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Collective Punishment Under Islam "Wherever You Can Reach Them"
Hudson New York ^ | 12-08-11 | Raymond Ibrahim

Posted on 12/12/2011 11:57:01 AM PST by bayouranger

During a recent altercation in Egypt, a Christian inadvertently killed a Muslim. This incident, according to an AINA report, "turned into collective punishment of all Copts in the majority Christian village." Two Christians "not party to the altercation" were killed; others were stabbed and critically wounded. As usual, "after killing the Copts, Muslims went on a rampage, looting and burning Christian owned homes and businesses."

Despite all this, "Muslims insist they have not yet avenged" the death of their slain co-religionist; there are fears of "a wholesale massacre of Copts." Many Christians have fled their homes or are in hiding.

Collectively punishing dhimmis—non-Muslims who refused to convert after their lands were seized by Muslims, and who are treated as infidels, or "second-class" citizens—for the crimes of the individual is standard under Islam. In this instance, dhimmis are forbidden to strike—let alone kill—Muslims, even if Muslims perpetrate the conflict. Prior to the fight that killed him, the Muslim in question had, through the help of radical Salafis, burned down the Christian's home and was threatening him over a property dispute. Still, non-Muslims are forbidden to raise their hands to Muslims, even in self defense.

Collective punishment for Egypt's Christians is common. Earlier this year, when a Christian was accused of dating a Muslim woman, 22 Christian homes were set ablaze to cries of "Allahu Akbar" ["Allah is Greater"]; when Muslims made false accusations against another Christian, one was killed, ten hospitalized, an old woman thrown out of her second floor balcony, and homes and properties were plundered and torched, as documented in a report aptly titled "Collective Punishment of Egyptian Christians."

Nor are such examples limited to Egypt: when Muhammad cartoons deemed blasphemous by Muslims were published in Europe, Christians in faraway Muslim countries such as Nigeria were killed; when Pope Benedict quoted history deemed unflattering by Muslims, anti-Christian riots around the Muslim world ensued, churches were burned, and a nun was murdered in Somalia. Months ago, when an American pastor from a fringe group burned a Koran, dozens of U.N. aid workers were killed by Muslims in Afghanistan; some were beheaded.

This practice of attacking one set of Christians as retribution for the acts of another set has roots in Islamic law. The Pact of Omar, a foundational text for Islam's treatment of dhimmis, makes clear that the consequences of breaking any of the debilitating and humiliating conditions non-Muslims are made to accept -- such as to be granted a degree of unguaranteed safety by the Muslim state -- were stark: "If we in any way violate these undertakings … we forfeit our covenant, and we become liable to the penalties for contumacy and sedition"—penalties that include enslavement, rape, and death.

As Mark Durie points out in The Third Choice, a book on dhimmitude,

Even a breach by a single individual dhimmi could result in jihad being enacted against the whole community. Muslim jurists have made this principle explicit, for example, the Yemeni jurist al-Murtada wrote that "The agreement will be canceled if all or some of them break it" and the Moroccan al-Maghili taught "The fact that one individual (or one group) among them has broken the statute is enough to invalidate it for all of them."

This approach applies to all non-Muslim groups —Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.—living among Muslim majorities. Yet, because Christians are the most visible infidel minority in the Islamic world, most examples relate to them. The Copts, for instance, are especially targeted because they comprise the largest Christian bloc in the Middle East. (Centuries before the Muslim conquests, Egypt was a major center of Christianity, and Alexandria arguably equal to Rome in authority. The result is, after centuries of persecution, there is still a viable Christian presence in Egypt—much to the Islamists' chagrin.)

Today, however, as the world shrinks—and as Muslims conflate the West with "Christianity"—the reasons to persecute Islam's Christians grow: ethnicity and geography no longer matter; shared religion, even if nominal, makes all "Christians" liable for each other.

Consider Iraq: its persecuted Christians are being targeted in part "over their religious ties with the West." Last year's Baghdad church attack, when over 50 Christians were butchered, was initiated in "retaliation" to absurd accusations against the Egyptian Coptic Church.

