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Deputy Says He Shot 'Irrational' Marine to Protect Kids in Car
Camp Pendleton Patch ^ | February 10, 2012 | Roy Rivenburg

Posted on 02/11/2012 10:25:42 AM PST by brityank

Deputy Says He Shot 'Irrational' Marine to Protect Kids in Car

15-year veteran of Sheriff's Department says Sgt. Manny Loggins was about to drive away, so he opened fire to prevent a perceived danger to Loggins' daughters. One other deputy was nearby at the time.

Sgt. Manny L. Loggins & fellow student The deputy who shot and killed an unarmed Marine sergeant after a predawn traffic stop said the Marine was acting so "irrationally" that it seemed dangerous to let him drive away with his two daughters, an official said Friday.

So when the Marine -- later identified as Sgt. Manny Loggins Jr. of Camp Pendleton -- climbed back into his GMC Yukon and turned the ignition, the deputy opened fire, according to Jim Amormino, a spokesman for the Orange County Sheriff's Department.

Amormino stressed that he was merely relaying statements made by the deputy to investigators and "not defending" what happened.

"This was a very tragic event, we all feel bad for the family," Amormino said.

The deputy, a 15-year veteran, told investigators he was parked at San Clemente High School writing reports when he spotted Loggins driving "at a high rate of speed" before turning into the lot and crashing into a gate near the football field.

The deputy pulled up behind Loggins and radioed for backup. It was about 4:40 a.m. Tuesday.

Loggins, 31, stepped out of the Yukon and walked off into the darkness toward the football field, ignoring a series of commands made by the deputy. His two daughters, ages 9 and 14, remained in the vehicle.

Other deputies soon arrived and formed a perimeter around the back end of the football field in case Loggins was trying to flee, Amormino said. Because it was dark, nobody could see where Loggins was.

"About five minutes later, Loggins walked back toward the Yukon," Amormino said.

The deputy issued "a new set of commands" which Loggins again didn't follow, Amormino said.

"Due to Loggins' failure to follow the commands and his irrational behavior, including statements he made, the deputy had a deep concern for the safety of the children," Amormino said. "In the deputy's mind, it was unsafe for [Loggins] to drive away with the girls."

Amormino said he couldn't disclose what the alleged "irrational" behaviors or statements entailed, but said Loggins didn't appear to be intoxicated.

When Loggins got back into the Yukon and either started the engine or began trying to drive away, the deputy opened fire, shooting Loggins through the driver side window, which shattered. (The girls were in the back seat and not injured.)

Amormino acknowledged that this version of events differs from an earlier account released by the Sheriff's Department, in which the deputy reportedly opened fire because he feared for his own life.

"The real threat was for the lives of the children," Amormino said Friday. In a case like this, "some information becomes immediately available and some takes longer to get because witnesses have to be interviewed," he noted.

Amormino said this account came from the deputy who fired the shots. Another deputy was nearby, but "I don't know what he saw," Amormino said.

Loggins' daughters were also interviewed by investigators, but Amormino said he didn't know what they said or if their story lined up with the deputy's.

"Whatever the truth is will come out," Amormino said, noting that "a complete and thorough investigation" would be conducted by the Orange County District Attorney's office, which investigates all officer-involved shootings.

Results of the autopsy on Loggins probably won't be made public for a few weeks, after toxicology tests are finished and the sheriff reviews the findings, he said.

Loggins' friends and colleagues have questioned official accounts of what happened, describing the Illinois native as a kind and faith-filled Christian family man who would never disobey authorities or jeopardize the safety of his daughters.



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: banglist; donutwatch; loggins; mannyloggins; manuelloggins; marine; ocsd; orangecounty; sgtloggins
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Further down in the Comments, Douglas Martin posts this time-line of the OCSD Blotter call sheet:

Was the shooting before or after 0444?
So far none of the actions or explanations of the OCSD Deputy makes sense - or a good shoot, IMO.

1 posted on 02/11/2012 10:25:54 AM PST by brityank
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To: smokingfrog; JaguarXKE; Jack Hydrazine; Bob; TigersEye; RedMDer; Altariel; Jumpmaster; dragnet2; ...

Ping for more info.


2 posted on 02/11/2012 10:28:36 AM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: Smogger

ping


3 posted on 02/11/2012 10:31:26 AM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: brityank

I see “irrational” drivers every day. I did not know it was OK to just kill them.


