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The Real Question For Christmas Morn: WHY are your kids in college?
Boston Herald ^ | December 14, 2011 | Michael Graham

Posted on 12/14/2011 6:54:19 AM PST by suspects

Dear Massachusetts Moms and Dads:

When your kids come home from college this Christmas season and you’re gathered around the tree in the warm glow of an open fire, take a moment to lean over, put your arm around them and ask: “What the hell are you thinking!?”

It’s called the “Higher Ed Bubble,” and it’s about to burst. For years the costs of college have been rising much faster than the rate of inflation while the vast increase in the number of degrees — particularly low-brain-wattage bachelor of arts degrees — has lowered their marketplace value.

As a result, that little bundle of joy of yours is building up around $25,000 in student loan debt, along with an average credit card debt of more than $4,100, and for what —the chance to move back in with you after four (or five or six) years of college?

According to the National Endowment for Financial Education, 59 percent of parents said they have been or are giving money to their adult kids. About half (!) have had their kids move back in with them.

I knew when I left for college that I was never moving back in with my parents (particularly after they changed the locks and stopped answering my phone calls). But it’s different for Generation Cupcake. They look at Mom and Dad’s house as their “home until I get a home.”

As a result, when your kids come home for the holidays to once again raid the refrigerator and trash the game room, it won’t be a glimpse of Christmas past as much as a vision of your future.

But no one seems to ask “Why?” Why did you send your little snowflake...

(Excerpt) Read more at bostonherald.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: college; jobs; loans; occupy
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1 posted on 12/14/2011 6:54:23 AM PST by suspects
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To: suspects
"I knew when I left for college that I was never moving back in with my parents (particularly after they changed the locks and stopped answering my phone calls). "

I thought I had child proofed my house, but they kept getting back in.....

2 posted on 12/14/2011 7:03:14 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: suspects

Here’s the scoop. Back in 1993 the a federal civil rights law made it illegal for an employer to give basic intelligence tests to potential employees. No more basic math tests, etc.

So, to get around this, employers started requiring “some college” or a college degree for even entry level jobs, saying that they wanted a promotable job candidate.

Now, the government says that it is racist to require a college degree for a job that could be learned through on the job training. I’m not kidding you, the city of Seattle has this statement in one of their minority jobs programs.


3 posted on 12/14/2011 7:03:54 AM PST by Eva
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To: suspects
As a result, that little bundle of joy of yours is building up around $25,000 in student loan debt
That's all? I thought most schools charged at least that much per year.
4 posted on 12/14/2011 7:05:12 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: suspects
"...Social Thought...."

Isn't that an oxymoron?

5 posted on 12/14/2011 7:05:35 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: suspects

As long as we have Guaranteed Student Loans, available to any person who wants to borrow money today, and is unaware of his inability to re-pay it tomorrow; the colleges will continue to raise tuition. No matter what the cost of tuition, students will rally to borrow money from the GSL program - without a thought to their career or future earnings.

I know of “Theater” students, working on their “Masters” and with over $240,000 in school loans; that are now volunteering (as in ‘free’) at local theaters, and making minimum wage who are just now begining to realize that they will be forever poor. They spent this money on a degree of “Let’s pretend”, and now are realizing that this degree costs ‘real money’ - money that could have bought and furnished a nice home. Now, they can’t afford to marry and start a family - they have the equivalent of a large house payment, for a degree that is utterly worthless.

And meanwhile, these taxpayer funded schools of eduation are raising tutition yet again, and getting fresh crops of suckers.

Cut GSL, and you will cut 90% of the problem. If a student has to earn and justify his education; and has to present a business case to further his career - you will wind up with students getting a degree that actually means something.


6 posted on 12/14/2011 7:08:25 AM PST by Hodar ( Who needs laws; when this FEELS so right?)
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To: Hodar

My college roommate (this was in the 70s), graduated with a Theater Arts BA, within a year, discovered it wasn’t all that marketable, so went to school again and has been gainfully employed since as a Phlebotomist.


