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UK Aircraft carriers 'may get jump jets'
British Forces News ^ | 3/19/2012 | Kaija Larke

Posted on 03/19/2012 8:51:26 PM PDT by U-238

It is reported that spiralling costs for the new aircraft carrier programme could force the Government to scrap the cat and trap version of the new Joint Strike Fighter in favour of a jump-jet variant.

The Guardian and the Telegraph newspapers both report Defence Secretary Philip Hammond wants a U-turn after projected costs for modifying the carriers to take the F-35C fighters reached as much as two billion pounds.

It is understood Prime Minister David Cameron has been warned the carrier programme could be delayed by as much as seven years – or until 2027 – if existing plans are not abandoned.

The Guardian says military advisors have told him the best option is to switch back to the F35-B jump jet version, previously ruled out as inferior and more expensive by the Strategic Defence and Security Review.

A Whitehall source is quoted as saying: "There will be short-term pain for the government, but in the long run, it is by far the best option. Adapting the carriers is skewing the defence budget out of shape, and there is every likelihood the costs will continue to rise. It has to be Cameron's decision, but the military advice is clear."

The Defence Secretary is said to have “demanded a vow of silence” from all senior MOD civil servants. They have been told not to speak to the media about any military equipment programmes without his authority before the budget for next year is approved

(Excerpt) Read more at bfbs.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: aerospace; aircraftcarrier; f35; f35b; f35c; jointstrikefighter; navair; royalnavy; whitehall

1 posted on 03/19/2012 8:51:35 PM PDT by U-238
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To: U-238

By 2021 or 2027 there will no longer be manned flight jet fighters. All of this is for naught.

We’ve been told we approach a future where a smaller deck can launch several dozen drones a minute, drones that act as a single unit, that are EMP-resistant, and that can stay airborne for lengths of time unfathomable by today’s strategic bomber pilots.


2 posted on 03/19/2012 8:57:09 PM PDT by JerseyHighlander
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To: U-238

Stop unlimited Muslim immigration and stop giving welfare to foreigners and they could easily build a whole new navy.


3 posted on 03/19/2012 8:59:58 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: GeronL

I agree with you


4 posted on 03/19/2012 9:00:59 PM PDT by U-238
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To: U-238

That’s why the Harrier jumpjet was invented and it worked. Now that the Brits no longer have an aircraft carrier, they will have to build one. STUPID< STUPID, STUPID.


5 posted on 03/19/2012 9:03:41 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

You are 100 percent correct


6 posted on 03/19/2012 9:04:54 PM PDT by U-238
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To: U-238

The UK is a welfare state and that takes priority over the military.


7 posted on 03/19/2012 9:09:29 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: JerseyHighlander
"By 2021 or 2027 there will no longer be manned flight jet fighters."

Good Lord, Man......quit chewing that locoweed.

8 posted on 03/19/2012 10:27:30 PM PDT by diogenes ghost
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To: JerseyHighlander
Drones are more cost effective and eliminates the need to expose pilots to hostilities. For the same price we get a hundred fold air power.

And, we still need human pilots flying them, although dozens at a time.

Moore's law says that computer tech doubles in power every two and a half years. In ten years drone technology will seem literally like science fiction realized.

Today robotics is like the turning point when the first airplanes were introduced to warfare in 1918. Think of a WWI soldier seeing a Stealth aircraft.


9 posted on 03/19/2012 11:03:19 PM PDT by garjog
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To: diogenes ghost

Why don’t they buy one of our carriers we have in mothballs? It would be cheaper to re-furbish one than build one. The Old Kitty Hawk is out of service? We could sell it to them cheap.
They can use old Jump Jets or get some carrier planes from the old Russian Navy or from the French.


10 posted on 03/20/2012 12:42:30 AM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: diogenes ghost

Let me restate that,
I live near Picatinny Arsenal, and have heard repeated stories about active programs to design the weaponry for mass drone squads.
Based on the off the shelf design concepts by IAI it will be cost effective and optimal to further develop designs of multitudinous drone fleets. It will happen pretty quickly as the biggest stumbling blocks regarding in-flight real-time self adjustment through heuristics has already been solved, we’re already in the late alpha implementation stage.

