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Gun that killed Florida teen was fired once not twice by crime watch volunteer
bostonherald.com ^ | 20 March, 2012 | Rene Stutzman and Bianca Prieto

Posted on 03/20/2012 7:08:27 PM PDT by marktwain

Edited on 03/20/2012 7:21:16 PM PDT by Sidebar Moderator. [history]

SANFORD, Fla. — The handgun that killed Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black 17-year-old, was fired once — not twice — by a neighborhood crime watch volunteer, according to new information obtained by the Orlando Sentinel.

Police found a single shell casing at the scene, and when they seized George Zimmerman’s handgun, a Kel Tel 9 mm, its magazine was full, according to a source close to the investigation. The only bullet missing was the one in the chamber, the source said.


(Excerpt) Read more at news.bostonherald.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; fl; florida; georgezimmerman; martin; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
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To: Dudoight

Dispatchers have no authority to tell anyone to do or not do anything.

He was right to maintain surveilance, and you may be a nut case.


101 posted on 03/20/2012 9:03:01 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: muawiyah
There was some discussion today of OTHER MURDERS that followed this same pattern in that area, so there may be a lot more going on here than we know about at this time.

Oh please. Compared to the surrounding communities Sanford is murder central. There isn't anything "more" going on here other than a crappy part of town being under the spotlight.

The fact that there are no eyewitnesses and that Zimmerman has injuries for which he is claiming self-defense is why he is not in jail. The law is working the way it's supposed to. If the state or the feds wish to pursue Zimmerman with the existing evidence for a show trial, fine, let them pay for it.

102 posted on 03/20/2012 9:04:43 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Democrats love direct democracy until it's time to vote on something. Then they scream for a judge)
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To: lodi90

“That would be the best time to find houses with big HD TV’s which is what thieves want”

Yeah,,,,it’s tough to find houses with a modern TV. Requires extensive “casing”. They conduct hours of surveillance, to get the right house.
And they plan the burglary well in advance,, and probably do Madden chalkboards diagramming the scheme. (complete with little stick men,, with x’s on their eyes to odepict the ones they will murder)

Please.

PS,, can you guess why burglars don’t like to “case” in the windows of homes in gated communities when everyone is home for the evening? Think hard. Ask a black friend or coworker if you can’t come up with it.


103 posted on 03/20/2012 9:06:12 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: kcvl

“At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin.”

Huh?
George admits on the tape, when asked by the 911, that he was following Trayvon. He also says that Trayvon was running away and getting away. How did Zimmerman get out of his car and so far away from his car?


104 posted on 03/20/2012 9:07:42 PM PDT by snowstorm12
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To: DesertRhino

How many times can Zimmerman be heard referring to Martin’s race on the 911 calls?


105 posted on 03/20/2012 9:08:00 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Democrats love direct democracy until it's time to vote on something. Then they scream for a judge)
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To: al baby

Keltec is a gun made here in the USA and is a damn good gun.
Very reasonable in price, A good carry for CCW.


106 posted on 03/20/2012 9:09:11 PM PDT by baddog 219
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To: muawiyah; Theoria; All

Here is a link to a story a week ago where the police say that Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and head.

It also says that police took Zimmerman into investigative detention and took his gun, which was being tested.

All of the claims that Zimmerman initiated the physical altercation are just that: claims without any witnesses.

Could it have happened that way? Perhaps. I just do not see any evidence for it.


107 posted on 03/20/2012 9:14:32 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: DesertRhino

I grew up in Oakland, worked in a Radio Shack that was often robbed and saw perps casing before robbing. So I don’t need to ask anyone. You can park the rest of your jive someplace else.


108 posted on 03/20/2012 9:15:05 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: lodi90

I went jogging in my brother in law’s neighborhood. It was like this neighborhood where all the houses look the same. I was looking closely at every house trying to figure out where I was.

Do you think perhaps the boy was doing the same thing? Was I casing the houses by looking closely at them? The kid was shot 60 feet from his dad’s house.