4 posted on 02/11/2012 10:33:27 AM PST by UnwashedPeasant (Don't nuke me, bro)
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To: brityank

“it seemed dangerous “
Oh boy, the John Edwards types are going to have a field day with this one.


5 posted on 02/11/2012 10:34:39 AM PST by Fireone (Gingrich/West 2012. What say you Rush, Mark, Sarah, Neil ?????)
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To: brityank

Bookmark


6 posted on 02/11/2012 10:34:49 AM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: brityank
Loggins' daughters were also interviewed by investigators, but Amormino said he didn't know what they said or if their story lined up with the deputy's.

Release the kids statements regarding the circumstances here!

I want to see/hear what they have to say.

7 posted on 02/11/2012 10:36:50 AM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: brityank
Loggins' daughters were also interviewed by investigators, but Amormino said he didn't know what they said or if their story lined up with the deputy's.

BTW, you just know, Mr. Amormino, AKA "Droopy dog" is FOS.

No sale!

8 posted on 02/11/2012 10:38:37 AM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: brityank

were the children removed from the vehicle ?
then there’d be no endangerment.


9 posted on 02/11/2012 10:38:54 AM PST by catroina54
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To: UnwashedPeasant

No Kiddding!! I never knew the penalty for leaving a traffic stop was death.


10 posted on 02/11/2012 10:41:53 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: brityank

I guess they couldn’t have retrieved the children from the car while the Sargent was off on foot. Or disabled the vehicle instead. They had time enough to deploy other LEO to block the other end of the football field.


11 posted on 02/11/2012 10:42:09 AM PST by Dan Cooper
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To: brityank

Executed for what he might do?


12 posted on 02/11/2012 10:43:05 AM PST by microgood
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To: catroina54

I wonder if there is history between the officer and the marine.


13 posted on 02/11/2012 10:43:55 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: dragnet2

So far there has been zero coverage of this in any of the major MSM outlets. Who’s hiding what?


14 posted on 02/11/2012 10:44:08 AM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: brityank

The bottom line is this: They killed another black man...and later found out that he was a Marine.


15 posted on 02/11/2012 10:47:07 AM PST by Bryanw92 (The solution to fix Congress: Nuke em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure!)
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To: brityank
...Amormino acknowledged that this version of events differs from an earlier account released by the Sheriff's Department, in which the deputy reportedly opened fire because he feared for his own life...

They make this sh!t up and then get away with it.

16 posted on 02/11/2012 10:47:25 AM PST by FReepaholic (Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.)
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To: brityank

The deputy was parked at a high school at 4:40 AM “writing reports”. Whenever a cop is parked in a secluded area where he can’t be seen, they always claim to be “writing reports”. I don’t know what really went down with this shooting but, dollars to donuts, the cop wasn’t there “writing reports”.


17 posted on 02/11/2012 10:48:07 AM PST by Krankor (It's time you started thinking inside your head, that you should you stand up and fight.)
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To: Dan Cooper

Did the deputy have his light bar active? Use his siren to alert Sgt. Loggins? Know there were kids in the SUV before he opened fire? Too many inconsistencies!


18 posted on 02/11/2012 10:50:11 AM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: brityank
To be blunt, the OCSD here is FOS.

They know exactly what the kids said during the course of the investigation.

Absolutely no mention of the marine having a weapon.

Absolutely no mention the dead marine used his vehicle in an attempt to run over the deputy. Never mentioned.

First the deputy feared for his life. Now suddenly the deputy's version changed, and now he feared for the kids life.

Now the OCSD spokeshole says he does not know what the kids version is?

Jim Amormino, spokesman for the Orange County Sheriff's Department is GD liar!

19 posted on 02/11/2012 10:50:25 AM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: brityank

ping for later


20 posted on 02/11/2012 10:51:07 AM PST by babygene (Figures don't lie, but liars can figure...)
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To: brityank
When Loggins got back into the Yukon and either started the engine or began trying to drive away, the deputy opened fire, shooting Loggins through the driver side window, which shattered.

I guess that disabling the vehicle was out of the question.

21 posted on 02/11/2012 10:51:16 AM PST by Sarajevo (Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental)
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To: brityank

It is irrational to try to get away from a police officer who thinks leaving a traffic stop is a death penalty offense. Therefore, anyone who tries to get away from such a stop is automatically guilty and in need of summary execution. Q.E.D.


22 posted on 02/11/2012 10:51:16 AM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: brityank
Amormino said he couldn't disclose what the alleged "irrational" behaviors or statements entailed, but said Loggins didn't appear to be intoxicated.

