rossi, Levi set out with a sceptic’s eye to look at the businessman’s claims. A member of the US Sceptics’ Society and an experienced physicist, he was familiar with the signs that traditionally signal a scam artist at work .

[Kevmo]

I don’t know what your problem is with my standard ‘ignore post’ to you, but it sure shows you are thin-skinned.

[Kevmo]

I responded to your post but apparently you are too offended when I show where I gave up on you.

[Kevmo]

So, what should be my standard post to you that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets but doesn’t offend you to the point that you get it removed?

[dila813]

The entire website and all this PR has been orchestrated to hype it up.

Mega-fraud, looks like by the legal statements on the site, they are going to claim it just didn’t pan out and no fraud took place.

[exDemMom]

Interestingly, only Rossi, Focardi, Allan and Mills’ names are hyperlinked at that site.

I also find the “customer criteria” link to be quite interesting. Customers should be “Not effected or concerned about derogatory comments made during early stages.” Is that another way to say customers should be gullible?

Another interesting fact is that when I first became aware of the eCat, Rossi was hyping it as the next great energy revolution. It was going to make all other energy generation technology obsolete—in fact, Rossi was all but urging the immediate dismantling of all power plants. Now, according to the Leonardo website, it’s only being sold as a heater. I sense that Rossi is very sensitive to the criticisms, and tries to change his story accordingly.

[Kevmo]

There is still no evidence, other than Rossi’s word, that there even was a customer.
***There were all the people who were there at the time. There’s that Domenico Faviorinti dude
A photo of Col. Ing. Domenico Fioravanti: http://theeestory.com/posts/215391
There’s Manutencoop Facility Management

If anyone involved had an inkling that fiovaranti is a shill, they would have stepped forward. Rossi is not that good of a con artist.

TEST E-CAT - 6 OTTOBRE 2011
ROSSI ING. ANDREA
FOCARDI PROF. SERGIO
BILLI ENRICO SVILUPPATORE SOFTWARE
STREMMENOS PROF. CHRISTOS
SOGLIA PAOLO GIORNALISTA - RADIO CITTA’ DEL CAPO
DAMIANA AGUIARI GIORNALISTA
CAMPARI ENRICO FISICO - UNIVERSITA’ DI BOLOGNA
BONETTI ENNIO DOCENTE UNIVERSITARIO
HELGESSON STEFAN
SWANSON PAUL INGEGNERE
SANDSTROM NICLAS FINANCE
MAGNUS HAHN
RIVA STEFANO CONFINDUSTRIA PIACENZA
PARENTI NICOLA PRESIDENTE GIOVANI CONFIND. PIACENZA
JOHANSSON TOMAS GIORNALISTA
LEVI GIUSEPPE PROFESSORE UNIVERSITARIO
PETTERSON PROF. ROLAND
FERRARI LORIS UNIVERSITARIO
CLAUZON PIERRE RETIRED (CNAM/CEA)
VANDENWALLE KOEN INGEGNERE
PASSI ALESSANDRO DOCENTE UNIVERSITARIO
PASSERINI DANIELE BLOGGER
SGHERRI ROBERTO DIR. INDUSTRIALE
FIORAVANTI DOMENICO CONSULENTE
LEWAN MATS GIORNALISTA - NY TEKNIK
BIANCHINI DAVID FISICO - UNIVERSITA’ DI BOLOGNA
ZANNOLI SEBASTIANO
JOBSON EDWARD
MELIS MAURIZIO GIORNALISTA - RADIO 24
GRANATIERO ANDREA FOTOGRAFO
BREGA MASSIMO FOTOGRAFO
ZREICK RAYMOND GIORNALISTA - FOCUS
ZREICK IRENE GIORNALISTA - FOCUS

[Lx]

The photo of Rossi inside the Ecat shipping container makes it look like he's in a straightjacket.

Again, he starts a corporation using the name of a real corporation that is related to what Rossi is doing. Kind of sleazy if you ask me.

[Tolaei1]

Wow that looks like a scam. Just amazing.