If a big guy got out of his car and started chasing me, I think I would be scared as well. The question is whether Zimmerman should have been arrested. Because he exited his car, pursued this young man without any reasonable cause, and a disputed confrontation occurred tells me that he should have been arrested. Evidence should have been collected including a drug and alcohol test on Mr. Zimmerman - this was not done. Was Mr. Zimmerman even searched? Where is Mr. Martin’s cell phone? Cell phone records show he was talking with his girlfriend immediately before he was shot. She says Martin was scared because he wss being chased by some strange adult male. That fits the facts of this case. How the confrontation started and what occurred from there should be a matter for the jury after the police collect all the evidence that they are able to collect?
Since Mr. Zimmerman was not detained and properly questioned in an adversarial fashion (which is what police do), the best chance to collect evidence was lost. An unarmed minor is dead. A minor with no criminal record. A minor with no evidence of drugs or alchohol in his system. This child could be your child or my child. He should not just be shoved into a locker and forgotten. If he had been a gang banger that would have been the case.


109 posted on 03/20/2012 9:15:23 PM PDT by exhaustguy
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To: lodi90

I went jogging in my brother in law’s neighborhood. It was like this neighborhood where all the houses look the same. I was looking closely at every house trying to figure out where I was.

Do you think perhaps the boy was doing the same thing? Was I casing the houses by looking closely at them? The kid was shot 60 feet from his dad’s house.

If a big guy got out of his car and started chasing me, I think I would be scared as well. The question is whether Zimmerman should have been arrested. Because he exited his car, pursued this young man without any reasonable cause, and a disputed confrontation occurred tells me that he should have been arrested. Evidence should have been collected including a drug and alcohol test on Mr. Zimmerman - this was not done. Was Mr. Zimmerman even searched? Where is Mr. Martin’s cell phone? Cell phone records show he was talking with his girlfriend immediately before he was shot. She says Martin was scared because he wss being chased by some strange adult male. That fits the facts of this case. How the confrontation started and what occurred from there should be a matter for the jury after the police collect all the evidence that they are able to collect?
Since Mr. Zimmerman was not detained and properly questioned in an adversarial fashion (which is what police do), the best chance to collect evidence was lost. An unarmed minor is dead. A minor with no criminal record. A minor with no evidence of drugs or alchohol in his system. This child could be your child or my child. He should not just be shoved into a locker and forgotten.


110 posted on 03/20/2012 9:16:06 PM PDT by exhaustguy
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To: VeniVidiVici

A head a few times he called him black,, and supposedly called him a coon. I didnt keep count. ANd there are people in the neigborhood that were told by him many times to be extra suspicious of blacks.

Im just reading the same reports as everybody,, and hearing the same tapes.


111 posted on 03/20/2012 9:17:00 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: exhaustguy; All
Since Mr. Zimmerman was not detained and properly questioned in an adversarial fashion (which is what police do), the best chance to collect evidence was lost.

"Lee said that afterward police took Zimmerman into investigative detention and took his gun, which is being tested." http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Nothing-to-Dispute-Sanford-Shooters-Self-Defense-Claim-in-Miami-Boys-Death-Police-Chief-142376875.html

112 posted on 03/20/2012 9:21:32 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: lodi90

We arent talking about robbery of businesses at strip malls in Oakland,, are we? You mentioned “casing” the homes inside a gated community, in the early evening hours when everyone is home watching TV and eating dinner.

You the jive talker foo, not me.


113 posted on 03/20/2012 9:23:03 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: All

Here is the link showing that the police found Zimmerman bleeding from the nose and the head, and that Zimmerman was detained and questioned, that his gun was being tested, and why he was not arrested.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Nothing-to-Dispute-Sanford-Shooters-Self-Defense-Claim-in-Miami-Boys-Death-Police-Chief-142376875.html

I believe someone else posted it, but I said I would post the link twice, then I failed to do it correctly.

Here it is.