Lot's of wiggle room left there for later "facts" to dispute whatever may arise...

23 posted on 02/11/2012 10:51:44 AM PST by Las Vegas Ron (Rush Limbaugh = the Beethoven of talk radio)
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To: driftdiver
I wonder if there is history between the officer and the marine.

I wouldn't be surprised.

24 posted on 02/11/2012 10:52:21 AM PST by Tramonto (Draft Palin)
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To: dragnet2
By the time the daughter's "statemen" are made public, they will line up exactly word for word with the deputies statement.

What I do not know at this point in time how the cops can do no wrong crowd is going to justify this, other that he killed the man because he could, but I have confidence that they will.

25 posted on 02/11/2012 10:52:56 AM PST by sport
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To: UnwashedPeasant
little law dog, screwed the pooch, he is not judge and executioner.
26 posted on 02/11/2012 10:55:43 AM PST by org.whodat (Sorry bill, I should never have made all those jokes about you and Lewinsky, have fun.)
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To: brityank
Ok, so how does this make sense...

the deputy opened fire, shooting Loggins through the driver side window, which shattered. (The girls were in the back seat and not injured.)

??????

Father shot to death in front of daughters, no harm to them? Sheeesh!

27 posted on 02/11/2012 10:55:48 AM PST by whodathunkit
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To: Dan Cooper
I guess they couldn’t have retrieved the children from the car while the Sargent was off on foot. Or disabled the vehicle instead. They had time enough to deploy other LEO to block the other end of the football field

Hey, you oughta be a detective. Excellent point! The cop himself admits he knew there were kids in the car, and he had time to call for backup and wait for them to surround the field, yet he never once thought about getting these kids he was so worried about out of the car and to safety. Something smells real bad here.
28 posted on 02/11/2012 10:55:56 AM PST by Krankor (It's time you started thinking inside your head, that you should you stand up and fight.)
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To: Krankor
Other deputies soon arrived and formed a perimeter around the back end of the football field in case Loggins was trying to flee, Amormino said. Because it was dark, nobody could see where Loggins was.

The other deputies responded and set up a perimeter around the field in less than five minutes. That is an amazing response time. Of course, it only takes seconds to run across a field so if the Marine was trying to escape, they would have still been too late.

29 posted on 02/11/2012 11:00:02 AM PST by Tramonto (Draft Palin)
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To: brityank

It doesn’t pass the “sniff test” (”Something is rotten in Denmark..”)

There is probable cause for the traffic stop.
There is no credible reason for the use of “lethal physical force “ , other than the officers ‘belief’ that the kids might be in danger.

I wonder if he would have done the same if the driver was certifiably deaf.

Personally, I think that it is an over reaction following the Powell father who killed his children while the socialworker was outside the door, and then blew the house up with a gas explosion.
Interestingly enough in the Powell incident ,the 911 operator queried the social caseworker for 6 minutes, and then hesitated another 11 minutes before making the radio call to dispatch police, who arrived another 6 minutes later(a matter of 23 minutes before police arrival).

Bottom line: no justification for the use of “deadly physical force”, and will result in a lawsuit.


30 posted on 02/11/2012 11:00:14 AM PST by Tilted Irish Kilt
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To: sport
By the time the daughter's "statemen" are made public, they will line up exactly word for word with the deputies statement.

If that were the case, the DA and the rest of the local biggov would have broadcasted to the world what the kids version was, IMO. In fact if this guy had any child abuse incidents ever in his life, they would have given you every detail...

No weapon, no mention the marine attempted to use his vehicle to run over the deputy, nothing...zip..

BTW, the deputy shot the marine straight through the driver side window, so there is *no* way they can say the marine tried to use his vehicle as a weapon.

OCSD knows this reeks really bad.

If I were this marine's family, I'd hire the best attorney possible, and they probably already have.

31 posted on 02/11/2012 11:00:21 AM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: microgood

yes sounds like it! how dare they patrol the streets with that short of mental fuse! Goodness gracious! Who the heck are we employing with our tax extracted dollars!


32 posted on 02/11/2012 11:02:08 AM PST by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter")
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To: microgood

yes sounds like it! how dare they patrol the streets with that short of mental fuse! Goodness gracious! Who the heck are we employing with our tax extracted dollars!


33 posted on 02/11/2012 11:02:08 AM PST by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter")
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To: coloradan

Let me add: to protect the kids, we killed their father. Maybe they weren’t wearing seat belts?


