There have ALWAYS been the weak, lazy, shiftless and freeloaders in every society. How that society treats them is the key to that society's success.
I couldn't agree more with this article: cut back the ineffective statist, socialist, unaffordable responses of Liberals today.
I think the old “social clubs” like the Odd Fellows, Eagles, and the like, were “mutual aid societies” in which you paid in when you could and you got help when you needed it. You had to be a member, though. The Masons and Odd Fellows I know had nursing homes.
I always wondered if it was unions or Social Security that put an end to that.
place marker
the mormon church has a very effective welfare system
and it is a closed system...if at all possible the church owns the farm, uses mormon volunteers to harvest the food, the church will own the cannery, mormons will work at the cannery, they will own the warehouse, mormons will be free labor at the warehouse
a closed system, it works extremely well, it’s very efficient
now, some of the concerns
it’s true that mormons on church welfare will donate labor to the church...all mormons are encouraged, pressured to donate labor to the church
a couple weeks ago i posted i couldn’t contact my (mormon) mom who is 82 she had gone to an apple orchard to pick apples for four days...retirees with time on their hands are a great source of free labor
they do not tell you...the farm is making money, the cannery is making money...and the warehouse is making money...hand over fist
first, all these entities have no employees, the labor is free
second, only a portion of the food goes to welfare...the rest is sold...to mormon members
i remind everyone that it is a requirement that every mormon household stock a one-year supply of imperishable food...and they recommend storing two
the mormon bishop is not a pastor, he does not preach, he has little spiritual function within a church ward...he is an administrator, and somewhat of an enforcer
if you don’t pay your tithing you will called to a conference with a bishop, and missionaries will come to your house and pray with you over your disobedience...if you neglect the spirit of volunteerism, again thebishop will remind you, send missionaries, and ask members of the congregation to pray for you...meanwhile your name and your dirty laundry are on display from the pulpit
that years supply of food, you must buy...if you are financially unable, they will get you started, but there’s no free ride...if you work an eight hour day, you can expect to work a second job ‘volunteering’ for the church in exchange for wheat and canned goods
every mormon works for the church, and if the bishop needs emergency free labor, he will say ‘sister smith, ive been praying to the Lord about you, and he revealed to me your ‘calling ‘ to polish the pews, clean the bathrooms, and mow the grass to be of service to your brothers and sisters in the church” and she is perfectly free to say no...but you find out people are looking at you with pity and concern now, members are praying for you, missionaries are coming to your house
if you’ve grown up on a farm and have white chickens, you know when one gets injured, the rest peck it to death...because the spot of red on a white chicken is a sign of something alien, and every chicken sees the injured chicken as an outsider, because its not all white
in mormonism disobedience is willfully turning your face from God...even if it’s a little man with church rank telling you to clean the toilets
in utah ive seen men on tractors plowing for the church, truck drivers hauling for the church, accountants doing taxes for the church, doctors treating patients for the church...when you have an overwhelming number of mormon owned businesses the lines of power are labyrinthian to make the asians green with envy...all working through bishops as bosses using spiritual unction to order members into service who obey under belief of higher calling, awareness of the penalties, or both
a typical mormon man works 40hrs at his job, six hours at religious services, twelve hours in church volunteerism, gives ten percent of his income to the church, and if the bishop needs more from him, he will announce a ‘calling’
i should mention you will not find an offering plate in any mormon church...”tithing sunday” falls conveniently within tax time, you bring your w2 to the bishop, he calculates ten percent, and asks you how you wish to pay...and you know what happens if you don’t
the statistic show that for the number of members the lds have they are per capita the richest church on the planet, and that is with only partial information of their holdings...but in 70% mormon utah, that state is #1 in th country for personal bankruptcies and #1 in antidepressant use from members going broke trying to support both themselves and the church...its very common for devout mormons to have their lights shut off so they can afford to pay their tithe
like i said mormon welfare is a very efficient system...it is also a very closed system...if it truly were run by ‘volunteers’ and its true purpose was to feed the hungry, it would be the wonder of the world