7 posted on 12/14/2011 7:12:31 AM PST by knittnmom (Save the earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!)
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To: knittnmom

“I knew when I left for college that I was never moving back in with my parents (particularly after they changed the locks and stopped answering my phone calls). But it’s different for Generation Cupcake. They look at Mom and Dad’s house as their “home until I get a home.” ‘

Hey Generation Boomer, what was that about the whole ‘tune in drop out generation?

At least we’re working and we aren’t out promoting the counterculture or whatever such nonsense. What, have you finally found yourselves?


8 posted on 12/14/2011 7:16:41 AM PST by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! 10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government)
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To: suspects

A FAR better question for CHRISTmas morn would be:

Are you seeking and following God’s plan for your life?


9 posted on 12/14/2011 7:19:51 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: suspects

Because employers have drunk the kool aid that a Bachelors Degree means you pop out fully trained and prepared to take the job and be productive day one, with no employer investment of time or money towards training required.

Yeah, I don’t buy it either. But they do.


10 posted on 12/14/2011 7:19:58 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: suspects
According to the National Endowment for Financial Education, 59 percent of parents said they have been or are giving money to their adult kids. About half (!) have had their kids move back in with them.

Let's be fair, back when "mom and dad" were starting out, they has something called "Job Security". Do your job, keep your nose clean; and it was reasonable to expect to retire at that job. It was reasonable that if you did your job well, you would be promoted because of your skills - not because of education - but because of your skills. We had folk become VP's and Presidents of companies, who had never set foot in a university. These were good folk, smart folk, who earned and worked their way to the top.

Today, what do we have? Well, we have a workplace where your job is utterly disposable, where your career can be sidetracked because some CEO 'thinks' that the profit the company earned wasn't "good enough", so he will cut entire divisions to "streamline" the next fiscal year. Short sighted business decisions and personal gain will trump a hard work by dedicated workers 100% of the time. We see entire divisions closed down and sent overseas; leaving the people who created the company broke, forced to sell their homes and hoping to get another job that paid something close to the job that they lost.

Then, we look disparagingly upon the kids who are reaping the rewards of policies that were started in motion back in the 1980's.

11 posted on 12/14/2011 7:22:43 AM PST by Hodar ( Who needs laws; when this FEELS so right?)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

I’ve heard that now that employers can’t give prospective employees an IQ test, they use college attendance details as a substitute.


12 posted on 12/14/2011 7:24:09 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: suspects

Why is my child in college? Because she wants to be a doctor and having college classes and the subsequent degree is about the only game in town. (Yes, she COULD take 60 hours and go to a Caribbean medical school, but since those are non-US schools there will be problems and complications down the road when she tries to comes back for residency.)

Here’s a better question — Are you learning skills and knowledge that you can only get in college and how will you use this information to support yourself in the future. If the look is a blank stare, then maybe, just maybe, the college is a very expensive babysitter.


13 posted on 12/14/2011 7:29:47 AM PST by SoftballMominVA
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To: Hodar

We are raising our children so that they understand that a liberal arts degree in Underwater Basket-weaving is a useless degree that will not support them in the future. They will need to get an education that will support them and keep them gainfully employed.

The difficulty in doing this is trying to look down the road and determine which fields will be the ones that will be in demand.

I don’t know what the economy will look like for my children and what employers will be looking for in the future.

I don’t want them to be educators because I hate teachers unions. I don’t want them to become doctors because I think Obamacare will make that line of work very difficult. I don’t want them to just get a degree that will be in high demand that will keep them employed, but won’t fulfill them as human beings. At the same time I don’t want them to keep their heads in the clouds and not be financially secure.

I should have taken up tea-leaves reading long ago. (Sigh.)


14 posted on 12/14/2011 7:41:15 AM PST by Pan_Yans Wife ("Real solidarity means coming together for the common good."-Sarah Palin)
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To: BenKenobi

Never had time to drop out, tune in, protest, etc. Worked in my parents’ restaurant before college, local bowling alley during college, saw people with degrees in my major (music ed) not finding jobs, so left college after three semesters, and kept working. Learned everything I know for my current job (IT Support) at home on our own pc, or on the job training.