[Kevmo]

Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up Aussie Guy E-Cat Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:52:46 -0800 I find this very interesting. Where is there a scam here? http://www.leonardo-ecat.com/fp/Products/1MW_Plant/index.html *Purchase Terms* * Price: 2,000 Euros per kilowatt. * 1 MW plant. Only under approved circumstances will smaller sizes be considered, but no less than 100 kW. * Full payment into escrow account. * License contract written up specific to customer. * Escrow funds released to Leonardo Corp upon satisfactory completion of plant test per customer-Leonardo agreement. Escrow funds return to customer if test results are not satisfactory. For more details and information, please send an email to i...@leonardocorp1996.com AG

[Johnny B.]

Your logic is flawed.
***Then show the flaw.

It's self-evident. Even if LENR turns out to be true, that doesn't mean that everyone claiming to be doing it is being truthful.

The fact that there really are electric cars doesn't make Tilley any less of a con artist.

he was familiar with the signs that traditionally signal a scam artist at work .

Yes, just about everything Rossi has done shows the signs of a scam artist at work.

[Johnny B.]

I don’t know what your problem is with my standard ‘ignore post’ to you, but it sure shows you are thin-skinned.

I responded to your post but apparently you are too offended when I show where I gave up on you.

So, what should be my standard post to you that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets but doesn’t offend you to the point that you get it removed?

Really, Kevmo? Three consecutive replies, all saying you don't want to reply.

Someone here has a thin skin.

[Johnny B.]

***There were all the people who were there at the time. There’s that Domenico Faviorinti dude A photo of Col. Ing. Domenico Fioravanti: http://theeestory.com/posts/215391

What about "that Domenico Faviorinti dude"? As far as I've seen, no one has been able to actually identify him. The only information I've seen about him is that Rossi cleverly insinuated that he was a "Colonel" and made it appear that this was some sort of secret (by writing "Colonel" and then scratching it out).

Colonel Sanders cooked chicken. He as a better reputation as a cold fusion researcher than "Colonel" Faviorinti. At least we know who Colonel Sanders was and what he did. And, by the way, the silly article you linked to, apparently as "evidence", shows absolutely nothing relevant to identifying Faviorinti.

Regarding the long list of "observers". Note that no one who was not one of Rossi's partners were allowed to do any actual testing of any aspect of the dog & pony show. They were allowed to watch a bunch of pipes and boxes just sit there. They had to take Rossi's word that anything at all was actually happening.

There’s Manutencoop Facility Management

So the landlord came to watch the show. I don't read Italian, but while browsing their web site, I see that they do laundry services. Maybe they were hoping to take in shirts while everyone was standing around in all that steam (of course, there wasn't any steam).

[Wonder Warthog]

"Not only is he reporting on Rossi, but he's a business partner as well."

Jumping to conclusions again, I see. He could be a "vendor" (selling services), or simply have donated the effort because he thinks the e-Cat is real. You apparently "believe Krivit unreservedly", and he is providing an obvious service to the "anti" side of the issue. Is "he" a "business partner" as well???

[Johnny B.]

Full payment into escrow account.
Escrow funds return to customer if test results are not satisfactory.

Sounds good! Does he offer similar promises to his investors?

He wouldn't be the first con artist who fleeced investors was more lucrative than fleecing customers. Both Tilley and Steorn proudly boasted that they wouldn't take any money from customers until they delivered working devices. Yet each one managed to bilk millions from their investors.

There's more than one way to con someone out of his money.

[Wonder Warthog]

"I think he meant there aren't too many houses that have a 250 kW service. At 220 Volts, that's over 1,000 amps."

The 1MW units aren't for home use. They are for industrial use. I suspect that any industry large enough to need those quantities of hot water/steam will have the necessary available.

Or, they could use the same strategy as on old earth-moving equipment.....a battery starts a small gas engine....the small gas engine starts the bigger diesel. That's basically what was done in the 28 October demo.

I would think that home units would be significantly smaller than 1MW (50KW??) with a commensurate reduction in need for "startup energy".