but while it does feed mormons, it requires much more than it gives...serves as an indoctrination tool...and a burden placed on members to educate them to be sùbservient to the church in belief of the Lords calling...also to make the disobedient rise to the top and expose them so they receive the bishops attention
plus it helps make the lds cult richer than hell
im an exmormon, i have worked on the farms, i have done stoop labor and climbed the ladders i have ground the wheat and ive turned around and paid the church for the food i help grow and harvest and can for them...its worse than free labor, you are paying for the privilege of being their slavè
my only excuse was that i was a “fool for the Lord”...i was born into the church, prevented from having close relationships with non-mormons even an abused child loves their parents if theyre the only family hes got...plus the parents are supposed to be gods...and the rest of the world is supposed to be demon-possessed
now im the one my mormon family says is demon possessed...my brothers and sisters see me as a threat to their kids and we haven’t spoken since the 80s when my father dìed
google ex-mormon with “free labor” added and you’ll get a warehouse full of personal testimonies
search for acquire and stand up for the truth...love to all mormons who hunger for the truth
peace out ~A.~
link to a thread on an exmormon support group
talking about how their relatives are working in a cannery and the use of a "calling" to get free labor
different blog
more about where the money goes
LDS Inc. owns .7% of Florida
07.18.2009
· profxm ·
Posted in Money, Tithing
My brother-in-law came to visit last weekend. As science geeks, we tried to see a shuttle launch while he was here (the launch was canceled 11 minutes before liftoff because of weather – ugh!). On the way to watch the launch we stopped by Deseret Citrus and Cattle Ranch to see the Mormon Church’s ranching operations:
LDS Inc. owns .7% of Florida
07.18.2009 · profxm · Posted in Money, Tithing
My brother-in-law came to visit last weekend. As science geeks, we tried to see a shuttle launch while he was here (the launch was canceled 11 minutes before liftoff because of weather – ugh!). On the way to watch the launch we stopped by Deseret Citrus and Cattle Ranch to see the Mormon Church’s ranching operations:
sign by main entrance
Alas, as former Mormons, we failed to consider that they wouldn’t offer tours on Sunday. But we stopped by the Visitor’s Center anyway and drove around a bit. Here’s the Visitor’s Center:
the Visitor’s Center
I knew from the Deseret Ranches’ website and this wikipedia page that the ranch was big, but actually driving around the ranch made me wonder just how big it is. So, I spent a good 10 hours or so trying to see if I could map out just how big the ranch is. After all that time, I realized it was simply too big for me to easily map out by myself. But, the research I did do provided me with some fascinating information.
First off, thanks to a corporation registration website in Florida, I was able to track the name changes of the holding companies for the ranch over the years, eventually finding the current name. It used to be Deseret Properties of Florida, Inc., Deseret Farms, Inc., Deseret Farms Inc., Deseret Ranches of Florida, Inc., Deseret Livestock Company, Deseret Properties of Florida, Inc., Deseret Ranches of Florida, Inc. (1), Deseret Ranches of Florida, Inc. (2), but it is now called Farmland Reserve, Inc.. Once I finally found the current holding company, I was able to visit the property tax appraisers’ websites for the three main counties where the ranch is located: Osceola, Orange, and Brevard. On those sites I found all the property listings of Farmland Reserve, Inc. Here’s a summary of what I found after I added them all up:
County Acres Value
Osceola 182,685.50 $763,252,812.00
Orange 64,843.57 $208,286,252.00
Brevard 41,559.66 $12,552,680.00
Hillsborough-FRI 3,952.94 $30,145,012.00
Total 293,041.67 $1,014,236,756.00
Yep, you’re eyes do not deceive you – LDS, Inc. has more than $1 billion in for-profit property in Florida. The acres convert to 457 square miles, or .7% of the State of Florida. I can’t say for certain, but my guess is that LDS, Inc. is the largest landholder in the state behind the government. For comparative purposes, Disney owns 25,000 acres (that’s all of their properties, not just Disney World), or about 1/12th of the land owned by the LDS, Inc. holding company.
To tally all of this information, I actually built a spreadsheet that you’re welcome to download and peruse. I also started drawing the land parcels in Google Earth, but once I realized just how many there were, I decided I just didn’t have the time. I did complete all the land in Orange County and started on the land in Osceola County. If you want to see the maps or, better yet, if you’d like to improve/complete the maps, you can download them here: Orange County, Osceola County. If you do download them and improve them, please send me a copy of the updated versions as I’d like to have them.