15 posted on 12/14/2011 7:50:44 AM PST by knittnmom (Save the earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!)
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To: Eva

Griggs v. Duke Power


16 posted on 12/14/2011 7:56:16 AM PST by NonValueAdded ("Centralization destroys the blight of monopoly")
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To: Hodar

My across-the-street neighbor told me she’s looking at going to St Mary’s University Law School (my alma mater). When I graduated, tuition was an ungodly $406/hr. She called - it’s now $960/hr. Stuned my beiber, I’ll tell ya - especially considering what it’s turned into: a mill for “social justice” types who have trouble passing the bar exam because they’re not being required to take the courses that are ON THE BAR EXAM.

Ridiculous.


17 posted on 12/14/2011 8:00:57 AM PST by jagusafr ("We hold these truths to be self-evident...")
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To: Paladin2
My daughter and nephew had the same experience. They graduated from their colleges and could not get work. They both volunteered (unpaid) and got Part time jobs later.

For my nephew, the part time job is only temporary, but for my daughter there are hopes.

It looks like businesses are testing the young folks these days. And the American Dream is much harder.

18 posted on 12/14/2011 8:01:42 AM PST by sr4402
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To: jagusafr
Law schools up here (MA) are cranking out JDs faster than the job market can handle. Now we have a situation where people incur massive debt to obtain a JD and can't even get a job in the legal field. AND I heard a cat on the train this morning, who was a paralegal, saying that the paralegals earned more than the newly-minted JDs anyway.

Then again, I guess fewer jobs for lawyers is a good thing for society.

19 posted on 12/14/2011 8:04:47 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

In my experience, employers still do value the bachelor’s degree. It is a bit mystifying. But I don’t know if I see that changing in the near future.

I think it’s almost like, “everyone has a college degree so you must be a TOTAL loser if you don’t have one”.

As they say, college is the new high school.

And employers do want at least a high school “education”. So I guess that is sort of the reality.


20 posted on 12/14/2011 8:05:26 AM PST by ConservativeDude
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To: Pan_Yans Wife

My elder daughter graduates tomorrow with a BA in Anthropology/Primatology. She wants to do the rehab/re-release/habitat conservation thing. In her defense, she’s had actual hands-on experience with exotic animals for 4 years, and she’s worked the entire time she’s been in college (mainly retail). Didn’t ask me for help with grad school, doesn’t want to GO to grad school. I guess we’ll see what happens...


21 posted on 12/14/2011 8:05:54 AM PST by jagusafr ("We hold these truths to be self-evident...")
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To: Hemingway's Ghost

25 years ago, there was one lawyer for every 327 people in San Antonio. The market’s only gotten more saturated, with people who have to hang their own shingle because they’re just not prepared to practice and firms don’t want to have to train them and pay them at the same time. Lots of the folks I deal with as an attorney and a judge should be suing to get their money back, because they obviously didn’t get the education they paid for.


22 posted on 12/14/2011 8:09:08 AM PST by jagusafr ("We hold these truths to be self-evident...")
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To: Pan_Yans Wife

I don’t know what the economy will look like for my children and what employers will be looking for in the future.”

Engineering
Accounting
Finance
Medicine/Nursing

That is what I encourage every chance I get.....


23 posted on 12/14/2011 8:10:34 AM PST by ConservativeDude
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
I don’t want them to just get a degree that will be in high demand that will keep them employed, but won’t fulfill them as human beings.

Ah yeah, right. I got your fulfillment right here.

24 posted on 12/14/2011 8:12:20 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: oh8eleven

The kids can cough up 50% of tuition in cash just like my brother & I did.

Very nice to come out of college with zero debt - AND a viable & relevant work record.