114 posted on 03/20/2012 9:24:53 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Its no use, marktwain, they won’t let facts get in the way. The axe they are grinding becomes dull when facts are presented.


115 posted on 03/20/2012 9:25:33 PM PDT by cport (How can political capital be spent on a bunch of ingrates)
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To: lodi90

And if you really are experienced on the mean streets of Oakland,, you probably know that robbers and thieves are lazy and opportunistic. They arent known for being thinkers and planners. If they had THAT skill set, they’d have a job.
Burglary and Robbery,, we ain’t exactly facing the Riddler and the Joker here.


116 posted on 03/20/2012 9:26:22 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: DesertRhino

Many residents — black and white — question Zimmerman’s judgment and wonder why he would have engaged the teenager at all.

The answer may lie in police records, which show that 50 suspicious-person reports were called in to police in the past year at Twin Lakes. There were eight burglaries, nine thefts and one other shooting in the year prior to Trayvon’s death.

In all, police had been called to the 260-unit complex 402 times from Jan. 1, 2011 to Feb. 26, 2012.

“He once caught a thief and an arrest was made,” said Cynthia Wibker, secretary of the homeowners association. “He helped solve a lot of crimes.”

Zimmerman told neighbors about stolen laptops and unsavory characters. Ibrahim Rashada, a 25-year-old African American who works at U.S. Airways, once spotted young men cutting through the woods entering the complex on foot, and later learned items were stolen those days.

“It’s a gated community, but you can walk in and steal whatever you want,” Rashada’s wife, Quianna, said.

They discussed the topic with Zimmerman when the watch captain knocked on their door late last year. Zimmerman seemed friendly, helpful, and a “pretty cool dude,” Ibrahim Rashada said.

“He came by here and talked about carrying guns and getting my wife more involved with guns,” he said. “He said I should have a weapon and that his wife took classes to learn how to use one

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249_p2/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy


117 posted on 03/20/2012 9:28:25 PM PDT by Uncle Lonny
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To: DesertRhino
His point is it is easier to look in a lit house while dark outside, you can see alot from the street. Early evening is when every one is up, and lights are on. Any good crook knows its less suspicious looking from the street in a well lit house early evening, than to be peering through a window close up late after the lights go out.

And the easiest and most valuable thing to see then...yep big screen.

118 posted on 03/20/2012 9:31:14 PM PDT by cport (How can political capital be spent on a bunch of ingrates)
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To: marktwain

“police found Zimmerman bleeding from the nose and the head,”

This should be a common way to find people who jump ugly on innocent people, walking near their home with skittles and tea. I find no fault in it. Zimm was wrong on the facts,,the kid was walking home.
Even if we grant Zimm that he was trying to protect the neighborhood,,, confronting innocent citizens, with NO lawful authority to detain, is dicey business. They might resist you as they have every right to.
You arent in a uniform, a cop car, etc.


119 posted on 03/20/2012 9:33:10 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: marktwain

120 posted on 03/20/2012 9:34:31 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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Comment #121 Removed by Moderator

To: marktwain

Zimmerman chased the kid down... had the kid shot Zimmerman, stand your ground would have applied perfectly.


122 posted on 03/20/2012 9:39:18 PM PDT by rwilson99 (Please tell me how the words "shall not perish and have everlasting life" would NOT apply to Mary.)
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To: DesertRhino

Crime watch signs are posted in these communities, so if you go walking around and don’t belong, there is a reasonable expectation that you will at minimum be watched and possibly asked what your business is. A simple response to avoid any problems would be “I’m visiting my dad at unit xyz”, not “F-off its none of your business”. My community, my business. However, If I did that to you downtown, I would expect you to tell me to piss off.


123 posted on 03/20/2012 9:39:33 PM PDT by cport (How can political capital be spent on a bunch of ingrates)
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To: muawiyah
Martin looks like a clean-cut kid. No tattoos, no earrings, no nose plugs, carrying just a bag of Skittles and some iced tea ~ maybe even Rush' favorite ~ Snapple?

