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Supreme Court appears sympathetic to Idaho couple in 4-year battle with EPA
Washington Post ^ | Jan 10, 2012 | Robert Barnes

Posted on 01/10/2012 8:24:22 AM PST by epithermal

Conservative members of the Supreme Court seemed outraged Monday by the Environmental Protection Agency’s actions in a four-year battle with an Idaho couple who want to build a house on land the EPA says contains sensitive wetlands.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government
KEYWORDS: envirowackos; epa; taking; wetlands
This article has a good satellite image of the property. Would someone please point out the wetlands to me. /S
1 posted on 01/10/2012 8:24:34 AM PST by epithermal
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To: epithermal

Everybody who is not an extreme envirowhacko is outraged at the EPA.

When their electric bills double even they may get the message.


2 posted on 01/10/2012 8:27:09 AM PST by Venturer
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To: epithermal

N. Idaho is God’s country. The EPA doesn’t belong anywhere near there.


3 posted on 01/10/2012 8:29:50 AM PST by Sopater (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 COR 3:17b)
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To: epithermal

We’re seeing here in America, what we used to watch from afar. That is, a tyrannical government, saying whatever it wants, and it is therefore fact. The Russians used to say some amazing things, and I’d wonder, who believes that garbage?

Now I know, no one believes it. But if the government says it, it’s fact, like it or not.


4 posted on 01/10/2012 8:30:36 AM PST by brownsfan (Aldous Huxley and Mike Judge were right.)
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To: epithermal

Last sentence of the article indicates there are 5 votes in this couple’s favor.


5 posted on 01/10/2012 8:31:58 AM PST by AlmaKing
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To: Sopater
N. Idaho is God’s country.

It is certainly one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen.

6 posted on 01/10/2012 8:32:11 AM PST by NativeNewYorker (Freepin' Jew Boy)
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To: epithermal

If the court comes down for the homeowners, watch all the libs in the MSM start moaning about dying birds. Heck, maybe they’ll even do a few spots like the polar bears.

Camille Paglia, who is a leftist, once bemoaned how she couldn’t understand how the left always seemed to be pushing for an all-controlling state. I break them down into two groups - stupid and/or evil.


7 posted on 01/10/2012 8:35:14 AM PST by I still care (I miss my friends, bagels, and the NYC skyline - but not the taxes. I love the South.)
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To: Venturer

Still have loads of coal miners who marched in 2008 and voted for a known greenie extremist and will probably do so again in 2012.

As of now they still can’t figure out why their hours are being cut.


8 posted on 01/10/2012 8:37:04 AM PST by relictele (Green energy is neither)
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To: epithermal

bookmark


9 posted on 01/10/2012 8:40:30 AM PST by GOP Poet
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To: epithermal
The wet lands are to the NW on the other side of the road behind the property. I don't know if they are seasonal or not. The outlet of the wetlands likely came through the property and the lakeshore properties in front of the Sacketts.

Appearances of sympathy during SCOTUS oral arguments are not a good predictor of the opinion finally issued.

10 posted on 01/10/2012 8:48:59 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: I still care
Camille Paglia, who is a leftist..

I know she's eccentric and flambuoyant in some ways, but she's pretty smart. I doubt she's a lefty.

11 posted on 01/10/2012 8:51:14 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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Americas Government Is Preying On Her People


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12 posted on 01/10/2012 8:51:46 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: Sopater

It’s infuriating that the government can tell you what you can and can’t do on property you bought and paid for. What do they expect these people to do? Just take a loss? Ridiculous!


13 posted on 01/10/2012 8:52:26 AM PST by Doors
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To: epithermal

The Sacketts’ Testimony at PROPERTY WRONGS Hearing - 10/12/11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD8Od_8XXCE


14 posted on 01/10/2012 8:55:50 AM PST by Whenifhow
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To: epithermal

I just don’t understand how people maintain their sanity in situations like this. The aerial picture show everything you need to know. There are houses surrounding this postage stamp of land. I’ve seen elephant exhibit yards bigger than this parcel of land.

If there ever was a so called wetland in this location, it was developed many years ago.


