My information comes from doing research in the field, both in the lab and through reading hundreds of original research articles and reviews on the subject, whereas yours comes from anecdotal stories you find on the internet. As long as people like you insist on spreading anecdotal stories and cherry-picked sentences gleaned from the CDC in support of falsehoods, I will attempt to counter them with the truth.
Absolutely. I can’t speak for other people, but personally, HPV is a complete non-issue for me.
How wonderful that you can be so certain of that. By that, I guess you mean that you are celibate and NEVER have contact of ANY sort with other people. If that's how you want to live, fine, but it's highly unrealistic to expect OTHER people to live that way.
Perhaps that’s because you engage in activities in which you are likely to contract HPV.
Yes, I do, as do most people. Have you ever had warts? Then you've also had HPV.
You are, again, grossly misinformed. No, ‘everyone’ does not contract HPV. If that were so, then your argument that they have to be ‘virgins’ to be inoculated does not work.
You are assuming that sexual contact is required in order to contract HPV, and yet at the same time you are saying that this is not the case?
So which is it?
I will attempt to explain, even though you do not appear to be able to grasp the finer details.
There are over 100 strains of HPV. Some infect epidermal tissue (e.g., exterior skin), causing warts. Some infect mucous membranes (such as the lining of the nose), causing dysplasias. Each HPV strain has a preferred tissue that it infects--but nothing prevents it from infecting similar tissues elsewhere in the body. Since they are all highly communicable, their route of transmission depends on where the infection is. Thus, warts on the fingers are readily spread by handshakes.
HPV-16 and HPV-18 (the two oncogenic viruses targeted by the vaccines) infect mucous membranes. While they *prefer* the genital tract, they can and do infect other mucous membranes. They have been implicated in oral, nasal, esophageal, bladder, and other cancers of mucous tissues. Their most likely route of transmission is sexual, but they are not limited to that route. Consider this scenario--you go to a family reunion, and your cousins greet you with pecks on the cheek. One of them has oral HPV-16, and when she kissed you, neither of you noticed that a tiny droplet of saliva from her mouth landed on your lips, which you licked shortly after. A year later, you notice a reddish lesion inside your cheek. You go have it checked by a doctor; tests are done, the result comes back that you have oral HPV-16. Your cousin's infection, meanwhile, cleared up without treatment. So, here you are, after patting yourself on the back for all these years for remaining a virgin, suddenly finding out you have HPV-16, and you have no idea how you acquired it and no way to find out.
And when the flare ups return, the vaccine gives the cells the tools they need to combat them.
No, it doesn't. The vaccine only enables the body to recognize and neutralize viral particles. It cannot teach the body to recognize infected cells that may not have viral proteins on their surface at all. As far as the immune system is concerned, those infected cells look like normal, healthy cells all the way up to the time death from cancer occurs.
There’s a difference between communicable diseases and sexually transmitted diseases.
Still trying to use your own personal definition for "communicable," I see. If you are trying to make the point that you don't think it is moral to vaccinate against sexually transmissible diseases, just come out and say it. You don't need to misuse words to make that point.
This is significant in this particular case because we are arguing over how the shots ought to be administered. I see no justification for a mandatory shot, and I believe that it is entirely appropriate to let young women choose, as an adult, to get them done. That way they can make their own decision, properly informed of the risks associated.
Parents make the decision to vaccinate their children without the children's knowledge or consent all the time. Unlike you, I don't have any moral objection to vaccinating a young child against a disease they may not be exposed to until their late teens or twenties, just because they don't understand what the vaccine is about. Chances are, they've been receiving vaccines their whole life that they didn't consent to.
“My information comes from doing research in the field, both in the lab and through reading hundreds of original research articles and reviews on the subject”
Then why, when I actually checked out your source, I found that it did not say what you said it did. My research demonstrated, quite conclusively, that Gardasil works just fine in women up to 45. Even your own source, the CDC confirmed this, that while it was approved at present up to 27, it had been shown in several studies to be safe for older women too.
It is unnecessary to vaccinate children. You admitted that when you stated that it was personal preference to vaccinate them, but there is a difference between necessity and personal preference.
“whereas yours comes from anecdotal stories you find on the internet.”
My research comes from the only source of data that we possess on adverse reactions to the Gardasil shot. The VEARS database. I’ve compiled it for my own research, and for the benefit of others wishing for a more in-depth look into the problems associated with Gardasil.
