Click the Porcupine Thank you, JoeProBono
Baby Dragon Makes a New Friend
Don't you be prickly!
Donate monthly
Sponsors will contribute $10
For each new monthly sign-up
Posted on 02/04/2012 2:24:47 PM PST by ravager
Thanks, you’re nothing but an ignorant (or is it stupid?) spear chucker, just as I thought.
I am not ignorant of the F35 and its problems, I’m quite familiar with them as a matter of fact.
I was asking the stupid spear chucker to back up his dumbass statements with some facts.
Which, as I suspected, he is unable to do.
The wreak those Russian cargo planes too. Why do you guess they bought C-130s?
“Spear chucker” is a vile racial slur.
Name calling? Really? Are you in the 5th grade?
Your post does not reflect well upon you.
“For heavy lifting India uses the Russian IL-76, and AN-32 for light transport.”
Can’t forget they just inked a deal for C-17 aircraft. . .a heavy-lift platform that can provide direct delivery options, not just point-to-point prepared-surface delivery options.
Russian jets are far from world class. They do make a jet that is hardy, heavy, leaky, inefficient and basic. Perfect for third-world countries with limited infrastructure and a lower class population unable to work on first world products.
In the world of Security Assistance, US products are sought, first. The deciding factor for third-world countries is price, not quality.
If you want capability, reliability, efficiency and safety, you buy American. If you can’t afford the best you buy junk.
I suppose you could be right. But...
I never looked at it that way, nor do I give any credence to PC, so your faux outrage at a term that can be interpreted any number of ways is sort of lost on me. It’s
Would using another analogy make my observation about the poster any less credible?
Based on your response, I don’t think it will. It appears you agree with those who just “throw darts” or “fling mud” and offer nothing substantial or evidential to support their peurile statements.
“reflect”? Is confronting a juvenile poster on FR now supposed to be an opportunity for “reflection”?
What’s interesting is that in your ivory tower, looking down upon us all, you resort to the very behavior you’re accusing others of engaging in. “5th grade?”
I’ll ponder on that a bit...
Countries like Malaysian airforce bought Su-30MKM even when they already operated F-18D Hornets and Indonesian airforce bought Su-30s even while they had F-16s.
Whatever you think you know about Russian fighters is actually true about old Soviet origin fighter not the modern Russian fighters. Its is a mistake Americans commonly make to confuse modern Russian fighters for old Soviet fighters. In fact US airforce has hardly ever encountered a full on modern Russian fighter fleet in air combat. Its one thing face old Soviet Mig 23s,25s and 29s from third world airforce and quite another thing to take on a fleet of Su-27/30MKX, Su-35, Mig 35,31M, and in future the PakFa. The modern Su-30MKXs are not cheap, they are almost as expensive as any European fighters.
Its plain silly and ignorant to judge modern Russian fighters from the performance of old Soviet fighters in third world airforce. Its like judging American fighters from the performance of Iranian F-14s and F-4 Phantoms that crapped against Iraqi Mig-21s and Mig-23s.
“You have a lot of misconception about Russian fighters,”
Actually, that would be you.
FMS is one way to get jets, DCS is another. FMS ensures the US Government runs the competition and responds to the countries request. The countries that go FMS are usually third-world and request assistance in navigating a complex acquisition. Other than the US evaluating the pros and cons of the sale, and with congressional approval, the decision to go FMS is made by the country buying the jet.
The buying country makes the decision to go FMS based upon their ability to procure, train and sustain. And they WANT American jets because American jets are far the best out there. And if they can afford it, and congress approves, they will get the jets.
Russian jets, even the so-called moderns jets, are leaky with huge amounts of parasitic drag, inefficient engines and complete toads when to come to carrying munitions beyond the confines of an airshow. . .and they are so huge when it comes to RCS that they are like a million-watt light in a totally dark room. They are that easy to see.
Those Russian jets will never make it to the merge.
Bottom line, they simply can’t do the mission or survive against a first world jet being flown against a first world pilot. Let India buy Russian or French, put out hype that is is the “best,” but facts are facts, and the fact is the jets are still bricks and flown by third-world pilots. Let’s see, first world US jets flown by US pilots against second tier jets flown by third world pilots. . .not even close.
In the US we have US pilots flying Russian jets and the fight is hardly even, so ROE is adjusted to allow the Russian jets to get close and the engagements are very close to the airfields because the Russian jets can’t carry enough gas to get anywhere.
Invented reason to drop the FA-18, as it clearly is a top-performer and can do the mission as envisioned by the customer. The customer wanted sensitive technology, classified technology, that the US was not going to hand over-—period. Who would trust India with such technology? Not even Obama, for key-rist sakes. So the country invented a reason to go elsewhere. If the US released technology then you can bet India would have selected an American jet. That is a fact.
Russia will sell anything and so will the French.
The US will not. . .no matter how much bleating other countries get into as they try and convince the US to release more advanced technology for sale. These countries whine, “See, Mr USA, you simple HAVE to sell us the top-shelf kit. . .otherwise we will say the Russians and French are better and you lose, see, so release the best stuff of we will go elsewhere—even though we know we will be buying junk.” (Childish threats).
That is politics when it comes to FMS/DCS. It is also blathering nonsense.