Just as the Copts today are cited as the reason behind the massacre of Iraqi Christians, nearly a millennium ago, so Copts were massacred when their Western coreligionists—the Crusaders—made inroads into Islam's domains. The logic was clear: we will punish these Christians (Copts), because we can, in response to those Christians (Crusaders).

It is in this context that one can understand the rationale of the jihadists behind the Baghdad church attack, when they went so far as to threaten all Christians around the world as "legitimate targets for the mujahedeen [holy warriors] wherever they can reach them."

Bold as that seems, "wherever they can reach them" simply means that it is the Islamic world's accessible, vulnerable non-Muslims—Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus—not their Western counterparts, who will continue to be targeted, even as the West looks the other way.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: christianpersecution; islam; jihad; koranimals; pactofomar; sharia
The more I learn about these filthy koranimals the more I'm certain about my solution.

Filthy koranimals.

1 posted on 12/12/2011 11:57:05 AM PST by bayouranger
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To: bayouranger
The more I learn about these filthy koranimals the more I'm certain about my solution.


2 posted on 12/12/2011 12:07:59 PM PST by Old Sarge (RIP FReeper Skyraider (1930-2011) - You Are Missed)
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To: bayouranger

Well hell, I’ll say it.

They’re despicable, lowlife, murderous, stupid scum who need to be eradicated from the face of the earth. They are a blight on this world.


3 posted on 12/12/2011 12:11:49 PM PST by RightOnline
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To: bayouranger

And people wondered how the Holocaust could have happened. Well, take a look.


4 posted on 12/12/2011 12:12:19 PM PST by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: bayouranger

You need to speak to them in a language they are capable of understanding. Speaking to them like an adult, as as great a waste of time as yelling at them in Hebrew, Greek, pig-latin or Spanish. They don’t understand the concept of civilization; so it is contingent upon the Coptics to speak to them in a language they posses the intellectual ability to comprehend.

Blow up their children. Set fire to their homes. Kill them whereever you find them. Attack their Mosques - this is how they apparently communicate. At least, this is how they are appempting to communicate with the Coptics, so perhaps if they make the same effort, the Muslims will learn that this sort of behavior is “wrong”.

Anything less, is simply a sign of weakness.


5 posted on 12/12/2011 12:12:58 PM PST by Hodar ( Who needs laws; when this FEELS so right?)
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To: Hodar

YUP! it is called going old Testament on them


6 posted on 12/12/2011 12:22:42 PM PST by 70th Division (I love my country but fear my government!)
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To: Hodar

I like how you think!


7 posted on 12/12/2011 12:25:27 PM PST by Old Sarge (RIP FReeper Skyraider (1930-2011) - You Are Missed)
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To: bayouranger

You sound like Hitler and his group during WW 2.


8 posted on 12/12/2011 12:29:43 PM PST by DallasDeb (usafa06mom)
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To: DallasDeb

Get your mind out of the gutter.


9 posted on 12/12/2011 12:30:53 PM PST by bayouranger (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices the lie.)
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To: DallasDeb

“You sound like Hitler and his group during WW 2.”

How is that logical to you? Hitler hated the Jews and supported eradicating them. The vast majority of Muslims (99% or better) also support killing the Jews and during WW2 the Muslims were allied with Hitler in the Balkans, in Iraq, in Iran, in Saudi Arabia, in North Africa, and in Eastern Europe.

Opposing Islam and wanting to eradicate it is no different than opposing Nazism and wanting it eradicated given the historical and indisputable FACT that Nazis and Muslims were ALLIED against Western civilization and Judaism.

Supporting the Muslims as they kill Copts and Christians is collaboration not to mention sedition.

And for the record, if the annhiliation of 1.5 billion Muslims is what it takes to attain peace with these people then so be it. I really don’t care because they’d do the exact same thing to us...and worse...if they could get away with it.


