Posted on 01/13/2012 7:06:58 AM PST by Veritas_et_libertas
Interviews with New Hampshire voters on Tuesday gave a glimpse into the issues that drew these newcomers to a campaign that has been trying to gain mainstream support for its message since Paul first ran for president in 1988.
Most said they were initially drawn to one element of Paul's platform, but came to support the rest of it later.
'Painfully, Very Slowly'
One voter, James Kelley, said he supported Paul at first because he seemed like the only candidate who was serious about cutting taxes and spending. But as he researched Paul's platform, he found himself reconsidering his hawkish foreign-policy views.
"Before him, I was basically like, nuke the Middle East and get it over with," Kelley said. "I started hearing what he was saying, and painfully, very slowly, I was like, yeah, actually, it makes sense."
From listening to Paul, Kelley concluded that it was the United States' own interventionist foreign policy that posed the greatest threat to national security.
"Initially, it [non-interventionism] didn't make any sense, because you keep hearing about all these threats and risks," he said. "But pretty much every single conflict we've been in, we've somehow preceded it. We armed the mujahedeen to fight the Soviets, and then we fight them as the Taliban. We put [Fidel] Castro in power; we put Saddam Hussein in power."
(Excerpt) Read more at ibtimes.com ...
That may be why you still defend Paul on the issue. Ron Paul has clearly and definitively stated that he would close “ALL” foreign bases. That, destroys the US militarily.
“The heart of Republicanism IS Libertarianism”
So you have no problem with him praising traitors, publishing decades of racist vile loony newsletters, blaming the US for 9/11 and pandering to the Truther kook fringe, sympathizing with the Occupy parasites, participating on conspiracy nut shows, working closely with Soros and Barney Frank, supported by Democrats, foilhats, white supremacists, and the fringe of society, trashing of the US Constitution, dope pushing, promoting dangerous isolationism and gutting US defense and support Iranian and terrorist nukes?
The heart of liberalism IS libertarianism.
-—...when the Ron Paul world war begins...-—
And who do you envision we will be at war with?
I don’t like any of those things. Not one of them. But in a fight for survival where my choice of a tag team partner is between a loyal pussycat and a rabid tiger, I’ll take my chances with the rabid tiger.
“And who do you envision we will be at war with?”
You might have your answer when you answer my question that you have conveniently avoided: “If crackpot Ron Paul gutted the military and closed all foreign US bases, what nation or group would you like to see become the dominant world military power. There will be one, it just guaranteed, with crackpot Paul, it will not be the US.”
I disagree. It may make it harder for us to act internationally but it does not “destroy” the military.
With our current interventionist policies I can see how this would be very damaging. However if we changed our militarist posture of constant warfare we wouldn’t need a military presence in 70 countires around the world.
Our milotary should protect its own citizens and economic interests.
Different congregation, he prefers blowback.
Ronald Reagan.
If only he could be cloned and mass produced.
I fear, we are a dying breed. The last spark of a once spectacular torch of freedom through fiscal production.
I truley have pity for our grand children, and shame that I was unable to stop the Red Threat.
All candidates in every election at any level have positions that people do not agree with and can take strong exception to. You have every right to dismiss aany candidate for any reason. And you certainly have brought up good points.
As for me I have taken a long hard look at all the available candidates as well as the current crisis facing our country and more specifically my individual liberty and economic freedom. I have determined that dr. Paul is the candidate to support.
The primary reason is his support for the most basic of humn freedoms and rights, the right to life being paramount. I also feel that his personal conduct is more in line with my values.
I do take exception to your portrayl of his trashing the constitution. I think his record in congress as well as his writings on the subject show that he has a very high regard for the constitution as originally envisioned and written. Perhaps our nation’s understanding of our founding principles have been so diluted that we don’t even know what we’re missing.
Also, if dr. Paul were to be elected president I would not give him carte blanche to enact every whim and fancy he has. I would hold him accountable to the constitution and reality just like I do pres. Obama.
-—You might have your answer when you answer my question that you have conveniently avoided:-—
I didn’t avoid your question. I told you that I didn’t agree with the premise on which it was based. You made the statement that if Paul were elected President we would become enmeshed in a “Ron Paul world war”. I don’t agree. I seem to recall the same being said of Reagan.
Yes we have. We’ve been in saudi arabia for decades. The men who attacked us were saudis.
Despite our huge presense in the south china sea red china is more powerful then ever in her history.
South korea has been attacked relentlessy for decades with no end in sight only escalation seems inevitable.
The record for america policeman of the world is not good. America is at her best when she is the city on the hill that others can flock to, not the hegemonic self righteous arbitrator of every regional conflict on the globe.
As for oil, we have the resources under our very feet. Responsible and vigorous exploitation of our own natuaral resources would be more than enough to power our economic engine for a century or more.
Maybe you can’t vote for dr. Paul. I understand that, but maybe we should all rethink the federal government’s role in world affairs and how that effects our own security.