THe 2012 Budget cuts for military programs relies heavily on replacing as many humans as possible with drones. This has been the underlying program of both Bush and Obama (with Panetta) during the last 5 years. No amount of Congressional Defense budget pork programs are going to stop this process at this point.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/07/air-force-plans-for-all-drone-future/

Also, the Global Hawk surveillance drone from Northrop Grunman was cancelled because it is already outdated technology. The speed of development in the drone field is something like 10 times faster than the man jet fighter field. BY the time the UK gets their jet fighters designed today and delivered in 2021, drones will be 5 generations ahead, far superior to antiquated 2011 technologies in the JSF F35 or F22 or whatever the UK MoD decides on eventually.


11 posted on 03/20/2012 1:03:20 AM PDT by JerseyHighlander
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To: JerseyHighlander
By 2021 or 2027 there will no longer be manned flight jet fighters. All of this is for naught.

Wait. The problem here is that a fighter aircraft with advanced sensors and performance is running into development problems, cost overruns, and in-service delays.

And you think that by adding an extra layer of complexity bu making the aircraft autonomous on top of everything else will make it easier and faster to develop?

12 posted on 03/20/2012 3:29:45 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: garjog
Moore's law says that computer tech doubles in power every two and a half years. In ten years drone technology will seem literally like science fiction realized.

Your kidding yourself. Computing power has only a little to do with drone technology. We have had drone technology for more than 60 years and honestly it has not progressed all that much. The only thing that has changed drastically recently is the public preception of it.
13 posted on 03/20/2012 7:10:11 AM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: JerseyHighlander
The speed of development in the drone field is something like 10 times faster than the man jet fighter field. BY the time the UK gets their jet fighters designed today and delivered in 2021, drones will be 5 generations ahead, far superior to antiquated 2011 technologies in the JSF F35 or F22

Nonsense. You are confusing 'development cycle time' with actual technological improvements. Just because you can crank out a prototype faster does not mean you have 10 times more improvements in aero dynamics or computers to put IN it.

I live near Picatinny Arsenal, and have heard repeated stories about active programs

Whooptido. I am an avionics engineer.
14 posted on 03/20/2012 7:14:06 AM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: Yo-Yo
And you think that by adding an extra layer of complexity bu making the aircraft autonomous on top of everything else will make it easier and faster to develop?

Drones are snazy and all... but the leap from what we have now and something fully autonomous is incredible.
15 posted on 03/20/2012 7:15:42 AM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: U-238

Nice new weapons for the Islamic scum who will soon be running things in the UK.


16 posted on 03/20/2012 7:20:44 AM PDT by EyeGuy (2012: When the Levee Breaks)
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To: U-238

Maybe they can buy some Brazilian Super Tucano fighters... a good third world solution.


17 posted on 03/20/2012 7:26:11 AM PDT by Mashood
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To: TalonDJ

So you say that computer technology has little to do with drones and that drones have not changed much in 60 years.

OK, so I did a search and understand that drones have been used since 1945. But, the most recent versions are significant improvements.

Advances in computer integrated communication is exactly what permits pilots to attack the enemy remotely using drones — and we didn’t have these computers and supporting networks even 20 years ago.

Now drones are widely used in current war zones. They can take out individual terrorists in a jeep. Why use fighters when drones can do the job?

Where am I wrong I wonder?

See this 2008 article from Military.com: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0%2C13319%2C159220%2C00.html


18 posted on 03/20/2012 9:39:22 AM PDT by garjog
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To: magslinger

ping


19 posted on 03/20/2012 10:58:59 AM PDT by Vroomfondel
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To: GeronL

The biggest recent immigration has been from Eastern Europe, although you are correct that we have too many from the ME, Africa, Asia.

We should also stop giving our own, native, lazy underclass benefits as well. Even if we didnt have any immigrants on benefits, we would still have a work-shy native underclass.


20 posted on 03/20/2012 1:35:18 PM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper; U-238

We have one: HMS Illustrious.


