Posted on 12/29/2011 5:22:14 PM PST by Pan_Yans Wife
An extraordinary brawl between clergymen broke out yesterday at the very site where Jesus is said to have been born.
The annual cleaning of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem descended into a battle between the rival Christian denominations that share it.
Brooms, fists and vicious insults flew in all directions between 100 priests and monks dressed in their traditional robes.
The fight ended only after Palestinian police, bending their heads to squeeze through the church’s low ‘door of humility’, rushed in with batons to restore order.
The row is believed to have begun after a clergyman of one order – either Greek Orthodox or Armenian Apostolic –accidentally pushed his broom into space ‘controlled’ by the other group.
Conflict is easily sparked by any perceived encroachment of jurisdictional boundaries within the church, where control is split between the two denominations along with Roman Catholics. All three groups were cleaning the church for annual Orthodox Christmas celebrations, which will be held next week.
Palestinian police lieutenant-colonel Khaled al-Tamimi tried to play down the incident, saying there had been a ‘trivial problem’.
He added: ‘Everything is all right and things have returned to normal. No one was arrested because all those involved were men of God.'
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
Point well made, and exactly my thinking. I know that Christians sin, and I know they don't mean to. But, if the offense is repeated for too long, then that very possibility looms quite large.
No problem, these aren’t Christians.
Grown men sweeping floors erupting into a melee. How gay is that.
My thought (not as on-topic as yours) is of the episode of Newhart where the guys form rival gangs complete with gang jackets. But the embroiderer messes up and the gang names written across the back wind up being “Puffians” and “Hooligals”. I can’t remember what happens next, but I’m pretty sure hilarity ensues.
Merry Christmas to you.
You could start by reading up on the career of John Calvin. Then proceed to Henry VIII. Then find out what happened to the last Catholic priest in Iceland. That's just for starters.
If that isn't enough, you can pick up a book on the Thirty Year's War.
The Anglicans tortured and killed many Catholics, in addition to seizing their property, forbidding Catholic worship, and destroying Catholic liturgical items and art. Other Protestant denominations killed mainly other Protestants. Calvin was particularly bloody. But then it turned around and the whole reason the Puritans (Calvinists) fled England was because of their persecution by the established Protestant church there.
In short, you can find this anywhere.
The dispute between the Armenian and the Greek Orthodox has nothing to do with doctrine, but is probably more ethnic in origin than anything else. I’ve never been sure how the Armenians ended up being one of the groups in charge there, but historically these groups have never gotten along with each other.
The Franciscans represent the Latin Rite churches there, and quite often there have been conflicts between them and the Orthodox churches, too. But again, it’s more ethnic or cultural than anything else.
Yes, indeed. And that’s why this is kind of funny. No, it isn’t right that a fight broke out in the Church of the Nativity. But when you break down our human actions you realize that each of us does things because of pride that we shouldn’t do. We’re no better than these priests in the church.
Of course, for Catholics to use the refrain that 'Protestants' did the same still does not bode well for Catholic history. After Protestants came to America, we had a few of them go nuts too. They weren't burning Catholics, but some of them sure didn't treat 'witches' very well - which is to me an equivalent great sin - thankfully never repeated.
I'll let God sort it out on judgment day.
:)
It would seem the “door of humility” may need lowered. It is not working at the current level.
My mother’s people always referred to January 7 as “Old Christmas.” They were/are Moravian and some Lutheran. Of course, the Orthodox who originally proselytized the Moravians are by now a dim memory, known to few outside seminarians and scholars. Many no longer even realize they’re the spiritual heirs of Jan Hus after that.
Excellent idea. If only all religious fanatics would do the same . . .
There's a reason that Americans chose the Roger Williams model (religious freedom) over the Mather Family model (Christian talibanism). But the Mather clan hasn't given up as evidenced by the type of behavior they continue to exhibit.
Correct. The Anabaptist Branch of Christianity does not consider themselves a part of the Protestant movement because they predated it by centuries. Most branches of Anabaptists do not recognize the authority of the Council of Nicea, unlike traditional Protestantism. Many, however, accept its conclusions, some out of genuine belief, some out of tradition as a price to be paid to be accepted into the mainstream of Christianity and end persecution.
Jan Hus, while the best known of their spiritual leaders and martyrs was, by no means, the only one.
During the religious wars in Europe in the late 16th and early 17th century, the one thing the Catholics and Protestants agreed upon were that the Anabaptists were heretics, resulting in their wanton and senseless slaughter.
This was a primary motivator for many of their branches to move to America and, eventually, why the Roger Williams model of religious freedom won out over the Mather family model of puritanism.
The Mennonites actually maintain a website which details the history of the various Anabaptist movements, including one which practiced polygamy.
The Quakers were probably the largest and best known branch of the Anabaptist movement though, depending on which particular Quaker you talk to, they may consider themselves an entirely separate movement. Some have even evolved into extreme secularists, using the tradition of opposition to state sponsorship of any religion as a club to impose their own view of state secularism as a de facto religion-- sort of the same thing which has happened to the secularization of well-known Protestant sects such as the ELCA, Methodists and Presbyterians.
BTW, I beleive the tradition of "Old Christmas" dates from refusal to accept the Gregorian calendar. Most of Protestant Europe viewed it as a Catholic invention (which it was, but it was also accurate) but gradually asccepted it over the 17th Centrury. The United Kingdom held off acceptance until early in the 18th Century. I beleive the date is not fixed as it has been celebrated on January 6th in some years, but will be January 7 in 2012. It may have something to do with Leap Years. I'd have to look it up.
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