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Black students at Duke upset over study (finding more black students drop out of hard majors)
Herald-Sun ^ | January 12, 2012 | Neil Offen

Posted on 01/13/2012 2:44:23 PM PST by reaganaut1

DURHAM — Black students at Duke University are angry over a university research paper that found African-American undergraduates at the school are disproportionally more likely to switch from tough majors to easier ones.

“The implications and intentions of this research at the hands of our very own prestigious faculty, seemingly without a genuine concern for proactively furthering the well-being of the black community is hurtful and alienating,” wrote the officers of Duke’s Black Student Alliance in an email sent to the state NAACP.

The letter from Nana Asante, president of the alliance, challenged the faculty members involved in the research and the university administration to consider “what image has this … report portrayed to the rest of the country, namely our peer institutions, about Duke and its black students?”

The unpublished report, “What Happens After Enrollment? An Analysis of the Time Path of Racial Differences in GPA and Major Choice,” looked at the Duke freshman classes that matriculated in 2001 and 2002, in their first, second and fourth years of college.

It found that among students who initially expressed an interest in majoring in economics, engineering and the natural sciences, 54 percent of black men and 51 percent of black women ended up switching to the humanities or another social science.

By comparison, 33 percent of white women and just 8 percent of white men made the switch to majors that are considered less rigorous, require less study and have easier grading standards.

According to the paper, 68 percent of Duke’s black students but less than 55 percent of white students ended up majoring in the humanities or social sciences other than economics.

(Excerpt) Read more at heraldsun.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: bellcurve; college; duke
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To: immadashell
Eighty eight Duke faculty members wrote a letter in support of the Black Student Alliance without having read any of the study.

That's funny.

Seriously, did the study dig deeper to define the reasons why? Imho, it is not a matter of ability, but other factors are at play and those factors need to be identified in order to help solve the problem. This kind of crap has gone on for far too long and these outcomes are not helping the black community.
51 posted on 01/13/2012 3:34:58 PM PST by khnyny (Our government has become Hal in "2001 A Space Odyssey")
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To: O6ret
OK, so the report’s findings are “...hurtful and alienating...”

But are they factual?

The fact that they're factual is what makes them hurtful and alienating.

52 posted on 01/13/2012 3:37:09 PM PST by Bob
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To: crosshairs

I believe and see it all to often.


53 posted on 01/13/2012 3:41:06 PM PST by wally_bert (It's sheer elegance in its simplicity! - The Middleman)
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To: reaganaut1
the same kind of mutts that don't like background checks as a condition of employment...
54 posted on 01/13/2012 3:42:44 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: reaganaut1

Their complaint sounds like another version of “If the truth hurts, reject the truth.” Seems they have been ingrained with that narrative. Especially since the liberal Marxists have been telling them for 70 years that “It’s OK to reject the truth - we will care for you, and cuddle you, and make that boo-boo all better!”


55 posted on 01/13/2012 3:49:23 PM PST by majormaturity
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To: crosshairs
Next the minoritees you know will want the Universities to continue to bend the curves like they did with the school system you know.

Granddaughter is applying to a great University for Pre Med as she is 3rd in a class of 540 in her high school.

My Doctor asked "is she black"?

A NATION GONE MAD.

56 posted on 01/13/2012 3:49:36 PM PST by oldtimer (uee)
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To: khnyny

“at the hands of our very own prestigious faculty,”

Always victims.


57 posted on 01/13/2012 3:49:36 PM PST by APatientMan (Pick a side)
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To: APatientMan

Well, yeah, that’s true, but I think you have to understand the level and depth of the paranoia. For many generations that paranoia was well deserved, and in lots of places in this country today it still exists.

That being said, people will use whatever Ace they have up their sleeve to advance their own goals. It is human nature and is rather smart. People and social issues are complicated.


58 posted on 01/13/2012 4:18:04 PM PST by khnyny (Our government has become Hal in "2001 A Space Odyssey")
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To: reaganaut1

Geeze, there’s always the NBA!!!!!!!!!!! Or how about a career storming Foot Lockers to steal Air Jordans??????????? See, the opportunities for these geniuses are endless!


59 posted on 01/13/2012 4:31:46 PM PST by Doc Savage ("I've shot people I like a lot more,...for a lot less!" Raylan Givins)
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To: reaganaut1

“...without a genuine concern for proactively furthering the well-being of the black community....”

What is being advocated in that statement.....affirmative grading on top of affirmative action admissions?

News Flash! Only enroll in schools and courses for which you have scholastically PREPARED and you’ll be fine!


60 posted on 01/13/2012 4:37:52 PM PST by Tucker39
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To: reaganaut1

The bottom line is the PICTURES. There MUST be enough BLACKS to fill out the pictures - without them in the pictures, Duke would be considered a RACIST institution.