21 posted on 03/20/2012 1:38:46 PM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Sadly true. Although starting to change under the Tories.

Much as I despise and dont understand your vicious antipathy to the UK.


22 posted on 03/20/2012 1:40:09 PM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: the scotsman

I don’t have any vicious antipathy toward the UK just a realistic understanding of how the UK is doing its best to drag the rest of Western Civ down into the abyss of destruction. What would your opinion be if you realized that? What would you want to see happen with that country you know is doing that?

I was just listening to the AM radio at the top of the hour when they break for news this morning and heard that American citizens are now encouraged by the federal government to get measles immunization shots before they go to the UK. Why? Because there is a problem with the spread of measles there that borders on the verge of an epidemic. Just another nail in the old coffin, eh?

Now what could have caused a third world disease to re-emerge in a first world country where it was conquered many decades ago?

The UK is going to Hell in a hand basket. I’d like to see the USA break all ties with Old Blighty and just let her drift off into that abyss of suicidal destruction while we Americans try and turn things around here.

I think it is time to quarantine the UK to protect the rest of the world from her disease of Leftism. If that doesn’t work just bring out several neutron bombs and fire away. Within two generations it’s going to run by the Muzzies anyway so better to bleach the place now than rather than later.


23 posted on 03/20/2012 1:56:37 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

1—You Americans get immunized against measles as small children.

2—So do we.

3—Measles is a disease that affects a low number of people in the UK (around 1500 a year in a population of 60 million).

4—You only ‘conquered’ measles in the US in 2000!. And that didnt last long.

5—There is no epidemic!. Again, about 1500 cases a year in the UK. The growing number is mainly due to concerned parents have stopped having their children vaccinated because of recent fears about a possible connection to autism. The American advice is simply caution. Dont be so hysterical.

‘The UK is going to Hell in a hand basket.’

Really, because we look at the US and see a violent country with a much higher murder rate, rape rate, gang problem, gun crime and gun death rate and 75% of the world serial killers. We see a country with deep seated racial problems, poor education standards, corrupt politics and a media that is little short of a joke.

Dont you ever think we and the rest of the world looks at America and says ‘no thanks’?....

‘I think it is time to quarantine the UK to protect the rest of the world from her disease of Leftism’

Our Prime Minister is a Conservative. Our govt is predominantly Conservative. Your President is a Democrat and a liberal.

Who is leftist again exactly?.

‘Within two generations it’s going to run by the Muzzies anyway so better to bleach the place now than rather than later.’

Yawn. I dont know whether its sad or laughable or frightening to think that there are people like you who think the Muslims are going to rule the UK in 10, 20 or 50 years. 1.6m people are going to end up ruling the other 60m.

Sorry to disappoint you, but the Muslims dont rule Britain, and never will.


24 posted on 03/20/2012 3:20:10 PM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: Vroomfondel; SC Swamp Fox; Fred Hayek; NY Attitude; P3_Acoustic; investigateworld; lowbuck; ...
SONOBUOY PING!

Photobucket

Click on pic for past Navair pings. Post or FReepmail me if you wish to be enlisted in or discharged from the Navair Pinglist. The only requirement for inclusion in the Navair Pinglist is an interest in Naval Aviation. This is a medium to low volume pinglist.

25 posted on 03/20/2012 4:24:26 PM PDT by magslinger (If I wanted to vote for a Commie I would vote for Obammie. He has a chance of winning.)
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To: the scotsman

You are correct.


26 posted on 03/20/2012 5:02:29 PM PDT by U-238
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To: JerseyHighlander
We’ve been told we approach a future where .....

Sales talk. Buncombe and bosh.

We're going to leave our military impotent with this crap -- all because the investment bankers and Communists agreed to de-fund military and naval aviation.

27 posted on 03/21/2012 12:54:20 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: TalonDJ
We have had drone technology for more than 60 years ....

The Seventh Fleet was using Ryan Firebee "Bumpy Mothers" to deliver pairs of 500-lb love letters to North Vietnamese AA artillerists 40-plus years ago.

28 posted on 03/21/2012 12:58:23 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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