25 posted on 12/14/2011 8:14:29 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: suspects

http://www.businessweek.com/interactive_reports/bs_collegeROI_0621.html


26 posted on 12/14/2011 8:18:54 AM PST by Prokopton (.)
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Oh, and I intend they will each own a house (however humble) outright before HS graduation. None of this BS about requiring college-owned dorm residency at outrageous prices & morals.

“Tax-sale” property is cheap, and Tumbleweed Homes has house plans for $20, buildable for ~$10,000.


27 posted on 12/14/2011 8:18:59 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Paladin2

Not a bad substitute. A degree, however lame, demonstrates an accredited ability to choose, commit to, stick to, and complete a 4 year full-time project to the satisfaction of dozens of certified experts in the given subject. That’s nothing to sneeze at.


28 posted on 12/14/2011 8:25:04 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: jagusafr

Congratulations to both you and your daughter.


29 posted on 12/14/2011 8:27:03 AM PST by Pan_Yans Wife ("Real solidarity means coming together for the common good."-Sarah Palin)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife

Thank you, ma’am - an emotional roller coaster for the last 4 years, but she’s come through it well and I’m proud of her.


30 posted on 12/14/2011 8:31:49 AM PST by jagusafr ("We hold these truths to be self-evident...")
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To: central_va

Are you always so rude and obnoxious to a mother when they talk about how they are raising their children? Or do you just single out ones randomly to pick on when the mood strikes you?

You truly are a miserable little creature. Why don’t you go crawl back under your rock, now?


31 posted on 12/14/2011 8:32:07 AM PST by Pan_Yans Wife ("Real solidarity means coming together for the common good."-Sarah Palin)
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To: ctdonath2
We have two kids in school, spend 35K/year and figure we're getting off cheap. No loans, no aid, just tuition management taking a few thousand out of account on the 10th of every month. No new toys, trks, ect for a few years, but I still think it's a wise investment; at least what I have seen throughout life.

Our kids work every summer but what they make in 2-3 months won't even cover a semester. Not much you can do if you're White working class folks but pay, pay, pay.

32 posted on 12/14/2011 8:46:20 AM PST by Eska
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To: suspects

Snowflake. Lol! Reminded me of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjpOZx28-AM


33 posted on 12/14/2011 8:48:54 AM PST by christianhomeschoolmommaof3
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To: suspects

bttt


34 posted on 12/14/2011 9:13:38 AM PST by petercooper (2012 - Purge more RINO's.)
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To: knittnmom

So you did drop out. Funny how that works.


35 posted on 12/14/2011 9:15:00 AM PST by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! 10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government)
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To: Hodar

Someone who gets it. Thank you.

Bravo for telling the painful truths that nobody wants to ‘fess up to.


36 posted on 12/14/2011 9:18:26 AM PST by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! 10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government)
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To: Eska

Well, I did the same. But it took me 8 years, with work and all to finish. Got through 3 but that last year was a real bear, as I’d exhausted what I had saved up.

It’s tough when you’re 21 in the centre of the recession out there, looking for a job to finish up your schooling. I ended up eventually moving back and enrolling in an entirely different school. But I finished with zero debt.

You’ve seen how well the economy has done since 2000. That’s been my whole working life, so thanks boomers. Really appreciate what you’ve done. 12 years later, still hoping, still praying that the boomers will be done giving us the shaft so that we can finally move on with our lives.

But we shall see. The lineup of Newt - Romney - and the O, means another wasted 4 years. What a pity.


37 posted on 12/14/2011 9:22:57 AM PST by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! 10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government)
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To: ctdonath2
The GI Bill paid most of mine; my employer paid the rest.
I put two sons through college - I paid cash - 100%. Both worked PT jobs for books/beer/babes, etc.
They later got their Masters and their employers picked up that tab.
As we've seen, too many kids today just sign for the loan, do nothing else, then whine when it comes time to repay a debt. "It's not faaaaaaaaair."
38 posted on 12/14/2011 9:24:51 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: sr4402

The youngest of my kids went to grad school and then took (paid) internships until he got a real job.