As I was searching through these listings, on a whim I decided to see if Farmland Reserve, Inc. owned any property in my county, Hillsborough, FL, which is all the way across the state from Osceola and Brevard Counties. Turns out they do (see above table). That’s in addition to the $12 million owned by “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Corporation”, which is the company that holds the churches. This makes me wonder just how much property Farmland Reserve Inc. owns. I checked a couple additional counties in Florida but didn’t find any more property.
One of the reasons I wanted to visit the ranch is because my aunt and uncle recently completed a mission there (I should have gone while they were there, but never made it). The amazing thing about the fact that they served a mission there is that they did zero proselytizing and they paid to serve their mission. So, what did they do? My uncle was a high school shop teacher. He knows how to build and repair homes. So, they put him to work building homes on the ranch. He’s round 70 years old and was working 12 hour days 6 days a week for 18 months. His wife ran some of the tours and did other odd jobs around the ranch. When I found out that my aunt and uncle were paying for the opportunity to work for Farmland Reserve, Inc., a billion dollar for profit company, I was not very happy. Not only did the LDS Church use tithing money to buy the ranch (I’m assuming, maybe it was profit from some other business venture), but now it makes people pay for the opportunity to make one of their subsidiaries money. How is that at all ethical?
To wit, the obvious question is: How does the billion dollar ranching operation of the LDS Church further its religious aims? Why does a religion need a billion dollar ranch? Anyone?
Finally, all this searching around for property owned by LDS, Inc. led me to realize that we, the MSP community, could probably put together a pretty good estimate of the property holdings of LDS, Inc. (in the US at least) fairly easily if we distributed the work among us. If each person looked up the holdings of LDS, Inc. in their county and put them in a spreadsheet, we could aggregate them and keep a running total of known property value of the LDS religion. It would make a cool little widget for MSP to display. Thoughts?
Views: 10723Post to Facebook262626262626262626Post to Twitter333333333Add to RedditSend via GmailSend via E-mail programPrint with PrintFriendlyPost to BloggerGet Shareaholic for Internet Explorer0
170 Responses to “LDS Inc. owns .7% of Florida”
« 1 2 3 4
151 The Richmeister Again says: August 15, 2011 at 10:27 pm
Hey Guys,
Thanks for the replying.
@China Blanco I’d be glad to Latter Day Main Streeters a discount from my safety warehouse, but our pricing is a bit difficult. I own another business that sells all kinds of casual clothing, like sweatshirts, t-shirts, etc.: http://sweatshirtstation.com. I just created a discount code for people who visit this page to use: mormonsareflippinawesome (Yes, the coupon code says “Mormons are flippin’ awesome”, and it’s a joke)
@Kuri I’m sure there are all kinds of arguments that could be made about how General Authorities of the Church are supported, and we’d have just as many rebuttals to any attempts to smear the Brethren. The simple answer to all of the criticisms is this: anyone who knows anything about the good men and women who lead the LDS Church also knows that they could never be seriously accused of glutting themselves upon the labors of us common members. That simply doesn’t happen.
A suggestion I have for profxm and his buddies is this, instead of rallying the troops to try to figure out how to make the Church’s good works look like they’re evil, why don’t you guys get out there and help with the next stake assignment to pick oranges, bottle peanut butter, or can food for those who need help? Your energy would be much better spent and you’d have a way better time helping instead of chucking stuff at us from the peanut gallery. I’ve helped load beef onto conveyors and packaged hot dogs at one of our meat packing plants, canned all kinds of stuff at the bishop’s storehouses, picked oranges, peaches, and other fruit at our vineyards, and thoroughly loved every minute of being able to give back after having been financially blessed myself. The only qualm I might have about all of those activities is that they always make me wear a hair net even though I’m bald, but I can easily get over that. Give it a try folks. See what it means to serve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzjvE0ehnEI
0 likes
152 Chino Blanco says: August 15, 2011 at 10:53 pm
Dude, did you call me a girl? It’s C-h-i-n-O, with an O. But the discount is much appreciated. Thanks. Weirdly enough, though, when I tried that discount code, it added 15% to the total. What’s up with that? (just jokin’)
You know, I worked on welfare farms all the time growing up. And my dad has continued to volunteer many spare hours to one church project or the other.
