I think I heard somewhere that Zimmerman had lost site of Martin when last talking to the operator. I suspect that Martin was hiding nearby at that point and jumped out and attacked Zimmerman.
Not that it really matters. Even if Zimmerman started the fight, he would still have the right to defend himself if during the fight he felt that his life was in danger.
example:
I start a fight with someone.. he gets me on the ground and starts to choke me to death... I don’t have to let him kill me just because I started the fight, I have the right to defend my life even if I started the fight.
Just to complete the picture, in your hypothetical, you might be found justified in defense of your life (it'll be a fact-specific inquiry, up to the jury), but you will still have committed a tort or a crime, that of starting a physical altercation.
The key to this situation is the law. In your sample case, you start a fight and then use force to prevent yourself from being killed when you are losing big time.
Are you guilty of murder or self defense?
The answer is... IT DEPENDS.
In MO, the lethal force laws require the user of force NOT to be the initiator (RSMO 563) and IF one was indeed an instigator, and then, having broken off his attack, is counter-atacked, he may then indeed be able to claim self defense. The issue would be what constituted “breaking off”-fleeing, saying uncle, what?
That is where the fine teeth of the law are aplied by first the Police who are first on the scene, then the investigators, then the Prosecuting Attny, then a grand jury. Arrest may occur at any point.... But certainly if and when the GJ forwards a recommendation of charges....
The SYG law in FL is notwhithstanding, I think, if Z indeed had initiated (meaning attacked, not just trailed etc) then he may be in jeopardy of murder or other charges, unless he subsequently broke of the engagement and attempted to depart etc as described above (if FL law is similar).
As I undersdtand it, the GJ in this case meets in April and will have the duty to review the facts for PC and either bill or no bill Zimmerman.
The feds will likley act the clown either way-
My personal opinion based on what I have read/heard (tapes) is that Z follwed M in his car until M disappeared around a building, then M sneaked up n and attacked Z, gaining a lethal advantage (on back, bloodied w/head wounds, beaten down) and Z eventually shot him. I may be wrong, but my understanding based on the information available(not all facts , I think).
Evidence, witness statements and forensics will be the clincher to the truth, but popular opinion has long been known to twist that quite well.
My recommendation is patience. Let the process work thorough. I have faith in my fellow citizens, but outside influence may hurt the truth one way or another.
The stat/feds should be looking to quell the conspriacy to commit kidknapping and murder etc, even if Z is guilty of murder. I won’t be holding my breath...
That's actually wrong. I haven't read other responses to this yet. But if you instigated the crime, you are responsible for all consequences following the instigation. It is why if two thugs rob a convenience store and one of them is killed in the act, the other is also charged with the homicide, not the shooter.
Gun owners who carry have a very special responsibility when carrying. It may be unwritten, but you do have to avoid confrontation and nearly all costs. For the simple fact that you may be equipped with the force multiplier that can be construed as the motivation for the confrontation. It's dicey at best.
I do have a license and do carry. I was present and packing one time when a brawl broke out in a bar. There was a member of the group I was with involved. Others or our party tried to break it up. I immediately left and said a prayer that all would be ok. I didn't know who started it or what it was about. But stitches and an assault charge were far better than the risk of someone getting shot with the gun I had conealed. My best intentions would not have mattered in court had I gotten involved. Turns out, my "friend" who was drunk, commented on how slutty a girl was dressed while playing darts.