So the blacks show up, let themselves get in the pictures, then either transfer to something much easier, or simply drop out.

Nothing special with Duke, EVERY college that’s linked to the federal government does the same - or they are TOAST.


61 posted on 01/13/2012 4:51:48 PM PST by BobL ("Heartless" and "Inhumane" FReepers for Cain - we've HAD ENOUGH)
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To: reaganaut1
Ironic that we are coming into an Affirmative action holiday dedicated to a plagiarizer, womanizer, and con artist. What do the people expect when a certain group hoists upon the rest of us a hero that was manufactured just to appease a certain group of belly whiners?
62 posted on 01/13/2012 5:07:38 PM PST by vetvetdoug
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To: reaganaut1
Once upon a time, at a quality university, no one would automatically have assumed that the humanities and social sciences were less rigorous and had easier grading standards. It is sad how some academic disciplines have self-destructed.

One needs to be reasonably bright to perform in any rigorously taught discipline. That said, the sciences mainly require precision and discipline, with the significant exception of studies that press out into the nether regions of mathematics, where most people hit the wall long before reaching the cutting edge. Most scientists, however, don't operate at that level.

In my overlong academic career, the flat-out smartest person I ever met was doing political philosophy, rigorously. When I last had contact with him, he was taking a year out -- and a year, for him, was probably enough -- to learn classical Greek so he could read Plato and Aristotle in the original. He had not only read everything, he remembered it, and could abstract and analyze at the drop of a hat. In terms of mental gymnastics, he regularly left the rest of us standing in the dust. Brilliant man. Smarter than any mere scientist I've ever met.

63 posted on 01/13/2012 5:15:15 PM PST by sphinx
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To: mortal19440
Are these the same 88 who went after the Duke Lacrosse Players?

Just postulating, but it could have really happened given the famous 88's "guilty" conviction without the benefit of fair trial escapade.

64 posted on 01/13/2012 5:29:01 PM PST by immadashell
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To: reaganaut1
In responding to the paper, which also found similar results for students of alumni, who also get extra consideration in admissions,....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ah!...So the “legacy” admission students ( likely white) have a similar pattern as the black affirmative action students! Hm?

My conclusion:

Both groups ( black and legacy students) enter with lower SAT/ACT and GPAs. This is due to less diligence in mastering mathematics and reading/writing skills in middle school and high school, poorer study habits, less discipline to postpone immediate wants, and lower general intelligence, or a combination of all.

65 posted on 01/13/2012 5:31:34 PM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: sphinx
with the significant exception of studies that press out into the nether regions of mathematics, where most people hit the wall long before reaching the cutting edge. Most scientists, however, don't operate at that level.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I absolutely agree. Most scientists do not work on that level. One doesn't have to be “Mr. Universe” to lift a ten pound bag of sugar. The same is true in most sciences, you need to be smart enough, not the next Einstein.

66 posted on 01/13/2012 5:35:23 PM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: Publius6961

I’m reminded of the time I was given the topic of affirmative action as a subject for a paper in an ethics course.

I interviewed a prof who taught at a particular university.

He clashed with administration over his harsh grading policy.
He did not back down and argued he was doing his students a favor.
How were they going to make it in the real world if they were coddled?
Why should he give them inferior training when he knew the students in other universities were more competitive?

They didn’t find his arguments convincing, and his skin color was the wrong pigment anyway.

He came away from the experience very saddened.
The students would not be aware their education was inferior.
They would get hired based on quotas and then struggle in the workplace.
They would then attribute their poor evaluations to racism.


67 posted on 01/13/2012 5:49:14 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: reaganaut1

I WANT THE TRUTH.

You can’t handle the truth.

Aint that the truth.


68 posted on 01/13/2012 5:52:01 PM PST by Venturer
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To: Sudetenland

In life (real life—life outside of academia) nobody gives you anything, you have to EARN it
...........................................................
Unless you get an Affirmative Action Gubmint job.


69 posted on 01/13/2012 5:54:09 PM PST by Venturer
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To: reaganaut1

http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/g.htm


70 posted on 01/13/2012 6:14:52 PM PST by bkopto (Obama is merely a symptom of a more profound, systemic disease in American body politic.)
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To: reaganaut1

Not only do they drop out of tough subjects, but they whine when it’s talked about. When will we get a break.


71 posted on 01/13/2012 6:20:13 PM PST by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: reaganaut1

When I graduated from University back in 1995 there wasn’t a single black student in any of the Engineering classes that I took.