Here’s my question to the church leadership: Why don’t you run things so I don’t feel like my dad’s being treated like a chump? I don’t like how there are two classes of Mormons: those who give, give, give and those who profit, profit, profit. Or is there some other reason that LDS finances are stamped Top Secret?
It’s a racket.
1 likes
153 kuri says: August 16, 2011 at 8:06 am
Rich, I don’t care if GAs get paid by the church; I think they probably should. After all, “the laborer is worthy of his hire,” as some guy once said. But you’re the one who quoted scripture as if they don’t. I guess you didn’t get the memo: Now that GAs get paid directly from church funds, an unpaid clergy is no longer a sign of the One True Church.
1 likes
154 Richard says: August 17, 2011 at 1:23 pm
I have a strong feeling that Kuri and Chino (Sorry about calling you China, but my fingers seem to be trained to type those letters in that sequence. I lived there for a year and I have a lot of friends over there.) won’t change your minds no matter what arguments are made or what evidence is given. You’re pretty set on calling the LDS Church’s finances black regardless of what color they really are.
Regarding the “unpaid clergy is no longer” comment, my brother (a bishop) gets no compensation for the 30+ hours he puts into his calling. I’d call that unpaid. I get nothing for playing the organ on Sunday. I also don’t get paid to head up the scout committee. I’ve never been paid for any of my church callings, although I’ve had ones that required a lot of time and energy. In short, we do in fact have an unpaid clergy.
The essence of this conversation is the accusation made here that somehow there are fat cats at the head of the Church who are living lives of luxury and oppressing members of the Church to finance their lifestyles. There’s simply no evidence anywhere that supports that claim. I’ve seen the schedules of some of the Brethren. I certainly don’t envy the work load they carry. Frankly, the accusations I’ve seen by anti-Mormons against the leaders of the LDS Church come from a purposeful, agenda-based ignorance about who they are and what their callings mean. If your anti-Mormon sentiment isn’t based in a bedrock of unjustified contempt for the Church, I invite you to educate yourselves:
Elder Bednar describes an apostles role:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBtE5QbcDbU
Conversations with LDS Church leaders: http://feeds.lds.org/LDSConversations
0 likes
155 kuri says: August 17, 2011 at 9:44 pm
Rich, you’re the one who quoted Alma saying he never received a penny from the church. It’s not my fault if GAs don’t live that way.
0 likes
156 JJL9 says: August 18, 2011 at 8:24 am
I can’t say that I have read all 155 of the previous comments, but I read the first 50 and also the last few, and I can say that one thing is clear.
Those of you that are questioning the ethics of the Church want to appear to be sincere, objective observers. You want to put yourselves out there as not feeling any hostility toward the Church and not being prejudiced in any way, but just sincerely asking questions that you think need to be asked.
The problem is that when your questions are answered in logicial and concise ways that clearly put to rest any concerns you might have, you refuse to follow logic and reason. You twist words, you change your arguments, you cling to logical fallacies, or even to positions that have no basis.
The Lord has asked us to pay tithing. He has clarified this policy through his living Prophets. If you know this, then you also know that the blessings you receive for obeying this commandment far exceed the difficulties you encounter as a result of paying your tithing. If you don’t believe this, then fine, don’t pay tithing. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. In fact, your continued obsession that people that are struggling should be given an exception and not required to pay tithing, would injure those parties and take from them the blessings that they receive when they pay their tithing. How about you just leave it up to them to decide for themselves?
Chino, as to your question, “Why don’t you run things so I don’t feel like my dad’s being treated like a chump?”
If you feel that way, that’s your problem. Your dad is probably understands that the blessings he receives now and in the hereafter are far greater than the time and effort he is providing. That’s the way it works. We are always indebted to the Lord. When we sacrifice of ourselves for his cause, he immediately blesses us to an even greater extent. The more we try to pay off our debt, the more it accumulates as he always provides us with more than we have given. You may not know that, but you could.
