Posted on 02/15/2012 6:27:18 AM PST by C19fan
I am responding to people who equate my faith and my own belief in my Savior Jesus Christ to fundamental Islam. I defend that by saying that there are many LDS members who fight, as citizens of this Republic and as faithful members of our Church, against Islam and that their blood is a testinony against such an effort to equate the two.
There is nothing disgusting about stating that those LDS soldiers are fighting and dieing, or with it as a clear defense against such a fallacious claim.
One of those involved in the conflict, who has combat ribbons for Afghanistan is my own son-in-law.
You make such a statement and claim that those soldiers faith is the same as, or in bed with, or equated to the fundamental Islamics that they are fighting to those soldiers or their companions and you may end up picking yourself up off the floor.
So do not talk to me about disgusting. It is you, and those like you, who would try and say that the LDS faith is the same as Islam, when members of that faith are fighting and dying for your freedom and to defeat that enemy. That is waht is disgusting and all in the attempt to marginalize and demonize the faith of your fellow Americans.
If you do not like that...do not make such an attempt to equate the two within my sight or hearing or reading... because I will refute it, and remind you of those LDS fighting EVERY TIME such a disgusting accusation is made.
SURE they were!
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
It's similar to that OTHER thread where the fellow is hiding behind his WIFE's faith.
Any place that a MORMON has the nerve to start spouting any of their HERESY will turn in to a BASH.
Bold
ANTIs
Spotlighting
Heresy
So; it must be closer to FUNDAMENTAL mormonism?
Let’s get off of the religion nonsense and keep our focus on what is important here....
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I couldn’t agree more.
Doh! You caught me! Yep, I am all for whatever it is you are accusing me of.
How about a link to the factual description of this: "Smith was emotionally involved to the extreme, facing the defeat and potential butchery of his friends and neighbors and members of his church and trying to defend them with less than 1000 men against many times that number." from actual, factual state history sources...not from mormon propaganda sources.
Jeff, I noticed you did not address the Mountain Meadow Massacre (aka America’s first 9-11). As far as Mormons serving in the military, I’ve from a military family. I know not only Mormons, but Muslims, who have served honorably to defend our country’s freedom against Islamic terrorism. That being said, it still does not address the issues of parallels between Mormonism and Islam. And no, it wasn’t just an isolated quote from Joseph Smith Jr (who by the way was running a Danite robber barony out of Nauvoo, so it wasn’t a persecution but rather vigilante justice). Here are some additional examples, many of them post 9-11, from Mormon sources:
1 - A LDS perspective on Muhammed (LDS.org)
http://www.lds.org/ensign/2000/08/a-latter-day-saint-perspective-on-muhammad?lang=eng
2 - U.S. Muslims share friendship, similar values with Mormons (LA Times, published in 2008)
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/02/local/me-morlims2
3 - Mormonism and Islam: Commonality and Cooperation Between Abrahamic Faiths (March 10 & 11, 2011 - Utah Valley University)
http://www.uvu.edu/religiousstudies/mormonismandislam/
4 - Ask a Mormon: What do Mormons think of Muslims (March 2010 - MormonWoman.org)
http://mormonwoman.org/2010/03/15/ask-a-mormon-woman-what-do-mormons-think-about-islam/
5 - Mormons and Muslims break fast together (Ramadan 2010 - Deseret News)
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705386347/Mormons-Muslims-break-the-fast-in-Southern-California.html
6 - Islamic Translation Service (Brigham Young University)
http://meti.byu.edu/islamic.php
7 - Muslims attending BYU focus on similarities between Islam, LDS tenets (Deseret News - Dec 2009)
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353014/Muslims-attending-BYU-focus-on-similarities-between-Islam-LDS-tenets.html
I think we can agree that these are multiple sources, post 9-11, all of which are Mormon or Mormon-friendly.
The sleeveless version of the top, also known as a "plural wife beater," never caught on, for so many reasons.
Jeff Head wrote: “I am responding to people who equate my faith and my own belief in my Savior Jesus Christ to fundamental Islam.”
I am equating Mormonism with Islam. Period.
Within the equation, one also finds many similarities between particular branches of Islam and particular branches of Mormonism.
For example, up in Canada, one finds Tarek Fatah and the Muslim Canadian Congress, which is very much like the Communities of Christ in renouncing and denouncing the historic excesses of the extremist branches of their respective religion. (Tarek is good friend of Mark Steyn, and the two frequently share the mic at conservative conferences). For a good read, check out Tarek’s book “The Jew is not my enemy”.
The similarities between mainstream Islam and the LDS have already been noted by several LDS and LDS-friendly sources referenced above.
Likewise, the similarities between fundamentalists of both religions.
Great post. I have saved it. With your permission I’d like to be able to re post it in the future.
Mormons damage their own members enough that they don't have to commit jihad on anybody else, and every member is supposed to think like a missionary...how can I present mormonism in a way that's palatable enough to get the new person to attend long enough to be co-dependent.
Ex- mormons are not mormon haters any more than former addicts hate people still addicted. They hate the drug, the system that delivers it, and the lies they tell on how innocuous it is when in reality it takes everything you have.
Thanks for the kinds words. By all means, please feel free to re-post it since I think this is an issue that needs wider discussion.
Since Utah has almost the lowest enlistment rate in the United States, that is one church teaching that isn't taking hold in the Mormon population.
I was not asked about Mountain Meadows.
Mountain Meadows was an atrcocity perpetrated by a group of LDS people in southern Utah when a group of Missourian pioneers headed for California passed through.