LOL, wtf does that mean?!

These fellows fit your clean-cut description.

124 posted on 03/20/2012 9:40:28 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: cport

“Any good crook knows its less suspicious looking from the street in a well lit house early evening, than to be peering through a window close up late after the lights go out.”

Im glad you are that innocent. It should be a matter of pride for you that you do not possess a criminal mind. A good crook knows that it is generally suicidal to do ANYTHING when people are home in the evening. It happens,, but rarely.
A good criminal knows that daytime is playtime. Most houses are empty of people and full of cool stuff. They walk right up and ring the doorbell. If you answer,,”need landscaping done?”, “have you seen my dog?”,, or hand you a flyer.
If you DON’T answer,, they break in.

Oh,, and the guy who was in your house working last week. who had that sketch looking helper? Yeah,,, he noticed something ,,,


125 posted on 03/20/2012 9:41:54 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: Gunslingr3

I agree with you; guys like Zimmerman make lawful gun owners look bad.


126 posted on 03/20/2012 9:44:57 PM PDT by martinidon
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To: Uncle Lonny
In all, police had been called to the 260-unit complex 402 times from Jan. 1, 2011 to Feb. 26, 2012.

That's like once a day.

And the kid's dad let him walk to the store, at night?

127 posted on 03/20/2012 9:46:36 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: rwilson99
Zimmerman chased the kid down... had the kid shot Zimmerman, stand your ground would have applied perfectly.

Where do you get the information that "Zimmerman chased the kid down"? I only see speculation from people who were not there.

From what I read, Zimmerman is about 225, and a bit pudgy. Trayvon Martin was 6 ft 3 (according to a poster) and about 140 lbs.

My guess is that Zimmerman would have a hard time "chasing the Martin down", at least with both of them on foot.

128 posted on 03/20/2012 9:46:42 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: DesertRhino

Dude, we are talking casing, not breaking in. That comes after you identify valuables. If there is no neighborhood watch, then it is easy to walk by a house and see whats in there at night with the lights on, and no one to see you do it.


129 posted on 03/20/2012 9:47:11 PM PDT by cport (How can political capital be spent on a bunch of ingrates)
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To: cport

“Crime watch signs are posted in these communities, so if you go walking around and don’t belong, there is a reasonable expectation that you will at minimum be watched and possibly asked what your business is.”

Sounds like you would have been fine with the old Soviet system of babushkas in every building and stairwell, asking why your friends come over so ofen.

And what if you DO belong there, and are almost home? And neigborhood watch has NO business stopping and questioning people. So indeed, “F-off its none of your business” will often be the result. I want to walk alone,, with my thoughts, and not deal with your megolomania.

“My community, my business”

Try “my walk, not your business”,,, call the cops if you are worried. You see me breaking in, or assaulting someone, fine. Otherwise,, be ready to be told to go piss up a rope.


130 posted on 03/20/2012 9:50:09 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: BOBWADE
I've seen plenty of teens act aggressive toward older people here, and in GA if you dont think that other car has a gun in it, you're an idiot.

But teen judgement is an oxymoron.

131 posted on 03/20/2012 9:55:56 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: little jeremiah

Well, in my mind a 17 year old is still a child, mentally if not physically. More importantly though is that he was somebody’s child, and there is a grieving family right with a hole in their hearts they will never be able to fill. Mr. Martin may not have been a saint, but he didn’t deserve to die like that.

As to the politicization of this tragic situation, well, all I can say is that everybody (and I do mean everybody, this includes the Rev. Al Sharpton and his friends) who wants to turn it into a symbol for their favorite cause should take a deep breath and reflect upon the sheer senselessness of the whole thing, say a prayer for the boy and his family and then let the criminal justice system take it from here.

