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Solar power vs. the fate of the desert tortoise
KPCC/NPR ^ | Jan. 20, 2012 | Judy Muller

Posted on 01/25/2012 12:59:46 PM PST by La Enchiladita

We all love the idea of solar energy and there are plans for 26 solar projects in the deserts of California. One is underway, but there's a big problem -- the desert tortoise is in the way.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service estimates that over a thousand tortoises could be harmed by the construction. Advocates say the projects will bring much needed clean energy and jobs to the region and that there's a way to protect the tortoises.

(Excerpt) Read more at scpr.org ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: deserttortoise; green; solarenergy
It's presumptive to say we all love solar energy but that's the NPR way. This story, the conflict between solar energy and the environmentalists came to mind during Ubama's proposal for "clean energy development on public land."

The desert tortoise begs to differ...

1 posted on 01/25/2012 12:59:49 PM PST by La Enchiladita
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To: La Enchiladita

We’ve already decided it’s OK to grind up eagles on the altar of wind energy, and tortoises aren’t nearly as pretty as eagles.


2 posted on 01/25/2012 1:04:54 PM PST by Joe the Pimpernel (Too many lawmakers, too many laws, too many lawyers.)
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To: La Enchiladita

NO NO NO.

We’ve already been told that PRISTINE ecosystems like ANWR cannot be tapped for energy because of the impact on the caribou. Clearly, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to build this solar plant without killing thousands of innocent tortoises.


3 posted on 01/25/2012 1:04:54 PM PST by bolobaby
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To: La Enchiladita
The tree huggers hate people and there are NO acceptable energy sources.

They want earth's population TOTAL well below 1 Billion.

So, the idea that we should strive for an energy policy that makes these people happy is ludicrous.

4 posted on 01/25/2012 1:08:32 PM PST by G Larry (We need Bare Knuckles Newt to fight this battle.)
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To: steelyourfaith

Ping.


5 posted on 01/25/2012 1:08:45 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: La Enchiladita

, let’s say you went really big, and you created a solar array somewhere in the U.S. the size of five hundred football fields (roughly a square mile). How much power would you get? The answer is roughly 150 MW, and only during the day when the sun is out. A typical power plant produces about 750 MW. So supplanting one power plant would require five square miles of panels. This is not compelling.
Supplanting our entire electrical supply with solar would require turning the entire state of South Carolina into one large solar panel. Or...maybe we should stick them out in the desert. Seems logical. Senator Feinstein has proposed paneling over 500,000 acres of the Mojave Desert. But again, we run into mundane practical problems, even before considering things like the environmental impact of covering that much land. When solar panels collect dust and grime, they lose much of their effectiveness, so they must be cleaned frequently. Where, exactly, are we going to get the water needed for cleaning in the middle of the desert? And who’s going to be out there wiping down 500,000 acres of panels?

Furthermore, the more distant a source of electricity is from where it’s used, the more of it you lose during transmission, as much as 50% over 115 miles. Not a lot of folks living near the Mojave. Feinstein is nuts.


6 posted on 01/25/2012 1:08:48 PM PST by Recon Dad (Gas & Petroleum Junkie)
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To: G Larry

“They want earth’s population TOTAL well below 1 Billion.”

I agree, and the fact that they have not started with themselves is proof of their hypocrisy.


7 posted on 01/25/2012 1:11:29 PM PST by henkster (Obama regime mission statement: "Find the people working, and stop them!")
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To: Recon Dad
as much as 50% over 115 miles

That is not true. Not even close to it.

Total transmission/distribution losses average 6~7% as a national average.

8 posted on 01/25/2012 1:16:03 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: La Enchiladita
Solar Track
9 posted on 01/25/2012 1:16:27 PM PST by FrankR (You are only enslaved to the extent of the entitlements you receive.)
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To: G Larry
They want earth's population TOTAL well below 1 Billion.

I agree...And it's why the government in CA is anti job/anti biz and so restrictive..They want 80 percent of the people out of CA.

In fact, fat fedgov now sees people in the U.S. as heavy luggage, a burden....Hordes that use power and energy, who are going to want their Social Security, which fatgov has looted, etc etc...

They'd like to see 90 percent of us dead...No joke.