15 posted on 01/10/2012 8:57:00 AM PST by catbertz (Easter egg...I wants it.)
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To: Paladin2

I have been trying to find this property on the Wetlands mapper here, but no luck yet: http://www.fws.gov/wetlands/Data/Mapper.html


16 posted on 01/10/2012 8:58:40 AM PST by epithermal
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To: Doors
It’s infuriating that the government can tell you what you can and can’t do on property you bought and paid for.

Legally, they can't, but the problem is who's to stop them? This case has been going on for 4 years. There should be damages paid to these landowners for what the gov't has put them through.
17 posted on 01/10/2012 9:03:29 AM PST by Sopater (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 COR 3:17b)
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To: NativeNewYorker

I wish that I could have afforded to stay there.


18 posted on 01/10/2012 9:13:07 AM PST by Sopater (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 COR 3:17b)
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To: epithermal
Four years of fighting Gov’t bureaucracy. I've only been in the battle 2 years and it takes a toll they can never repay, just so they can flex their muscle.

In the beginning I was naive enough to think that if someone said they would send you a letter or return your call they would. Now I understand they only have to make an entry into my file that they did the deed, without actually doing it.

What happened to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”? Pursuit by the Gov’t of the people negates all of it. Oppression, thy name be Gov’t oversight!

19 posted on 01/10/2012 9:20:38 AM PST by grame (May you know more of the love of God Almighty this day!)
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To: epithermal

Folks, if the EPA is not eliminated or at least seriously reined in, you will not be able to afford to buy firewood, or wood to build with in five years.

The EPA wants all timber roads to have an EPA permit. Not only on public lands but on our privately held lands as well. I asked those who work for me, the ones who deal with the EPA, what the cost of compliance would be.

This morning I met with them, and asked if they had anything for me. The first thing I heard was: “Boss, you had better sit down, this is not going to be pretty”.

If they are half way right, an eight foot 2X4 will be around $8, a cord of mixed hardwood is going to cost you over $500 and you know those small wood lot owners, say under 10,000 acres? Well, if they owe money, they will be history. I’m not even sure that our existing roads will be exempted from the new EPA regs, it appears that the ones on private land will not be.

Add into this 100,000 direct timber jobs gone till the EPA paper work is submitted and the permits issued. Think of it like this, if my men are not in the woods working, why do I need operators, truck drivers, mechanics, book keepers, etcetera?

The Federal Government is destroying this nation, and the EPA is the hammer they are using to knock down the manufacturing, mining, agriculture segment of our society. Timber is part of AG.


20 posted on 01/10/2012 9:48:12 AM PST by JakeS (The Bible teaches me not to fear what man can do, but instead ot fear God.)
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To: Venturer
Everybody who is not an extreme envirowhacko is outraged at the EPA. When their electric bills double even they may get the message.

It's a lot worse than electric rates. This building (I couldn't even get the whole thing in the picture!)

is the EPA Building. It appears to me to be the largest building (based upon frontage) on the Washington Mall. Inside this building is an army of bureaucrats. And they're just the tip of the iceberg as there are EPA soldiers all over the country attacking businesses. Each of these businesses must employ their own defensive force with usually with equal or larger numbers. Of course all of these defensive forces owe their jobs to the EPA too and many of them know it. This is a cancer which needs to be completely purged from the national government.

ML/NJ

21 posted on 01/10/2012 10:17:33 AM PST by ml/nj
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22 posted on 01/10/2012 10:34:55 AM PST by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: AlmaKing

If they win the EPA Nazi’s will change the rules and still win.


23 posted on 01/10/2012 10:48:07 AM PST by boomop1 (term limits is the only way to save this country.)
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To: epithermal

http://www.fws.gov/wetlands/Data/HisMapRep/IDSandpointSpokane.pdf


24 posted on 01/10/2012 11:06:38 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: epithermal
It's there. Priest Lake is SW of Bonners Ferry.