34 posted on 02/11/2012 11:02:20 AM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: brityank
I take it it's OK to shoot cops then, if they "appear" to be acting irrationally?
35 posted on 02/11/2012 11:02:28 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (FOREIGN AID: A transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries)
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To: brityank

Shooting through the side window — to protect the children, who happened to still be IN the vehicle — seems excessive.

Why not shoot out the tires?

Since the marine was apparently unarmed, did the officer(s) try to restrain him before he got into the vehicle, because of his erratic behavior?


36 posted on 02/11/2012 11:03:29 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: Tilted Irish Kilt
Bottom line: no justification for the use of “deadly physical force”, and will result in a lawsuit.

More importantly, some prison time.

37 posted on 02/11/2012 11:04:18 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (FOREIGN AID: A transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries)
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To: dragnet2

I want to know what that cop was really doing there at 4:40 in the morning. Was he sleeping? Drinking?


38 posted on 02/11/2012 11:07:12 AM PST by Krankor (It's time you started thinking inside your head, that you should you stand up and fight.)
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To: sport

“By the time the daughter’s “statemen” are made public, they will line up exactly word for word with the deputies statement.”

And you seem to be a member of the cops can do no right crowd.


39 posted on 02/11/2012 11:09:10 AM PST by Mears (Alcohol. Tobacco. Firearms. What's not to like?)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

Did they shoot OJ in the famous slow speed chase?


40 posted on 02/11/2012 11:10:11 AM PST by DUMBGRUNT (The best is the enemy of the good!)
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To: Krankor

“I want to know what that cop was really doing there at 4:40 in the morning. Was he sleeping? Drinking?”
_______________

But this guy driiving at a high rate of speed, crashing into a gate with his two daughters strapped in the back seat at 4:40 in the morning and refusing to obey legitimate commands of a law enforcement officer isn’t making you curious?


41 posted on 02/11/2012 11:12:17 AM PST by elvis-lives
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To: Tilted Irish Kilt
You bet. If this were the case, every damn pursuit would lead to immediately shooting the driver to death, since they are endangering others on the road.

It's safe to say, OCSD has their teet caught in the ringer big time.

Not to mention, I'd guess there are probably a whole lot of Marines in Camp Pendleton who are more than a little angry with OCSD, murdering one of their own, who was totally unarmed and had no weapon.

42 posted on 02/11/2012 11:12:27 AM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: brityank

I’ve heard a number of stories fairly recently about cops shooting marines and other members of the armed forces. Wonder what will happen when they start shooting back.


43 posted on 02/11/2012 11:13:32 AM PST by utherdoul
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To: org.whodat

He was that tim and will be the next time.


44 posted on 02/11/2012 11:13:46 AM PST by sport
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To: dragnet2

They are not through editing the daughtr’s statement[s]. Give them time. they will eventually.


45 posted on 02/11/2012 11:17:06 AM PST by sport
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To: elvis-lives
crashing into a gate with his two daughters

Even that version changed. Initially, it was, "He crashed THROUGH a gate. Now it's "into".

refusing to obey legitimate commands of a law enforcement officer isn’t making you curious?

Not at all, unarmed people refuse to obey cops demands all the time, everyday, but they are not shot to death.

What has my curiosity, is the version of event from OCSD has changed repeatedly. This is the big problem here.

46 posted on 02/11/2012 11:18:08 AM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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All contributions are for the Current Quarter Expenses.


47 posted on 02/11/2012 11:21:49 AM PST by RedMDer (Forward With Confidence!)
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To: brityank
The girls were in the back seat and not injured.

Two girls, ages 9 and 14, were supposedly in the back seat of a truck that was driving erratically, including a collision with a fence, where Dad leaps out after the vehicle came to a stop, and they remained in the vehicle until their father returns, and is then shot and killed in front of them.

The reporter's definition as to what constitutes injury does not match my own.

48 posted on 02/11/2012 11:24:37 AM PST by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: sport
Never fly. They'd need to kill the kids too for that to happen.

I want to hear their version and their recorded interview.

Fact is, when I heard this: "Loggins' daughters were also interviewed by investigators, but Amormino said he didn't know what they said or if their story lined up with the deputy's."

I immediately knew it was a flat out lie.

49 posted on 02/11/2012 11:28:05 AM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Bryanw92

BINGO I thought the same thing.


50 posted on 02/11/2012 11:32:32 AM PST by SwatTeam
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