Posted on 03/20/2012 5:18:57 AM PDT by thackney
I suspect you mean either CNG or LPG, not LNG.
LNG required constant refrigeration down to -260°F or it constantly will boil off requiring venting (or keeping the engine running).
but it may be too volitile for urban or suburban areas
LNG or CNG is just natural gas, methane. LNG tends to be more pure methane because of they cryogenic freezing to make it liquid.
LPG is propane used for the BBQ.
Have the govts(state and federal) figured out a way to tax natural gas as a transportation fuel ?
This might be the road block. IF huge amounts of the public switch to this fuel, the govts. lose a big revenue stream.
Are there laws in place to tax this on the state and federal level ?
If you can fill your automobile at your house or place of work , how does the govt. tax you on it ?
That is the very first transportation app I would expect cheap natural gas to fill. Just convert to CNG, which is practical for local operations because you can simply switch the engine from gasoline to NG, which has a good octane rating, and the only real penalty is the space/weight of the Compressed Natural Gas tank. It makes far mor immeciatee sense than any other application.One transportation app for LNG conspicuously got no mention - railroads. That is another very natural app, even more so than the long-haul trucks. Diesel-electric locomotives could very easily run on NG, because diesel engines can use it directly so long as you don’t make the fuel-air mixture rich enough to auto ignite. You just use a pilot charge of diesel oil to trigger ignition. A thermodynamically very efficient use of fuel, especially desirable when gas is so relatively cheap.
Use of LNG to fuel ships also sounds like a winner.
Link?
Clean Energy (T. Boone Pickens) is building over 100 LNG stations to put the claim on the that market.
http://www.cleanenergyfuels.com/pdf/CE-OS.ANGH.012412.pdf
The first phase includes 150 fueling stations with approximately 70 anticipated to be open in 33 states by the end of 2012 and the balance in 2013.
Make fertilizer........we can harvest the energy later.........
Isn’t one of the byproducts of burning natural gas water vapor, a so called greenhouse gas?
Yes, Shell is using them in Qatar and another location.
The process economically competes at locations where the essential market is making LNG to ship to another location.
It doesn’t compete economically in a market where the natural gas can be used without an LNG conversion cost.
Construction of the world’s largest gas to liquids (GTL) plant, Pearl GTL in Qatar, is a major step towards meeting the world’s growing demand for cleaner energy.
http://www.shell.com.qa/home/content/qat/products_services/pearl/
It’s funny that there is no leftist jihad against things that produce water vapor when nearly ALL of the atmospheric greenhouse gas effect comes from water vapor.
Of course, you can’t tax water... yet.
Yes, it needs insulated tanks that will keep it from getting warm before it's used. In a dual-fuel vehicle (like UPS's LNG trucks), you fill up with not more than the amount of LNG you expect to use in the next few hours, and then when it's done you use gasoline/diesel. With commercial vehicles, you have a good idea of how much fuel you will use that day, and can fill up accordingly.
Only for a defined time, before you have to vent or use. Insulation is not refrigeration. The heat is flowing in, but at a reduced rate.
What is done with Vehicle tanks is that tank is also built to contain a build up of pressure as the boil off occurs within the tank.
It will continue and build in pressure. In the US and Canada, vehicle LNG tanks must be able to contain the vapor build up of pressure for 5 days. Past that point, it is going to vent; either into a recovery system or into the atmosphere via a safety pressure valve.
What is Boil-off?
http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2011/wp29grpe/LNG_TF-02-06e.pdf
See page 2 of 5
Want to really screw things up? Shell, BP and other oil companies should produce their own vehicles that runs on LNG and then add capabilities to their gas stations.
Become self contained.
Boy would that piss off Government Motors.
CNG is a far better fuel for residential vehicles over LNG.
Same fuel source, natural gas. Less expensive to create, no need to vent fuel over time without use.
LNG is a better choice for commercial type use, running most of the day, on nearly every day. It has better range/volume and dealing with the cryogenic temperatures (-260°F) is not for the casual user.
Interesting they made claims $1.50 or $1.60 per gallon five years ago and don’t seem to have done anything with it since.
Natural gas would make an ideal clean motor fuel for city and school buses, delivery vehicles and business fleets. Why not give some incentives for developing these alternatives which use existing technology instead of pouring taxpayer dollars down green rat holes like the electric cars, algae and ethanol?
#3 Is the correct answer ;-)
“Have the govts(state and federal) figured out a way to tax natural gas as a transportation fuel ?”
As it is TODAY I could fill up at the one station which allows private vehicles so the mechanism is in place at the pump just only one pump.
For those who installed a NG compressor at home you should have to pay a tax and that could/should be based upon miles driven. It could be verified each year when the car must under go it’s yearly safety inspection. At that time a check of the odometer & taxes paid could be compared to see if they are reasonably related.
GM To Launch Natural Gas-powered Pickup Trucks
(RTTNews.com) - Automaker General Motors Co. (GM) said Monday it plans to launch natural gas-powered pickup trucks in April to be sold in the U.S. and Canada. The trucks will have the option to run both on gasoline and compressed natural gas, ‘seamlessly’ transitioning between the two fuels.
The Detroit, Michigan-based company currently plans two bi-fuel truck models: the 2013 Chevrolet Silverado and 2013 GMC Sierra 2500 heavy-duty extended cab pickups. The trucks are projected to save the owners thousands of dollars in fuel costs over three years.
“The bi-fuel Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra provide customers with choices in advanced propulsion technology, and because CNG (compressed natural gas) is a clean-burning, domestically produced fuel, it has wide appeal,” said Ed Peper, general manager, GM Fleet and Commercial Operations.
Booking for the models will begin in April for fleet owners and retail consumers, with deliveries expected to begin late this year. The models will offer a range of more than 650 miles, and will be available in standard and long box, with either two- or four-wheel drive, GM said.
GM is offering three-year, 36,000-mile new vehicle limited warranty and five-year, 100,000-mile limited powertrain warranty and vehicle emissions warranty.
According to reports, Chrysler is also expected to announce Tuesday an alternative fuel-based Ram truck to be built at its Saltillo, Mexico-based plant that will travel 255 miles on CNG before automatically switching to an 8-gallon gas tank.
Rising gasoline prices have triggered demand for CNG-powered vehicles or alternative fuel vehicles. The initiative by automakers to use alternative fuel is also gaining the U.S. government’s support.
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/gm-to-launch-natural-gas-powered-pickup-trucks-20120306-00013
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