"Description for code PSS1C : P System PALUSTRINE: The Palustrine System includes all nontidal wetlands dominated by trees, shrubs, emergents, mosses or lichens, and all such wetlands that occur in tidal areas where salinity due to ocean derived salts is below 0.5 ppt. Wetlands lacking such vegetation are also included if they exhibit all of the following characteristics: 1. are less than 8 hectares ( 20 acres ); 2. do not have an active wave-formed or bedrock shoreline feature; 3. have at low water a depth less than 2 meters (6.6 feet) in the deepest part of the basin; 4. have a salinity due to ocean-derived salts of less than 0.5 ppt. Subsystem : SS Class SCRUB-SHRUB: Includes areas dominated by woody vegetation less than 6 m (20 feet) tall. The species include true shrubs, young trees (saplings), and trees or shrubs that are small or stunted because of environmental conditions. 1 Subclass Broad-Leaved Deciduous: Woody angiosperms (trees or shrubs) with relatively wide, flat leaves that are shed during the cold or dry season; e.g., black ash (Fraxinus nigra). Modifier(s): C WATER REGIME Seasonally Flooded: Surface water is present for extended periods especially early in the growing season, but is absent by the end of the growing season in most years. The water table after flooding ceases is variable, extending from saturated to the surface to a water table well below the ground surface. "

48.5708

-116.9198

Who knows how (satellite or boots on ground or?)or when the determination was made.

25 posted on 01/10/2012 11:11:39 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

Thanks. I would question whether there were ever “boots on the ground” for most of the mapping.


26 posted on 01/10/2012 12:38:30 PM PST by epithermal
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To: epithermal
Thanks for the link to the Mosquito Preserve Inventory.

I may be buying some land within 500 mi of there and don't want to get into a similar situation.

27 posted on 01/10/2012 2:00:54 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: epithermal
"Federal, State and local regulatory agencies with jurisdiction over wetlands may define and describe wetlands in a different manner than that used in this inventory.

There is no attempt, in either the design or products of this inventory, to define limits of proprietary jurisdiction of any Federal, State, or local government or to establish the geographical scope of regulatory programs of government agencies.

Persons intending to engage in activities involving modifications within or adjacent to wetland areas should seek the advice of appropriate Federal, State, or local agencies concerning specific agency regulatory programs and proprietary jurisdictions that may affect such activities."

Caveat Emptor.

28 posted on 01/10/2012 2:05:54 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: Lancey Howard

She’s hard to characterize. You are right, she’s not really a classic leftist, but here is an interesting paragraph from Wikipedia:

“Some of her views have been characterized as conservative,[2] but Paglia characterizes herself as a Clinton Democrat and libertarian.[5][53] She opposes laws against prostitution, pornography, drugs, and abortion.[60] Paglia criticized Clinton for not resigning after the Monica Lewinsky scandal, which she says led to America being “blindsided by 9/11”.[61] In the 2000 US presidential campaign she voted for the Green Party candidate Ralph Nader, “[because] I detest the arrogant, corrupt superstructure of the Democratic Party, with which I remain stubbornly registered”.[61] In the 2004 U.S. presidential election, Paglia supported John Kerry; and in 2008, she supported Barack Obama.”


29 posted on 01/10/2012 3:53:50 PM PST by I still care (I miss my friends, bagels, and the NYC skyline - but not the taxes. I love the South.)
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To: AlmaKing
Last sentence of the article indicates there are 5 votes in this couple’s favor. p> I'm smelling a 9-0 decision against the EPA.

Breyer, I believe, expressed an opinion that is shared with Ginsburg.

In a case that is pre-decided, Kennedy will vote with the majority.

The Wise Latina and Unqualified Hackette will not stand by themselves.

The EPA didn't lose the war, but they just lost a critical battle.

The Sacketts may well have breached the regulations. But, so what, dammit! A federal agency doesn't have any business determining whether a given lot in Priest Lake, Idaho is buildable or not. That is properly a local decision.

30 posted on 01/10/2012 4:28:49 PM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance On Parade)
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To: okie01
"That is properly a local decision. "

Yep. That the local govt were unaware of or unwilling to notify (the Sacketts)about or unwilling to fight the EPA's determination seems actionable.

31 posted on 01/10/2012 4:51:59 PM PST by Paladin2
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