Cain Swirling rhetoric War of Words in Trayvon case must stop facts are needed before rushing

cainconnections.com ^ | 26 March, 2012 | Herman Cain

[Osage Orange]

Following people ON FOOT is aggressive?

I've followed plenty of people ON FOOT. And never was I aggressive.

And I've had people follow me in cars / trucks....that I took to be aggressive.

Your logic is lacking..........

[Rooivalk]

>How do you know that is all he did? What evidence can you provide that Zimmerman didn’t have some sort of verbal exchange with Martin that led to the physical fight and Zimmerman drawing the weapon he was carrying?

There is a witness that backs up Zimmerman’s account that he was on his way back to his truck when Martin jumped him.

Every witness that has come forth to date has claimed they only witnessed the LAST MOMENTS of the fight. Noone has come forth and said they witnessed Zimmerman's FIRST approach to Martin. Nor has anyone witnessed when Zimmerman FIRST emerged from his vehicle. So you are attempting to talk about things that noone has provided real evidence of. Nothing would have happened had Zimmerman stayed in the car and let the police handle things

Nothing would have happened if Martin had not thrown a punch.

Actually nothing would have happened had Zimmerman followed the advice of the police dispatcher and stayed in his vehicle. That seems to be some hard logic for you to accept.

Since Martin did not attack Zimmerman inside his vehicle there would never have been any "first punch" had Zimmerman not tried to engage Martin on foot.

Lets see you refute that fact

[SZonian]

"Why wasn't Zimmerman given a field sobriety test?"

Don't care.

"Was he under the influence of something?"

Don't care.

"What can you tell us about that?"

Not my claim to buttress.

"Why wasn't Zimmerman's weapon seized and held as part of the investigation?"

Don't care.

I'm waiting for your source that the police officers on scene and Mr. Zimmerman were "laughing and smoking" in the aftermath.

That Mr. Zimmerman was never placed into custody, to which, I posted a copy of the police report refuting your scurrilous accusations.

Now, when can I expect you to post the source(s) to your accusations against the Sanford PD officers and Mr. Zimmerman?

[Rooivalk]

Cite any relevant statute which states that following someone on foot is either illegal or aggressive. Good luck with that.Anytime you follow or otherwise interfere with the legitimate progress of a person just walking down the street you are outside the law

Some call it stalking. And without any authority to follow on foot Martin, Zimmerman could be considered a stalker

>And the police dispatcher saw trouble coming and advised Zimmerman to stay in his car.

We’ve dealt with that enough times that it doesn’t bear repeating. A suggestion is just a suggestion.

So when the police tell you something you regard it as a "suggestion"? Please!

Once again, the key point- who threw the first punch?

There would have been no "first punch" had Zimmerman stayed in his vehicle. Right? Zimmerman was not punched inside his car. So why was he on the streets where he could get punched?

[Cvengr]

Thanks for the link. I couldn’t pull up 2 .pdfs.

It would be interesting to see the crime stats,... If Burglary rates fell after the shooting.

[Rooivalk]

"Why wasn't Zimmerman given a field sobriety test?" Don't care. "Was he under the influence of something?" Don't care. "What can you tell us about that?" Not my claim to buttress. "Why wasn't Zimmerman's weapon seized and held as part of the investigation?" Don't care.

So what we have here is a BS sham "investigation" that is now being exposed as garbage and no where near the level of good police work

Routine police investigations after a life has been taken take into account all those things I listed and MORE.

And you wonder why people are howling for a true and through investigation? For police to just take the word of Zimmerman while the other half of the story lies silent in the morgue is total nonsense. The real story of Zimmerman's actions that night have yet to be told

[Rooivalk]

Now, when can I expect you to post the source(s) to your accusations against the Sanford PD officers and Mr. Zimmerman?

To use your words when I posed questions to you: Don't Care

[Rooivalk]

Following people ON FOOT is aggressive? I've followed plenty of people ON FOOT. And never was I aggressive. And I've had people follow me in cars / trucks....that I took to be aggressive. Your logic is lacking..........

Have you ever followed a person when the police directly told you not to?