39 posted on 12/14/2011 9:27:10 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: suspects

We’re going to be having a difficult conversation with my daughter in a few days. She’s out of money and we don’t want her taking out more student loans. She’s only got a few thousand dollars in loans now but it can get quickly unmanageable. We’re going to encourage her to get a full time job and attend college part time as the money is available. She’s not wasting it by any means. She’s working hard, earning money at a decent part time job, living off campus rent free with her grandmother but when there’s no money, there’s no money.


40 posted on 12/14/2011 9:32:08 AM PST by cyclotic (People who live within their means are increasingly being forced to pay for people who didn't.)
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To: Paladin2
The problem is the neither my daughter nor my nephew earn enough to support themselves even after having advanced certificates and graduating with honors!

It is a 'Brave New World' we are looking at.

41 posted on 12/14/2011 10:02:21 AM PST by sr4402
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To: NonValueAdded

Thanks, I’ll have to remember that. Griggs vs. Duke Power


42 posted on 12/14/2011 10:07:10 AM PST by Eva
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To: Pan_Yans Wife

Sorry, I was just joking. Wanting to find fulfilling work is kind of a funny concept. Those jobs are for the tattoo earring crowd which I doubt your kids fall into.


43 posted on 12/14/2011 10:49:06 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: jagusafr

When I went to grad school the tuition was ~ $50/hr - paid by my employer.


44 posted on 12/14/2011 10:50:42 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: BenKenobi

“Hey Generation Boomer, what was that about the whole ‘tune in drop out generation?

At least we’re working and we aren’t out promoting the counterculture or whatever such nonsense. What, have you finally found yourselves?”

The hippie freaks were only a small but vocal minority of Boomers. The vast majority were like myself, who served our country in time of war, went to college on the GI Bill, got good paying jobs, got married and raised families, paid our taxes, obeyed the laws, voted Republican, saved wisely and retired early.


45 posted on 12/14/2011 12:06:15 PM PST by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: BenKenobi
"That’s been my whole working life, so thanks boomers. Really appreciate what you’ve done. 12 years later, still hoping, still praying that the boomers will be done giving us the shaft so that we can finally move on with our lives." geez
46 posted on 12/14/2011 12:19:12 PM PST by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: SVTCobra03

Already 24 years of Boomers. It’s like when Kennedy won, Kennedy and HW Bush were both the same generation as Kennedy. Hard to believe.

They had those folks in for 32 years. Just 16 years separated LBJ from HW Bush.

That means, we’ll likely see another 8 years of boomers. *sigh*. Really discouraging.

I was hoping we’d get a good president this time round, but it doesn’t look to be the case.


47 posted on 12/14/2011 12:54:45 PM PST by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! 10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government)
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To: SVTCobra03

“The hippie freaks were only a small but vocal minority of Boomers. The vast majority were like myself, who served our country in time of war, went to college on the GI Bill, got good paying jobs, got married and raised families, paid our taxes, obeyed the laws, voted Republican, saved wisely and retired early.”

Doubtful. Just as many boomers voted for Obama as for McCain. If these folks were a vocal minority, he never would have got elected.

It’s clear to me that while some boomers are hardworking decent folks, that doesn’t apply to all of them or even a majority, sadly. This is why this nation is falling apart.

Boomers had their chance. Time to look past to see what someone else can do. Hopefully, much better.


48 posted on 12/14/2011 12:59:16 PM PST by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! 10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government)
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To: suspects

I told mine starting at age 5 to get scholarships, which for the most part, they did, save number one, who disregarded my advice, and who has his own debt to show for it. Otherwise, three will get through with no debt. It is possible.


49 posted on 12/14/2011 1:01:15 PM PST by esquirette ("Our hearts are restless until they find rest in Thee." ~ Augustine)
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To: jagusafr

While I value my education, and what it has done for my kids in terms of critical thinking skills, I agree with you, and further think that apprenticeships ought to be reinstated - especially for law.


50 posted on 12/14/2011 1:05:07 PM PST by esquirette ("Our hearts are restless until they find rest in Thee." ~ Augustine)
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