0 likes
157 Don says: October 10, 2011 at 6:09 pm
There is a saying in the church…. ” Member who can’t live the gospel can leave the church but they can’t leave it alone.”
0 likes
158 profxm says: October 10, 2011 at 7:21 pm
Hi Don. If that makes you feel better about your religion, feel free to believe it.
0 likes
159 kuri says: October 10, 2011 at 10:18 pm
I know a saying too: “De Nile ain’t just a river in Egypt.”
0 likes
160 dpc says: October 11, 2011 at 10:20 am
I don’t like this post at all. I’m not sure what the issue is. Is there something morally wrong about a religious group holding a certain amount of property? To the extent that this post argues for that position, it is basically a rehashing of economic antimsemitism with a different target group. I find it shocking that such an attitude would be seen as acceptable in this day and age.
Plus having practiced corporate law and dabbled in tax law, I don’t see why the big hullabaloo about the profit/non-profit divide. Just because an organization is non-profit, it does not follow that its senior executives and directors are not well-paid or that they are recipients of vast benefits. Just because an organization is “for-profit” does not mean that it’s a big, bad entity that squeezes its customers for every last ounce of cash that it can. If the ranch holdings were non-profit, the money it made would have to go back into the ranch itself because of innurement laws. Because it is run as a “for-profit” organization, the Mormon church (as the sole shareholder, presumably) can declare dividends and reinvest that money elsewhere, possibly for humanitarian goals.
0 likes
161 profxm says: October 11, 2011 at 10:27 am
dpc,
The questions that make this practice sketchy in my opinion are:
1) Why does a religion need a for-profit ranch?
2) Why is it okay for people to volunteer for a for-profit ranch owned by a religion but not okay for people to volunteer for, say, McDonald’s?
3) Why are religions that run for-profit subsidiaries not required to report the profits and expenses from those?
4) Why doesn’t the LDS Church voluntarily report how much money it makes from this and where the money goes?
Maybe this ranch is run purely for humanitarian reasons, but neither your nor I know that to be the case.
0 likes
162 JJL9 says: October 11, 2011 at 10:33 am
1) Every single religion and/or non-profit and/or charity requires money to fund their religious and/or non-profit activities and/or charitable activities. One way to fund those is to take donations and simply spend the money. Another way is to take donations, invest the money, and generate a perpetual stream that can be used for those purposes. Sounds like an incredibly wise way to do it.
2) It is perfectly ok for people to volunteer at, say McDonald’s. Why would you possibly think it’s not?
3) Why would they be? What business is it of yours? You are not required to report your profits and expenses to the public. Why should they be? Why should anyone be?
4) Because it’s none of the public’s business. It’s none of your business. Why do you even care? Is anyone asking you to report where your money goes?
It’s none of your busienss whether “this ranch is run purely for humanitarian reasons”. It has nothing to do with you. Why do you even care?
0 likes
163 chanson says: October 11, 2011 at 10:43 amIt’s none of your busienss whether “this ranch is run purely for humanitarian reasons”. It has nothing to do with you. Why do you even care?
This post has nothing to do with you, JJL9. Why is it your business that we’re discussing it? Why do you care? Why are you wasting your time reading this post and writing comments on it if the topic is so uninteresting?
0 likes
164 profxm says: October 11, 2011 at 10:52 am
JJL9, I think we’ve had this discussion before, but I can’t find where. It is my business if religions get tax breaks. You agreed. You said we should cut the tax breaks for religions. I agreed. So, until religions lose their tax exemption status, this is my business.
As far as your other points go, for-profit corporations are not allowed to have people volunteer for them in ways that will generate profit, or they have to pay them. Internships are highly regulated by the government. The same does not hold for LDS Inc., even though the ranch is for-profit. Another case of religions being treated differently.
As far as #1 goes, well, if they are making money to give to the poor, I’d be fine with it. But you don’t know where the money is going any better than I do. So, I don’t know that that is what they are doing.
1 likes
165 dpc says: October 11, 2011 at 10:57 am
profxm- For points 1 and 2, don’t get all wrapped up in the profit/non-profit divide. It’s a way to comply with tax/corporate law in a way to maximize the money the Mormon church can get to spend on what it wants.