Denial of the facts does not answer a question.
We do not occupy Saudi Arabia, indeed our foot print has been small. They have been very supportive of our bases there for two conflicts in Iraq now. They know where their bread is buttered. 20 men does not account for the entire country. they have their issues with Radicals as well
Despite our huge presense in the south china sea red china is more powerful then ever in her history.
Well that is a good reason to run away...
South korea has been attacked relentlessy for decades with no end in sight only escalation seems inevitable.
'Relentlessly"? The 2010 shelling was the word in decades. Not exactly "relentless". South is still free.
The record for america policeman of the world is not good. America is at her best when she is the city on the hill that others can flock to, not the hegemonic self righteous arbitrator of every regional conflict on the globe.
I am sure the Japanese and Germans would argue that among others. And the "hegemonic self righteous arbitrator" tripe sound like it came straight from Obama apology tour...
As for oil, we have the resources under our very feet. Responsible and vigorous exploitation of our own natuaral resources would be more than enough to power our economic engine for a century or more.
Well then drill...
Maybe you can’t vote for dr. Paul. I understand that, but maybe we should all rethink the federal government’s role in world affairs and how that effects our own security.
I have, and Paul's way is a non starter.
He wasn't.
But look at the real results of our actions.
By any measure you can use, america is a weaker nation than she was 50 years ago. Militarliy, economicaly and especially socially. We have been on a half century slide because of our federal government taking more of our liberty and in engaing in more conflicts around the globe.
Our national capital, both material and human, has been bled away for no tangible results. We are a confused nation beset on all sides and from the inside. Ii can’t see how more engagement on the worls scene can help us. I can’t see how spending more teasure and more lives on the protection of people who hate us can make us stronger.
Now on your points.
Our resources in saudi arabia are far from minimal whe you count the air bases, army bases as well as naval forces in both gulfs. Add in our huge presence in the uae, quatar, and kuwait and you have an enomous military force used to protect a resource (oil) wich is in abaundance in our own borders and that of our closest ally canada.
And as to south korea, please read about the several sinkings of naval vessles over the years, sniper activity on the dmz, artillery shellings, sub launched special forces and extensive tunnel networks. Not to mention industrial and political espionage. I’m sure that like me you might know an army or marine vet that served in sk. Ask them how much of the nork activity is actually reported.
China is able to fuel her massive military buildup with what? American dollars. If we were to repair our industrial base with regulatory reform as dr. Paul reccomends we would stop the hemoraging of dollars in our trade deficit with china. Her economy would collapse and the so called chinese threat would diminish.
Sorry, Ron Paul will not fix any of that. Indeed his idea of retreating from the world stage will have the opposite effect. We still have a reasonable amount of respect despite the leftist with their friends such as OWS and Code Pink (both supporting the idea of Ron Paul)have done.
On the rest I stand on what I said.
PS, I know all I want to know about SK/NK thanks, SK is free despite the skirmished and they have not been “relentless”, indeed the past few years have been the first real up tick in decades.
They were:
(1) Division of Europe more or less along language boundaries ~ particularly the belligerants we were going to defeat (Austro-Hungary, German Empire, Ottoman Empire), and
(2) Creation of a new nation called Yugoslavia (or South Slav Land) made up of Serbo-Croation speaking people and their affiliates.
So, Wilson got the allied powers to agree and the American (Eastern European) ethnic leaders to agree to NOT OPPOSE THE DRAFT.
America's WWI draft was very important to the winning of the war ~ not that everybody agreed we should even enter it, but it was anticipated that a return to peace would be better and the American military presence was considered the sort of commitment we needed to make to bring the war to a halt.
In the end Yugoslavia was created, and with it Bosnia as an integral part of Yugoslavia. Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro and a couple of other Serbo-Croat speaking areas were dragged in from the old Austro-Hungary, and of that came the new nation that'd never before existed.
Unfinished Turkish (Ottoman) business in the region was swept under the rug. When Yugoslavia finally came undone and parts of Austria-Hungary obtained liberation as independent nations, Bosnia became a flash point in the conflict between Roman Catholic Croatia and Eastern Orthodox Serbia (et al).
Alas, I can only take you back to the days when the Ottomans were moving into the Balkans, but if you read up on the local histories of many of the towns in the region you'd find they had plenty of trouble in the time when the Eastern Empire was separated from the Western Empire by the Roman Emperior. In FYR, "Split" isn't just the name of a small city ~ it's an event!
As the successor state to "the Glory That Was Rome" it was our duty to set things straight.
Or, maybe it wasn't, but President Wilson bought into the idea of merging the Balkans (less Greece and Bulgaria) into a single state, so that kinda did it anyway.
We were not there to save the Bosnian Muslims. We were there to help unbundle the place in a more peaceful manner.
To a degree we were successful. Next, France, there are several smaller nations the French have not been entirely successful in absorbing. We need to split them off and return them to the world community of independent nations.
This moment where they are having incredible financial difficulties is a good time to strike.
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