If the facts are as they have been reported (and I have no reason to believe that they aren’t) then I expect that the Justice Department and/or the State authorities will bring charges against Mr. Zimmerman after their investigation has been completed and Mr. Zimmerman will have his day in court. If he’s truly innocent, then he will have the opportunity to prove his case. Having said that, I must admit that having listened to the 911 tapes, I suspect that his goose is cooked, and rightly so.


132 posted on 03/20/2012 9:59:09 PM PDT by NMCicero
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To: cport

“Dude, we are talking casing, not breaking in. That comes after you identify valuables.”

“Casing” is pretty much not done. Except as an immediate precursor, just to make sure nobody is home. But they don’t do a homestudy, because theres simply no need whatsoever.

Break into any house there, and you will find a few new TV’s and a gaming system, theres usually a laptop, and if you are lucky some gold jewelry in the dresser drawer, and maybe a few guns.
A typical house is like a little teeny walmart,, the same exact things on the shelves, no matter where you go.
If they broke in and none of these things were there, they would shake their head in amazement, probably pee on the floor, and leave.

This isn’t rocket science.

PS,, in any case, this kid wasn’t a burglar. And Zimm was incorrect.


133 posted on 03/20/2012 9:59:54 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: Trailerpark Badass; All
Here is the link to the story where it says that Trayvon was 6 ft, 3 inches tall. It puts a whole different perspective on the story when you learn that the child was taller than most adult men.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-trayvon-martin-family-20120315,0,2583523.story

134 posted on 03/20/2012 10:02:21 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

What is amazing is that the MSM paints this guy as a racist just because he called the police about suspicious people in the past. The dispatcher always ask for a description of the subject. So the implication is if you call the police about a person of another race you are a racist.

If you are carrying a gun and someone attacks you it automatically becomes a gun fight because if you lose the physical altercation they will get the gun and use it on you.

A big high school kid could easily kill you with one punch to the head. If Zimmerman was punched in the head then lethal force is justified .


135 posted on 03/20/2012 10:03:39 PM PDT by pterional
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To: cport

Oh,,, i forgot. Burglars also stopped wearing those black lone ranger masks too.


136 posted on 03/20/2012 10:03:48 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: marktwain

Are you implying that he deserved to die because he was tall?


137 posted on 03/20/2012 10:05:21 PM PDT by NMCicero
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To: NMCicero
Are you implying that he deserved to die because he was tall?

I am stating that his being tall makes Zimmerman's account of self defense more credible.

138 posted on 03/20/2012 10:08:41 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: muawiyah
It wasn't Snapple. Arizona.

And Trayvon was staying at his Dad's girlfriends house because he was suspended from school.

139 posted on 03/20/2012 10:15:41 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: pterional

“If Zimmerman was punched in the head then lethal force is justified”

Unless of course, HE started and pursued the confrontation causing the kid to try to defend himself against him. NO right to self defense when you are the aggressor.
Bet a paycheck it went like this, he got out to confront the kid. Considering his comments that the kid had his hand by his waistband, he probably had the gun in hand. (making the common mistake that a pointed gun is a magic obedience ray)

Sometimes it is, but some people run, freeze, pee their pants, cuss,,, and some fight. If he was close enough, the kid might have jumped the unknown nut pointing a gun at him,,, and in the ensuing struggle, he lost. Sad.

Basically,,, the kid was new, and didn’t know Zimm. And Zimm didn’t know him. But the kid was doing nothing manifestly wrong,,, and things would been fine if Zimm woulda watched him from a distance. No reason to think the kid would have attacked uniform cops. He would have known who they were,, and that he was doing nothing wrong.
Zimm perfectly illustrates why neighborhood watches should just observe and report.
Also, in about 60 feet, Zimm woulda seen the kid walk into his house.

One thing to remember,, the kid was NOT in someones yard, looking into a window,, etc. There was simply nothing criminal occurring.


140 posted on 03/20/2012 10:19:41 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: Mariner

Yes, but many people then pull the magazine out and put another bullet in. That’s the “15+1” you see in descriptions as to how much ammo the gun can hold - the 1 is the one in the pipe.