As for number 3, private organizations (including for-profit corporations) have no obligation to disclose their finances. Non-religious charities are required to disclose how much they spend on overhead and how much they use to benefit the targets of their charities. The only reason that big corporation disclose finances is because of securities law. It makes the financial system transparent so that corporations can raise more capital while the investors can more appropriately allocate risk.
As for number 4, even if the church disclosed its financial statements, I doubt that anyone without a finance background would really know what they were looking at. I’ve looked at lots of finance statements and they are usually pretty staid. When was the last time you looked at a 10-Q or a 10-K? Plus I can see a lot of disaffected ex-Mormons complaining (although, I admit, most likely with good intentions) about the amount spent on office furniture or vehicles or printing costs when that money “could have gone to the poor” or “tsunami victims” as though a church were just some kind of glorified disaster relief organization or wealth-redistribution scheme.
0 likes
166 JJL9 says: October 11, 2011 at 11:26 am
@163
Chanson, this is a blog. It is, by its very nature, an open invitation to seek opinions, and to foster debate. It may not be “my business” that you’re discussing this, but it is a public forum, that theoretically seeks public input. I’m interested in the most basic principles of freedom and liberty. That’s why I care. I believe that adherence to these princples brings about the greatest amount of wellbeing and even prosperity in any society. That’s why I care.
I also have an interest in what the LDS church does because I am a member, I pay tithing, fast offerings, etc… So, I’m interested. But that hardly means that the LDS Church has a duty (fiduciary or otherwise) to disclose anything to me about those ranching operations. They can disclose as much or as little as they please and I can decide for myself if I want to participate or donate to the Church.
The difference between my interest in this discussion, and your interest in the ranch’s financial operations is that this is a public forum that seeks public input. Private individuals, and private businesses, both for-profit and non-profit, are, wait for it….. wait for it… Private.
They are private, which means NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
@164
I do agree that all special tax breaks should be done away with. But two wrongs don’t make a right. I will focus on promoting more freedom and liberty, which includes removing special tax breaks, and which excludes making private information public. You can’t promote a principle by violating it.
Also, McDonald’s can organize a charitable effort and recruit volunteers. The LDS Church can recruit volunteers (missionaries or otherwise) to aid in their charitable and other non-profit endeavors. If part of those efforts include oversight of their for-profit businesses, so be it. Non-profit corporations can own for-profit corporations. I served on the board of a non-profit organization that owned a for-profit corporation. The profits from the for-profit corporation were used to bolster our non-profit activities. I was a “volunteer” board member, working for free for the non-profit. Part of my responsibility included oversight of hte for-profit business.
Again, you don’t know “where the money is going” and that’s ok. It’s not your money. Not your business.
dpc is basically right about the laws regulating corporations in the US, but I think this discussion is not about what the regulations are, but what they should be.
His point about reading 10-Qs and 10-Ks is completely beside the point. Either it makes sense to require disclosure or it does not. In my opinion, it does not. He also mentions securities laws and says that “it makes the financial system transparent so that corporations can raise more capital while the investors can more appropriately allocate risk.” If this were the case, you wouldn’t need a law to enforce it. Congress should not care if a company can raise capital. The company does care. The company should do whatever they think potential investors require to attract investment. Investors should invest in whatever companies they are comfortable investing in. If Company A discloses everything, that naturally reduces the risk of the investment. If Company B does not, that’s Company B’s problem, not mine, and not the US Government’s. If an investor does not want to invest because the potential risk is deemed too high because of the lack of disclosure, then he/she does not have to invest. Pretty simple.
0 likes
167 chanson says: October 11, 2011 at 11:38 amthis is a blog. It is, by its very nature, an open invitation to seek opinions, and to foster debate.
Exactly. I’m glad to see you’ve figured out the answers to the questions you posed in the end of @162.
0 likes
168 Chino Blanco says: October 11, 2011 at 11:50 pm
As long as there are other churches that keep open books, it ought to come as no big surprise when some folks wonder why tscc doesn’t.