It’s probably not a wise decision to assume that you can rely upon arguments from authority to try to steamroll inconvenient data.
“As long as people like you insist on spreading anecdotal stories and cherry-picked sentences gleaned from the CDC in support of falsehoods, I will attempt to counter them with the truth.”
VEARS is not ‘anecdotal stories’ nor is it ‘cherry picked’. It is, quite frankly, the best data that we have. VEARS indicates that there are serious problems with the shot, that were not caught prior to the rollout because the shot was not adequately tested beforehand.
The good thing is that the database is publicly available so that people can make an informed decision based on the actual risks, rather then rely upon ‘experts’ to make that decision for them.
“How wonderful that you can be so certain of that.”
I like my life, what can I say. :)
“By that, I guess you mean that you are celibate and NEVER have contact of ANY sort with other people.”
You might wish to consult a dictionary again as to what celibate means. I presume you mean chaste? No, I am most certainly not celibate, nor have I contracted, or been at risk to contract HPV.
“If that’s how you want to live, fine, but it’s highly unrealistic to expect OTHER people to live that way.”
You asked me why I, personally, was not concerned about contracting HPV. I responded saying, that I was not at risk to contract it because of how I choose to live my life.
I do not expect others to live as I do. However, if people do not wish to contract HPV and they wish to engage in activies that they may contract HPV, there are precautions (such as testing), that they can take beforehand. I believe I even said that this is what people should do. I think they should be free to get the HPV shot when they are old enough to make that decision for themselves. Adults can do that you know.
“Yes, I do, as do most people. Have you ever had warts? Then you’ve also had HPV.”
No, ma’am. I have not.
“Since they are all highly communicable”
I do not believe that word means what you think it means. What is the most likely way to contract HPV, ma’am? You’ve said it yourself. It is most likely to be contracted through sexual conduct, either through fluid exchange or direct contact with the lesions. This can be avoided rather easily.
“Consider this scenario—you go to a family reunion, and your cousins greet you with pecks on the cheek. One of them has oral HPV-16, and when she kissed you, neither of you noticed that a tiny droplet of saliva from her mouth landed on your lips, which you licked shortly after. A year later, you notice a reddish lesion inside your cheek. You go have it checked by a doctor; tests are done, the result comes back that you have oral HPV-16. Your cousin’s infection, meanwhile, cleared up without treatment. So, here you are, after patting yourself on the back for all these years for remaining a virgin, suddenly finding out you have HPV-16, and you have no idea how you acquired it and no way to find out.”
You should write fiction. I’ll call up Agatha Christie.
“It cannot teach the body to recognize infected cells that may not have viral proteins on their surface at all. As far as the immune system is concerned, those infected cells look like normal, healthy cells all the way up to the time death from cancer occurs.”
And what percentage of cells express these characteristics during flare ups? The vaccine, will teach the cells to recognise those that do.
“Still trying to use your own personal definition”
No, ma’am. That is the definition used in immunology. Communicable diseases are those that are transmitted through casual contact. Non-communicable diseases, include sexually transmitted diseases. The reason, is because communicable diseases require isolation for treatment, whereas non-communicable diseases do not.
Surely you can see this difference? Or perhaps you would insist that hospitals treat HPV infections through isolation? I’m not sure. Maybe the hot nurses can be a part of your next murder mystery, “and then there were two”. It’ll be a best seller.
“If you are trying to make the point that you don’t think it is moral to vaccinate against sexually transmissible diseases, just come out and say it. You don’t need to misuse words to make that point.”
Then feel free to quote me where I have said this. I have no problem with immunization for sexually transmitted diseases, provided it is voluntary, and undertaken on adults only, who choose to undergo the injection themselves.
I believe I’ve even stated this several times already. What, is my real position too difficult to argue against, so you have to make up a fantasy?
“Parents make the decision to vaccinate their children without the children’s knowledge or consent all the time.”
For which diseases? DPT and MMR. The only one which isn’t communicable is tetanus. This is the argument I already made a long time ago.
All of these diseases have similar characteristics. They readily demonstrate a high affinity for herd immunity. This is why these 6 were selected for the shots that are done. They are also fatal diseases that have significant mortality if left untreated.
Neither of these are true for HPV.
“Unlike you, I don’t have any moral objection to vaccinating a young child”
Good for you. I do, when there are young girls dying of the shot.