10 posted on 01/25/2012 1:21:32 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: thackney
I wasn't paying much attention to the loss as I was the square miles it would take to produce the equivalent electricity.
11 posted on 01/25/2012 1:27:01 PM PST by Recon Dad (Gas & Petroleum Junkie)
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To: Joe the Pimpernel
On today's Eco menu: Sliced avian* w/pickled tortoise salad.

*The avian species served will vary and depends on what the blades have chopped.

12 posted on 01/25/2012 1:31:54 PM PST by JPG (Matters at which the foolish laugh and at whose consequences the prudent weep.)
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To: La Enchiladita
Ha! One of many desert tortoises spotted at my solar powered retreat.

13 posted on 01/25/2012 1:40:55 PM PST by I see my hands (The old sod ne'er shall be forgot.)
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To: Recon Dad
I think your numbers are about 50% low for compared to average solar plant output in in Southern California or in a place like Arizona. Not for a bright sunny day only, but the average over the whole year.

Solar, if it can be built economocially without government subsidies. But don't compare it to base loaded plants like coal or nuclear. They better fit the use of peaker plants, typically natural gas that only come on for part of the day to take up the swing load.

Solar output matches rather nicely with the associated air conditioning loads.

14 posted on 01/25/2012 1:45:49 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: I see my hands

There is a house like that on the side of the Organ Mts.
above WSMR and below the San Augustine pass.

Man, what a place to retire - sit on the roof, drink a beer, and watch missile launches.


15 posted on 01/25/2012 1:51:26 PM PST by patton ("Je pense donc je suis," - My Horse.)
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To: Army Air Corps; SolitaryMan; Dr. Bogus Pachysandra; grey_whiskers; ApplegateRanch; Whenifhow; ...
Thanx for the ping AAC !

 


Beam me to Planet Gore !

16 posted on 01/25/2012 2:08:48 PM PST by steelyourfaith (If it's "green" ... it's crap !!!)
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To: patton
The USAF trains in the skies overhead. Dog fights, dropping flares, even "buzzed" the shack once!

17 posted on 01/25/2012 2:10:21 PM PST by I see my hands (The old sod ne'er shall be forgot.)
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To: I see my hands

Sounds like a fun Friday night.


18 posted on 01/25/2012 2:28:35 PM PST by patton ("Je pense donc je suis," - My Horse.)
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To: La Enchiladita

BrightSource has spent “a surprising amount of money” for tortoise mitigation, according to Bechtel — the firm has to buy mitigation land whether they find a tortoise or not. BrightSource also has to monitor each tortoise for five years and perform a blood analysis to check for respiratory diseases. BrightSource has up to 100 biologists working at the Ivanpah site (!).

Ivanpah has 500 workers on site, including biologists and trade workers from California’s High Desert. The project will create an estimated 1,000 union jobs at the peak of construction.

Desert Tortoise Head-Start Program

To help rebuild the desert tortoise population in the Ivanpah Valley, BrightSource has started a “head start” program at the Ivanpah project site to prevent juvenile tortoise mortality. Head-start programs provide support and protection for hatchling and juvenile tortoises during the first five years of life, or until they are large enough to resist predators.

http://www.greentechmedia.com/channel/solar/


19 posted on 01/25/2012 2:46:16 PM PST by anglian
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To: anglian

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/brightsource-energys-head-start-program-for-desert-tortoises


20 posted on 01/25/2012 2:48:21 PM PST by anglian
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To: anglian

I guess this is why these solar enterprises go bankrupt, or at least part of why. We still don’t have answers on Solyndra.

Anyway, Head Start for baby tortoises... who’d have thought?


21 posted on 01/25/2012 2:51:33 PM PST by La Enchiladita (If you believe John Edwards has a heart condition then I feel sorry for you...)
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To: La Enchiladita

Ravens kill thousands of desert tortoises every year...yet, they are protected since they supposedly migrate.


22 posted on 01/25/2012 2:54:34 PM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Joe the Pimpernel

http://www.dialight.com/Assets/Application_Notes/Signaling/Obstruction%20Lighting%20Bird%20Strike%20Study.pdf


23 posted on 01/25/2012 2:56:29 PM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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