141 posted on 03/20/2012 10:27:56 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: DesertRhino
How about that Zimmerman was tape recorded, stalking him,, pissed off that the “assholes always get away” and there’s in not the slightest evidence that the kid was doing anything wrong, or seeking a confrontation.

Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch, called to watch, and called 911. Describing that as "stalking" him is a flat-out lie. IF he ever said “assholes always get away” (and you provided no cite), it could easily be the reason why he was on the neighborhood watch - so they wouldn't get away. And if someone called him to watch, and this guy was acting strange, checking out houses, then he should be watched.

Criminals don't like being watched. It pisses them off, and they are known to attack the watcher. THAT is what seems to have happened, from the 911 tapes themselves.

Where is your evidence that the bully wasn't the "kid," and Zimmerman wasn't defending himself? Who was the neighborhood watch calling 911, and who was the stranger checking out houses at night?

Your reasoning is ass-backwards and you know it.

142 posted on 03/20/2012 10:33:03 PM PDT by Talisker (He who commands, must obey.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

but when the gun is fired, one case ejects and a new live round is stripped from the mag, leaving it one round less than full.


143 posted on 03/20/2012 10:37:26 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: NMCicero

Unfortunately 17 year olds commit all kinds of violent crimes increasing in numbers. And black males particularly.

Hopefully the truth will be found out and justice done, which unfortunately is increasingly rare, and with the race pimps slavering to turn it into a hatefest, is more nad more doubtful, esp. with the racist DOJ getting involved.

And hoping that Sharpton and others of his ilk will ever reflect on anything other than fomenting race hatred and their own lust for power is nothing but silly talk. They’re wedded to their hatred and nothing will ever change them.


144 posted on 03/20/2012 10:37:49 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

I was talking about how much a gun can hold, not how it operates.


145 posted on 03/20/2012 10:40:00 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: DesertRhino

If I tell you I am from the neighborhood watch, ask your name and what you’re doing, and you come at me, hit me, knock me down and continue attacking me, I’m going to shoot you.


146 posted on 03/20/2012 10:42:57 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Josa

Zimmerman is hispanic, not white.


147 posted on 03/20/2012 10:43:13 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: marktwain

Sure, I can understand why Mr. Zimmerman might have felt threatened once he realized he had bitten off more than he could chew. The problem as I see it is that he put himself in that situation. (And I base my conclusion from the 911 tapes)

There is no reason to believe (based on the evidence available at this time) to think that Mr. Martin was guilty of anything except being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Mr. Zimmerman appears to have been looking for a confrontation, and he found one.

I won’t speculate further as to his state of mind, but I will say that even if his actions could be considered self-defense under the laws of the State of Florida, the fact that he was acting in some sort of official capacity (presumably the neighborhood watch enjoys some official sanction) may in fact make this a civil rights issue, and the involvement of the Justice Department may be appropriate, particularly given the fact that the local police seem to be firmly in his corner for reasons that we can only speculate about.

In any case, a law that permits someone to start a fight and then kill the person they attacked if the fight doesn’t go their way is insane and needs to be changed.

Anyway, I can’t imagine what the young man’s parents are going through right now. I just cannot fathom what it must be like to see your son gunned down like a dog in the street and then watch his killer walk away a free man.


148 posted on 03/20/2012 10:45:43 PM PDT by NMCicero
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To: Secret Agent Man; Mariner
You were responding to post 31 in which mariner stated, quite correctly, that once you pull the trigger in a semi-automatic pistol, the magazine will no longer be "full," like the article suggests. He was saying the article containeed facts that can't possibly be true, unless Zimmerman topped off the magazine after shooting.

What were you trying to say?

149 posted on 03/20/2012 10:47:43 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: NMCicero
In any case, a law that permits someone to start a fight and then kill the person they attacked if the fight doesn’t go their way is insane and needs to be changed.

What evidence is there that Zimmerman started a fight. His head wounds?

150 posted on 03/20/2012 10:52:11 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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