10 posted on 12/12/2011 12:49:44 PM PST by MeganC (No way in Hell am I voting for Mitt Romney. Not now, not ever. Deal with it.)
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To: RightOnline

We need them out of this country,before they grow strong enough to try the same thing here.

The UK is already under Sharia law in many places.


11 posted on 12/12/2011 1:02:34 PM PST by Venturer
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To: AppyPappy
These things can happen in other ways. For instance we might decide to arm the Copts with modern weapons ~ and while they mow down Moslems we keep those guys low by overflying them with fleets of armed Raptors.

Or, we give the Copts a light tactical nuke, and some useful overflights, while they go over to the Aswan high dam and blow it up.

There are really a whole lot of ways to remove ignorant Moslems from Egypt in such a way they won't come back.

So, why won't that happen? Well, we think of ourselves as the good guys. That's literally the only thing between most of the Arabic speaking Moslems and annihilation.

At some point somebody will need to be taught a lesson ~

12 posted on 12/12/2011 1:09:10 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Hodar

The Copts need modern arms, and they need the protection of a great power.


13 posted on 12/12/2011 1:12:23 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Old Sarge

When is hell going to suck these demon islamists back in?


14 posted on 12/12/2011 1:21:11 PM PST by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like it)
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To: bayouranger

The Copts should have had a crusade long ago... and killed all the muslims..
Now Egypt is like Rhodesia..-> the liberal whites that allowed it(Rhodesia) are being persecuted...


15 posted on 12/12/2011 1:33:47 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: MeganC

I like you, Megan.


16 posted on 12/12/2011 2:21:11 PM PST by Old Sarge (RIP FReeper Skyraider (1930-2011) - You Are Missed)
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To: bayouranger

This sounds like the perfect time and place to airdrop Hillary into, so she can lecture the muslims there about gay rights.


17 posted on 12/12/2011 2:22:43 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: DallasDeb
You sound like Hitler and his group during WW 2.

The Jews aren't making wholesale war,rape, murder and wholesale destruction against human civilization ..the muslims have doing so for over 1500 years

18 posted on 12/12/2011 2:25:45 PM PST by Charlespg
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To: Secret Agent Man
This sounds like the perfect time and place to airdrop Hillary into, so she can lecture the muslims there about gay rights.

Sorry, we don't have the airlift capability. Mybe the Russians would do it for us.


19 posted on 12/12/2011 3:19:32 PM PST by Talisker (History will show the Illuminati won the ultimate Darwin Award.)
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To: MeganC; Charlespg; bayouranger
Look, I totally understand the issue. Go back and read the poster's statement. People already think we are right-wing wackos like Hitler. We don't need to give them fodder supporting their theory. Murdering them all is NOT the answer. The problem with the Muslims is it will get worse until the Lord returns. THERE WILL NEVER BE PEACE.

BTW, I am an "end-times" believer. The Muslim faith is a faith wrought by Satan, the most beautiful creature God made. He's not a red-skinned, horned, sharp-toothed devil as we see him in cartoons. He wants to be God, so he does everything in his power to act like God and he believes that if he destroys Israel, he will be greater than God because his (satan's) religion will have survied and God's chosen people (Israel) will be gone. Because God promised Israel he would protect her. And I believe the battle for Israel will come in our lifetime.

NOBODY can believe the God of Abraham is the god of Muslims. These two entities have NOTHING in common--totally different natures.

We just can't go around saying stuff like Hitler did in Mein Kampf and hundreds of speeches and policies he wrote and/or approved.

20 posted on 12/12/2011 4:16:40 PM PST by DallasDeb (usafa06mom)
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To: MeganC

It’s very logical because he uses terms used by Hitler. And maybe that was the point he wanted to make. Hitler said the same kind of crap about the Jews. Probably because he had it in his ancestry and it caused trouble in his family life (the latter part of this sentence being totally without evidence).


21 posted on 12/12/2011 4:20:31 PM PST by DallasDeb (usafa06mom)
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