Didn't think so

[SZonian]

I DON'T CARE ABOUT ANY OF YOUR OTHER BS...

I want to see the proof/source(s) of your slander against the Sanford PD officers and Mr. Zimmerman "laughing and smoking" after Martin was shot.

Dancing Queen

[SZonian]

SPIT.

You’ve slandered the Sanford PD and Mr. Zimmerman then.

Thanks for showing that you don’t have the sources to back up your claim.

[khelus]

You’re welcome.

I’d try again on the pdf’s. I was able to download them all. I suspect that by now word’s gotten out and that site has become very popular.

Yes those stats would very interesting.

[Rooivalk]

You first sport. You made the claims, I’m asking for your source. I just posted the link to the police report on another post. Now you get to back up your scurrilous claims against not only Mr. Zimmerman, but the investigating officers you smeared with your slander as well. But as I’ve seen, you’re quite the dancer. Dancing around the questions posed to you.

Here is a "report" from a police department that failed to give Zimmerman a blood alcohol test or at least a field sobriety test or a drug test and I am supposed to accept this?

Here is a "report" from a police department that didn't even seize Zimmerman's weapon for ballistic tests and I am supposed to accept their conclusions?

I have actually shot at a person after a foot pursuit and KNOW what is involved after you discharge a firearm in the city limits even when in fear of your life. Among other things it was six months before I recovered my handgun. And I didn't EVEN kill or wound the person I was chasing. LAPD was very professional that night.

[Rooivalk]

SPIT. You’ve slandered the Sanford PD and Mr. Zimmerman then. Thanks for showing that you don’t have the sources to back up your claim.

Considering how you Zimmerman supporters have slandered this Martin kid I would say that I have done very little in comparison.

Zimmerman has not seen the last of this and I add my voice to the chorus of people demanding the truth and not having this thing swept under the rug.

There are two sides to this thing and Martin cannot tell his because Zimmerman silenced his voice

[SZonian]

I’ve done nothing of the kind. I support neither except the RULE OF LAW and there are some folks on both sides are going off the deep end. Being deliberately obtuse.

You made a claim, I challenged you on it and asked for your sources. Instead, you want to play kids games.

Should be VERY EASY for you to offer them up, yet, we’re still waiting.

Put up or shut up.

[SZonian]

"LAPD was very professional that night."

Did they "laugh and smoke" with you afterwards?

[trappedincanuckistan]

Have you ever followed a person when the police directly told you not to?

The police did not tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin.

The dispatcher told him he didn’t need to follow.

Big difference.

[Molon Labbie]

Rooivalk, as a police officer, I am telling you that Martin or any other citizen has a right to follow any suspicious person in their neighborhood and yes, even ask them what they are doing or who they are. The person being asked has no legal obligation to answer. Absent a private peace disturbance (fighting words) directed at the suspicious person, they don’t have right to assault the questioner.

There is no evidence that Zimmerman said any fighting words, but there is evidence that Martin attacked him anyway.

They cannot physically detain them (citizens arrest) unless they have personally seen them commit a crime, usually a felony.

Zimmerman was a volunteer with nothing that was legally binding in his “job” as neighborhood watch captain other than the normal laws any one of us is bound by.

A dispatcher has no legal authority to tell ANYONE what they must do.

If Martin ran away from Zimmerman, he can easily argue that he only ran after Martin to observe his route of travel and destination, not to detain or confront. That is still WATCHING.

[Osage Orange]

You ought to research that a bit more.....

Get back to me, when you have the facts.

Of course you didn't address my post one bit though..............

Seems reading back, that's your M.O.

[marktwain]

“Why wasn’t Zimmerman’s weapon seized and held as part of the investigation?”

It was. It is still in their custody.

Read the police report. It is “Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report” under the Trayvon Martin Investigation at the link:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.html

[aruanan]

The dispatcher told him he didn’t need to follow.

Big difference.

The dispatcher asked, "Are you following him?" He said, "Yeah." The dispatcher said "Okay. We don't need you to do that." That's a polite way of saying, "Stay the f-ck away from the guy."

Big difference.