72 posted on 01/13/2012 6:24:50 PM PST by Chewbacca (woof woof. That's my other wookie impression.)
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To: reaganaut1
Photobucket
73 posted on 01/13/2012 8:23:48 PM PST by Dick Vomer (democrats are like flies, whatever they don't eat they sh#t on.)
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To: Dick Vomer
Looter guy be making a pick pocket run in the back, LOL.
74 posted on 01/13/2012 8:29:28 PM PST by The Cajun (Palin, Free Republic, Mark Levin, Rush, Hannity......Nuff said.)
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To: taillightchaser

A-N-G-R-Y B-L-A-C-K W-O-M-A-N


75 posted on 01/13/2012 8:45:39 PM PST by beaversmom
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To: reaganaut1

This observation hasn’t been lost by those who major in the more difficult programs. Especially when quotas are handed out, denying qualified grad students access to the institutions of higher learning, while the same institutions are unable to even attract any under-qualified black applicants.


76 posted on 01/13/2012 9:02:30 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: reaganaut1
Racial differences in educational performance, that's nonsense. All people on the planet are identically the same.

Watch the new Red Tails movie. It will clearly demonstrate that a racial minority pooled their considerable brain power to defeat, against all odds, those Nazis back in that second war of the world.
77 posted on 01/13/2012 9:12:12 PM PST by Jay Santos CP ("Idiocracy"... It's no longer just a movie.)
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To: traditional1
I'll bet the asian/white comparisons would be "hurtfull" to the white population too....

but the differance is I think whites generally acknowledge that blacks are great athletes, asians are very smart, etc etc...

there is no shame in admitting that somebody else is more talented or more intelligent...

there is important work in this world for all...

78 posted on 01/13/2012 9:17:15 PM PST by cherry
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To: Venturer; crosshairs; Lancey Howard
Okay folks, I know what I said was a stretch these days. If you're black, or of one of the other "special" groups, then you don't really have to EARN anything in life--just like our fearless leader--you will be given it, because you are entitled to it. I was just speaking in general terms.

So BITE ME! LOL!!!
79 posted on 01/14/2012 6:47:08 AM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: Feckless

This report and its accompanying “black outrage” will lead universities to further hand out “social grades” and “social degrees”, the way government high schools hand out “social promotions” and “social diplomas”.

“They’re black (shrug), so just push them through.”

I cannot believe that more blacks aren’t shouting to the rooftops to eradicate any and all vestiges of “affirmative action”. Instead, most just sit there and take that insulting slap in the face from white liberals, and then demand even more. I do not understand it.


80 posted on 01/14/2012 9:53:59 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

I think the best reason to do away with affirmative action, is because it should never have been implemented in the first place.

You don’t make things right by making things biased in a new direction.

You make things right by providing equal earned opportunity.

If blacks didn’t attend college on a representative basis, then I think it would have been reasonable to research why, and put in place things to help, “IF” it could be shown bias or something unreasonable stood in their way.

Look, if 10% of college students were white, and the white populace made up 70% of the college age kids, I think it would be reasoned to try to find out why. By the same token, if 10% of the populace is black, I would like to think 7 to 13% of the college students were black.

If it could be shown that blacks didn’t attend based in large part on choice, then nothing should be done even if their participation got down to zero percent.

I also support hiring on the merits. Whatever scores and qualifications stand out, that person should get the position. We cannot compete with people from all over the world, if we’re not hiring the best and brightest.

Barack Obama is the best example of that I know of.


81 posted on 01/14/2012 1:19:20 PM PST by DoughtyOne (This administration is Barawkward... yes lets try everything that failed in the 20th Century. NOT!)
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To: DoughtyOne

MLK to his credit was against Affirmative Action—reluctantly he agreed with the understanding that it should last only 10 years. It should have been done in 1973.


82 posted on 01/15/2012 12:48:10 AM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks for the mention.

My take has been that King wouldn’t approve of a lot of things that took place since his death.

I think he’d have a quite a bit to say to blacks today, not all of it very nice.

The out of wedlock birth rates and amount of abortions taking place would bother him IMO. They have sold their birthright.

Look many whites have done this as well, so I’m not singling out blacks other than to address the people whose plight King wanted to improve.

Things being introduced in the early 60s that he might have thought were going to help, have instead been a blight on his people. It’s really to bad too


83 posted on 01/15/2012 11:46:30 AM PST by DoughtyOne (This administration is Barawkward... yes lets try everything that failed in the 20th Century. NOT!)
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To: DoughtyOne

Look what the race husslers did to poor Bill Cosby when he pointed out that Blacks should go to school and learn to speak right. MLK was about getting a chance—an equal chance—not an edge and a fist full of dollars.


84 posted on 01/15/2012 1:49:22 PM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

I agree. And as for Bill Cosby, someone desperately needed to say what he did. Too many black leaders and parents have failed their next generation.


85 posted on 01/15/2012 2:50:22 PM PST by DoughtyOne (This administration is Barawkward... yes lets try everything that failed in the 20th Century. NOT!)
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