Those involved thought that Missourians involved in earlier events were part of the wagon train...and some may have been. As such, these misguided souls sought retribution for the Missourian atroicities committed against the LDS years earlier and did so by committing even worse...blatantly killing that group of people (except for the children under eight years old which they adopted out to families in the area, and were later restored to their relatives by the US Army) by luring them into an ambush with Indians by offering to escort them, and then themselves falling upon them along with the Indians.
The leader of the group that planned it was later tried and executed. It was a horrible circumstance.
There had indeed been atrocities committed against the LDS in Missouri earlier. Many of those mobs sought LDS people out long after the fact and continued the persecution.
Hauns Mill was a slaughter where 18 men and boys were killed, and 13 more men women and children were wounded by a mob of over 250 in October of 1838. Those responsible were never brought to justice and bragged about the event for years.
I am a weak human. If someone came through my new home area, who bragged about the descecrations they had done against my relatives, or family members in Missouri...even years later...who had never been brought to justice...I would be terribly tempted to render that justice. It would not be right...and what they did at Mountain Meadows went far, far beyond that. As I said, it was an atrocity.
The events in Missouri were not the “vigilantism” you describe from Illinois. What happened in Missouri is well recorded and well documented. Read Hatley Williams, “Missouri’s 1838 Extermination Order and the Mormons’ Forced Removal to Illinois”.
The LDS people were driven out of the state on an extermination order signed by the governor. Their legal property and personal property was taken from them and never compensated. Hauns mill was the worst of the atrocities in terms of massacres, but the 5,000 people living at Far West were driven out in the dead of winter at the point of a gun and did leave a bloody trail across the state. There were those who died in route, or became sick and died later after they reached safety in Illinois, where in Navouu later, the events you alluded to occurred.
None of that condones what the people did at Mountain Meadows at all, but that is the historical context. Evil begot evil and it was all wrong.
BTW, the Lawrence, Kansas Massacre was a larger Massacre than Mountain Meadows...another terrible event in America’s history where almost 200 were slaughtered in a terrorist raid by Quantrill in 1863. The Yontucket massacre in California in 1853 was even larger.
All of your sources about LDS and Muslims trying to find common ground and bridge the gap I covered in my initial response when I said members do try and find common ground and reach out to peaceful muslims. Of course there are Muslim people who do not go along with the radcial Islamics. There are those too fighting in our military against the tyranny that the radical/fundamental adherants subscribe too. Sadly, some who come into our military are also Sappers, like the one who attacked the command tents on the eve of battle in iraq and killed an officer from here in Idaho in his greanade attack, or the terrorist attack at Ft. Hood more recently.
In both of those instances our PC attitude towards people who showed all the signs of their coming attacks went un heeded and unanswered and the results were terrible.
We should all try and reach out to any Musilms who honestly and completely reject the fundamental radicals, and who are sworn to and honest in their defense of our Constitution. Who themselves are also targeted for death by the same. There is nothing wrong with that and it does not mean that we ourselves are “Muslim” for so doing. It just recocgnizes that there are some muslims who we can ally with in the fight against the radical fundamentalists who are enemies of all reason and liberty.
Thank you, Jeff. Well said.
What did he say? He made the statement that lost the race, ‘Senator Obama is a nice family man not to be feared’.
They know what Obama is. They don't have the guts to go up against a black. I could see all this coming when a black man was nominated. He does what he wants and nobody has the guts to criticize him. I doubt if we EVER get rid of him.
Jeff Head wrote: “All of your sources about LDS and Muslims trying to find common ground and bridge the gap I covered in my initial response when I said members do try and find common ground and reach out to peaceful muslims.”
Okay, so let’s explore this a little more. From the first article I quoted, written by James Tanto and published on the LDS website [ http://www.lds.org/ensign/2000/08/a-latter-day-saint-perspective-on-muhammad?lang=eng#pop_001-20908_000_012 ]:
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One of the noteworthy examples of the Latter-day Saint commitment to treasure up true principles and cultivate affirmative gratitude is the admiration that Church leaders have expressed over the years for the spiritual contributions of Muhammad.
As early as 1855, at a time when Christian literature generally ridiculed Muhammad as the Antichrist and the archenemy of Western civilization, Elders George A. Smith (1817–75) and Parley P. Pratt (1807–57) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles delivered lengthy sermons demonstrating an accurate and balanced understanding of Islamic history and speaking highly of Muhammad’s leadership. Elder Smith observed that Muhammad was “descended from Abraham and was no doubt raised up by God on purpose” to preach against idolatry. He sympathized with the plight of Muslims, who, like Latter-day Saints, found it difficult “to get an honest history” written about them. Speaking next, Elder Pratt went on to express his admiration for Muhammad’s teachings, asserting that “upon the whole, … [Muslims] have better morals and better institutions than many Christian nations.” 9
Latter-day Saint appreciation of Muhammad’s role in history can also be found in the 1978 First Presidency statement regarding God’s love for all mankind. This declaration specifically mentions Muhammad as one of “the great religious leaders of the world” who received “a portion of God’s light” and affirms that “moral truths were given to [these leaders] by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.” 10
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Some folks may recognize Parley Pratt as the common ancestor between Mitt Romney (great-great-grandfather) and Jon Huntsman (great-great-great-grandfather). He was also a close friend of Joseph Smith Jr. But I digress.
Anyway, Pratt et al. appears to be going further than trying to find common ground with Islam. He and other Mormon sources are stating that Mohammed was a prophet raised up by God. This, despite claiming at the same time that God had rejected all Christian churches as apostate. So between the patristic period in Church history and Joseph Smith receiving his alleged vision, the truth could only be found in Islam?
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