In numerous simulation and mock combats around the world these fighters have repeatedly lost to out to Su-30s. (And I know you will come up with your stupid F-15’s million-0 kill record but get back to me when F-15 takes on a Su-30 in a real fight). Even US simulations have shown F-15C losing to Su-30 with 3DTVC. Also.......read Aussie airpower. Aussie pilots are not fools when they express concern that their F-18s may not able able to withstand the threat posed by the modern Indonesia, Malaysia with Su-30s let alone India, China.
http://www.ausairpower.net/DT-SuperBug-vs-Flanker.html
And I dont know what jets you are referring to as “leaky” with “parasitic drag” (and I think you still dont get the difference between Soviet and modern Russian Jets) Su-30’s speed and agility is unmatched by any F-16, F-15 or F-18. The latest block of F-16E with conformal fuel tank is like a flying brick and a missile magnet, doesn't even have enough thrust to get away from a fight with all the heavy payload. If you think the RCS of Su-30 is big, the RCS of F-15 and F-18 arent too far behind. The latest generation of Russian Novator-K100 with 400Km range and Zukh-AE AESA radar will make a joke out of any AMRAAM wielding F-15/16/18. And the Su-30 has MUCH longer ranger then any of the above fighter, not to mention MUCH higher payload capacity, larger thrust to weight ratio, HUD (F-35s dont have) and 3D thrust vectoring (NONE of the F-teens have it). Both F-16s and F-18 are pathetically low on range & payload compared to the Su-30. Dont even need to mention agility.
And before you talk about RCS tell me what plane does America CURRENTLY HAS ON SALE that has low RCS? (Dont bring up F-22 or F-35). F-15/16/18 all are very easily detectable. And Russian radars are the most powerful in the world. Given sufficient power and active phase array anything can be detected. Russia is also currently developing PakFa which will better or equal the F-35 in stealth characteristics.
Second question, has the US ever flown a fighter into combat against a rival first world airpower like Russia or China? Answer is NO. End of argument. US fighters going against obsolete third world is not a real test, just empty hot air.
“In the US we have US pilots flying Russian jets and the fight is hardly even, so ROE is adjusted to allow the Russian jets to get close and the engagements are very close to the airfields because the Russian jets can’t carry enough gas to get anywhere”
Fact is you dont even know what “Russian jets” US has. You are still a confused child wanna play fanboy. US only has Mig 23s, Mig 29s and a few monkey model Su-27 for evaluation. All old Soviet planes, not a single modern Russian fighter. Those jets would lose to an Indian Mig-21 Bison from the 60’s with more advanced radar, upgraded avionics and BVR weapon suite let alone the next generation Russian fighters.
And news flash..... US was actually willing to release technology to India with the signing of EUMA and CIS. The fighters actually got eliminated in the trials. The US fighters didn't even get to the point where they can negotiate technology transfers. They just couldn't cut it against the new European fighters. Read about the MMRCA trial report. The F-18 was the worst performer of the 5. No wonder the Aussies just cant wait to get their hands on F-35s.
“Russia will sell anything and so will the French.”
Yes Russian and French will sell anything to anyone. Americans are holy men who would never do that. .....Nevermind the long list of Muslim countries getting F-16s/15s/18s who will never ever win a real fight with their F-teens all by themselves with out US support.
US is like a car salesman who shows off a BMW SUV in the showroom but offers a mini cooper when a customer wants to buy it. At least the Russians and French will show you a jetta and sell you the same.
“In conclusion, the Flanker in all current variants kinematically outclasses the Super Hornet in all high performance flight regimes. The only near term advantage the latest Super Hornets have over legacy Flanker variants is in the APG-79 AESA and radar signature reduction features, an advantage which will not last long given highly active ongoing Russian development effort in these areas. The supercruising Al-41F engine will further widen the performance gap in favour of the Flanker. What this means is that post 2010 the Super Hornet is uncompetitive against advanced Flankers in BVR combat, as it is now uncompetitive in close combat.”
“Having ruled the roost for the decade out to 2015, the F-22A may be knocked off its perch by a newcomer, unless the US invests in new sensors, especially, and advanced technology Infra-Red Search and Track, stealth improvements and a new generation of missiles for the F-22 – assuming it even builds more than the token number of F-22s currently planned. The F-35 has already been neutralised and negated by the Su-35-1/35BM and will be substantively overmatched by the PAK-FA. The West needs to think long, hard and fast about the PAK-FA, as the current and retrograde “F-35 centric” future fighter fleet model guarantees certain defeat in future combat.”
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-300309-1.html
You see unlike Americans, Aussies dont have the luxury to invest in F-22s and scream from rooftops “We are the best! And Russians are crap!”. The very well understand they real threat they face from modern Russian fighters.
Everyone got tired of your foolishness.
I’m all for India, but rather than selling them our best aircraft, why not just ship them right to Moscow?
We need to stop selling our best military technology, and start selling the stuff we currently import from China.
Less imports. Tariffs. And a REAL trade policy.
Stop selling America.
>>>Russian jets are far from world class. They do make a jet that is hardy, heavy, leaky, inefficient and basic. Perfect for third-world countries with limited infrastructure and a lower class population unable to work on first world products.<<<
Do you know a thing about Boeing’s Moscow design center? Not only they are developing aircraft in Russia, a lot of parts for Boeing are manufactured by VSMPO company in Urals, Russia, the same contractor builds parts for Russian jets.
Replying to my post from nearly six-months ago? Wow.
“Do you know a thing about Boeing’s Moscow design center?”
More than you know.
They are not working on anything close to what we are because Boeing is limited due to ITAR, FARS, DFARS, and exporting sensitive knowledge/technology is tightly controlled and regulated.
The Boeing Leadership Center has professional development sessions and Russian Boeing employees attend these training sessions but are sometimes excluded from classes due to EEFI concerns.
We “play” with them but we do not share top-shelf secrets or even unclassified information that could be put together to reveal secrets.
Boeing and LM both are working sixth generation issues within Phantom Works and Skunk Works and they don’t share insights, technology and leading edge material manufacturing research within their own companies, let alone outside US borders.
Cheers.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.