0 likes
169 S Colby says: January 11, 2012 at 12:30 pm
So what? Is there ap oint to this information. The LDS Church owns lots of land and produces product on this land. It also feeds people from this land.
It has owned this land for decades and decades. It like other land owners ahd maintained th land and taken cre of the land. Whether theLDS Church is a church or other organization, it has properly used the land and not let it run down. It is not doing anything illegal. Is there a purpose to slamming the LDS church here. Would you be doing the same if it was Disney or an individual or the Catholic church? I doubt it!
Your comment that the place was closed on Sunday for tours was telling in itself. As if this was wrong, so what if the LDS ranch is closed on Sunday. My hair dresser is closed on Sunday and Monday big deal. My fabric store is closed on Saturday to observe Sabbbath. Are you going after them for that?
0 likes
(latterdaymainstreet.com)
The Church is registered as both a charity and a company, and as such it is required to be registered with the Charity Commission and Companies House. It is also obliged to publish year-end accounts of it's activities. Interestingly the Church was one of a number of charities that was censured for late returns of it's accounts for 2004. As each charity has 10 months from the end of the year to submit its report we will have to wait until 31st October to find out how the church faired in 2005.
The Church has three charities that are currently registered;
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Great Britain) The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Welfare) LDS Family Services (UK) Ltd.
Each of these organisations is wholly owned by two parent companies; The Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (aka Gordon "The Hammer" Hinckley) and The Corporation of the Presiding Bishop of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (aka David "The Bruiser" Burton), both of Salt Lake City, Utah.
If you scroll down each of these links you will see a further link where you can view the yearly reports for each organisation. The COJCOLD (Welfare) also owns three additional, separate companies (not charities). These are;
AgReserves Ltd Farmspeed (Southery Anchor) Ltd Hallwsworth (Farmland Trust) Ltd
You can search for basic details of these companies here. You also have the option of paying £1 per document to look at their annual returns. I looked at a sample and will post info on this at a later date. Each of these companies are farming enterprises, and grow the wheat that we all get to buy, pack and add to our food storage.
Some of the basic info that i picked up from the accounts of the 'main' church charity include;
Surplus income over expenditure was £2,042,000, assisted by a £5m donation from the boys in SLC, leaving a balance in their HSBC account of £20,891,000.
For a church that has no paid ministry we managed to spend £7,752,000 on staff costs, in fact it was the largest single expenditure.
As well as this £856,000 was spent on 'travel', £2,301,000 on 'General administration', £265,000 on 'Materials and supplies' and £855,000 on equipment.
Despite members donating £252,000 to the Humanitarian Aid Fund the church only spent £51,000 of it. More on this another time because this sort of thing really really ticks me off.
In 2004 the number of employees earning between £70-£80k was 1; £60-£70k was 7 and £50-£60k was 12. Nice work if you can get it.
Assets in the course of construction, land and buildings, equipment and motor vehicles came to a value of £299,227,000. Depreciation of these assets was reckoned to be £52,502,000 which gives the church a net worth in terms of tangible assets of £246,725,000, a little under £0.25bn. And that doesn't include the cash in the bank.
There is an outstanding 'loan' from the parent company ("The Hammer") of £228,358,000. I used the word loan loosely as it stipulates there is no interest charge and no fixed repayment terms. More on this later as i need time to decipher the jargon; looks like large sums being channelled back to SLC but will check.
"The Church's active membership continues to grow" - yeah right. At year end there were 45 stakes, 1 District, 278 Wards and 85 Branches in Great Britain and Ireland. Compared to the end of 2003 there have been no additional Stakes, no additional Districts, 4 additional Wards, and 10 fewer Branches.
The stone that isn't rolling forth.
Continued...
Following The Money In The Uk - Part 2
Last time i focussed on the workings of the main church organisation in the UK, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Great Britain) ; this post is about it's sister 'charity', The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Welfare) Limited.
The objectives of the charity are to promote the religious and other charitable work of the church here in the UK and to relieve members of the church and others who are in conditions of need, hardship, sickness or distress. In order to do this the charity;
Invests in farms which it rents out to its subsidiary companies; any profits are returned to the charity under covenant.
