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Therein lies the problem, what would their solution be, since I doubt they ever conceived it would get this bad, not that they didn't believe it could, but hoped that through moral education and enlightenment it never would.

I think our Founders would be surprised that we have lasted this long (especially without following Jefferson's edit about the Tree of Liberty)

Jefferson's solution may be the only one left now. They never accepted Payne's new view, but many here do.

Jefferson was more on the money about what it truly takes to keep our Liberties. It should be taught in every school in every grade level that government is an instrument of force and inherently EVIL. Government should never be viewed in a positive light.

As Washington so eloquently stated, “Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.”

As I see things playing out, I am hopeful that we do not fall into total collapse with bloody civil unrest. About ten days ago, I posted the following as the only reasonable way out of this mess

The true solution lies in the crisis of such magnitude that the "several States" gather and vote to dissolve the Federal Union. The current socialist Federal government can then be replaced by a strict Constitutional Republic.

The dissolution will not be pretty, but it will quickly accomplish the removal of almost all Federal Agencies, the firing are very large numbers of Federal parasites, the dissolution of all Federal Courts except the Supreme Court (to rid the lower courts of Marxists). Remember, the Congress created all the lower courts.

A reconstituted Republic can quickly rebound and unleash the energy of a free people.

My reading of history tells me a solution that is much different that Mark Levin's. He says we took 80 years to get here (socialism) and it will take 80 years to get back to Liberty. I say societies that are heavily socialistic cannot transition to Liberty over time. Liberty (from Socialism) can only be realized in a relatively quick time frame(few years)

In order to defeat the bureaucratic class, they must be dislodged all at once and in a short timeframe. If not, they will work around those seeking Liberty. The only way I see a solution for the U.S. is for the States to dissolve the current Federal union.

Now, the trillion dollar question is how do you get leadership at the State level with true political Warrior spine and second, the circumstances that would warrant such drastic action. Short of that, I think a long decline to a Socialist third world sewer is in our future.