Acquires land and builds purpose built meeting houses in which members can worship and receive instruction. Assists individuals suffering through hardship, sickness and distress as needed. Provides advice and guidance to church members on the church's worldwide welfare and humanitarian aid programmes.
From reading the 363s Annual Return that each company is required to submit it appears that LDS (Welfare) decided to free up some cash through issuing more shares. LDS (Welfare) previously had an Issued Share Capital of 100 Ordinary shares valued at £1 each, giving an aggregate nominal value of issued shares of £100. In 2004 they upped this considerably, increasing this to £10,000,000. All shares are held by the Corporation of the Presdiding Bishop. On 31st March 2005 the Presiding Bishop became the sole owner of the charity/company and 50 shares previously held by the Corporation of the President of the Church were transferred over. On 2nd June 2005 the company's status was changed to a private limited company.
(NB On closer examination it appears that LDS (Great Britain) also released a further £10m through issuing shares and was also transferred to the sole ownership of the Corporation of the Presiding Bishop)
Some more highlights include;
The Group (Welfare plus subsidiary companies) had a surplus of £147,000. Helped by a donation from it's sister charity LDS (Great Britain). This money went into the reserves, which now total £9,207,000.
'Direct Charitable Expenditure' for the year was £7,243,000. This is all well and good until you learn what counts as 'charity'; £5,279,000 was 'construction' costs' (remember, one of the purposes of this charity is to build meeting houses for the church) £37k was depreciation, £663k was on 'physical facilities', £322k on 'operating costs' and £50k on 'professional fees' (probably the auditors from PwC) which left £892,000 for 'charitable contributions'.
2004 was a tough year down on the farm. The trustees report that due to a wet harvest that prolonged the season there was a drop in both yield and quality, which hit profits. They indicate a 12% drop from the previous year. Yet in the accounts 'profits covenanted from farm activities' was £472,000 this year, compared with £855,000 last year. So profits might have fallen by 12% but what was passed on to the charity fell by nearly half.
Staff costs were high, accounting for £1,142,000 over the year. There is 1 employee earning between £60-70k and 2 earning between £50-60k.
As with LDS (Great Britain) there is an outstanding loan to the boys in Salt Lake, the amount outstanding on this one is £52,077,000. It appears on the accounts but there is no interest charge and no fixed repayment conditions.
The last 2 pages of the submission don't seem to have been posted on the charity commission's website, i have emailed them requesting them as this generally provides a neat summary of the year.
Taking into account all of the income and expenditure of the church in the UK i have managed to make the following calculations;
The church (GB) received £23,488,000 in 'unrestricted funds' (tithing) and £2,663,000 in 'restricted funds' (Fast, Humanitarian Aid, Missionary Support etc etc). Together with interest, profits from selling assets their total income was £27,077,000.
LDS (Welfare) received £7,433,000 (£500k of which was from LDS (GB). Taking that into account the total amount of money, from all sources, coming in to the church in this country was £34,010,000. (NB The £5m from SLC i mentioned in the previous post wasn't a donation as such, but rather a cancelled loan re-payment. No actual money changed hands)
Money that was made available to those in need by way of 'grants', 'humanitatian aid' and 'charitable contributions' by both organisations was £1,077,000. (NB I have not included the £500k transfer from one to the other, even though LDS (GB) counted this as a charitable donation, as i included it in the above calculation).
The cost of staff, travel, admin, supplies, equipment, auditing, money lost exchanging currencies, physical facilities and operating costs came to £15,507,000. That doesn't include building new meeting houses, depreciation etc.
In other words the church spent 14 times more money administering itself than it spent on the 'needy'; or calculated another way the church spent a little over 3% of it's incoming money on the needy.
Fast Offering and Humanitarian Aid Fund contributions came to £1,571,000, so even if we calculate that money church members donated specifically for the needy, the church only spent 70% of that on what the members had in mind when they donated it.
This is interesting because every now and then there is talk in church of maybe supporting a charity involved in the developing world, or that specifically helps the homeless or whoever.
There is always someone who sticks their hand up and cautions that alot of these charities spend money on their overheads, but you know that if you donate through the church that every single penny will find it's way through to those in need.
I think this has demonstrated that assertion to be unsupported by the evidence.
source - http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_missionaries_section2.html