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CNN: Today was a 'train wreck' for Obamacare
The Examiner /CNN ^ | March 27, 2012 1:03pm | Charlie Spiering

Posted on 03/27/2012 1:02:34 PM PDT by Semper911

CNN Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin said that it was a rough day for the Obama administration, as lawyers worked to defend the Obamacare's individual mandate.

"This was a train wreck for the Obama administration," Tobin said. "This law looks like it's going to be struck down. I'm telling you, all of the predictions including mine that the justices would not have a problem with this law were wrong."

Tobin said that U.S. Solicitor General David Verrilli was woefully unprepared in his defense.

"I don't know why he had a bad day, he is a good lawyer, he was a perfectly fine lawyer in the really sort of tangential argument yesterday. He was not ready for the answers for the conservative justices," he said.

"If I had to bet today I would bet that this court is going to strike down the individual mandate." he said.

Tobin was not alone in his analysis. NBC's Justice corespondent Pete Williams was also skeptical.

"It would seem at this point in the process that I think it's very doubtful that the court is going to find the health care law constitutional," he said, "I don't see five votes to find the law constitutional."

(Excerpt) Read more at campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: obamacare; scotusobamacare; scotusocareday2
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To: rbg81

Without the individual mandate, if they enforce the rest of ObamaCare, the health insurance industry will not collapse, nor will it implode. It will evaporate. Gone in thirty seconds.


41 posted on 03/27/2012 1:44:42 PM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets ("Jihad" is Arabic for "Helter-Skelter", "bin Laden" is Arabic for "Manson".)
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To: Brilliant

I think obama rushed the process because his re-election hopes are dim...he is going to run against *evil* healthcare-stealing republicans. Above all, he wants to be in power and have approval from the people. He is a narcissist afterall.


42 posted on 03/27/2012 1:46:22 PM PDT by subterfuge (BUILD MORE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS NOW!!!)
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To: rbg81

If the mandate is severed from the rest of it, Obama could just tell Congress to come up with a new source of funding if they want to balance the costs and that he’ll veto any attempt to repeal any other part of the law. Then we’d have to see if we have enough votes to override the veto.


43 posted on 03/27/2012 1:46:36 PM PDT by JediJones (The Divided States of Obama's Declaration of Dependence: Death, Taxes and the Pursuit of Crappiness)
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To: Paradox

I actually think a federal individual mandate would be very hard to uphold, even for some of the more liberal judges.

A state mandate to buy a product (such as auto insurance) is a different matter, because it protects that state from expenses, the same of which could be said of state-mandated health insurance. But this is also because an individual state does not contemplate becoming the sole provider of that product, which is clearly the aim of Obamacare. So there are mandates and there are mandates, but I think most rational judges will have to find that this one exceeds the permitted scope of federal action.


44 posted on 03/27/2012 1:48:17 PM PDT by livius
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To: Semper911

Reading the transcripts, the gummint got beat up pretty bad...
They need Obamacare!!

;-)


45 posted on 03/27/2012 1:49:11 PM PDT by djf (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2801220/posts)
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To: Semper911
U.S. Solicitor General David Verrilli

Milli Verrilli, just lip-synching the liberal BS!

46 posted on 03/27/2012 1:49:18 PM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedys=Can't drive, can't ski, can't fly, can't skipper a boat, but they know what's best for you.)
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To: saganite

Pretty much every analysis today I’ve seen or heard has confirmed what this article is stating including Jay Sekulow whom I respect very much.

What is “Scouts blog” and why should I care about their outlier position?


47 posted on 03/27/2012 1:53:30 PM PDT by traderrob6
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To: Semper911

Let’s hope this is the firsst of MANY “trainwrecks” for Obamacare, its mandates and death penalties......and for its AUTHOR.

It might hurt Romney in the primaries even more also.


48 posted on 03/27/2012 1:53:39 PM PDT by ZULU (LIBERATE HAGIA SOPHIA!!!!!)
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To: Brilliant
"I’m going to buck the conventional wisdom and say that this is exactly what 0bama and Romney were hoping would happen because now it takes the issue off the table... At least for the time being."

June is when the actual decision is released...

More to the point, the headlines then will scream that the cost is double without the now-overturned individual mandate.

Mittens could close out Bobo then and there by having a speech ready in which he admits Romneycare was flawed/Obamacare was unconstitutional and Congress must repeal/properly, the states are incubators, not the fed/how do we properly engage the real problem, extending care to the 24 mill who don't have it-won't get it-too stupid to care, and are clogging up our emergency rooms for the rest of us.

49 posted on 03/27/2012 1:54:34 PM PDT by StAnDeliver (=.)
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To: Semper911; P-Marlowe

This mandate to buy is the worst attack on personal freedom since slavery.

Forget all the other words being used. It says the government can “order” you around instead of just manipulate you around. They tax whiskey, and it affects your buying. They tax your income and then go buy things with the money you wouldn’t otherwise have bought.

With this, though, they issue and order and tell you to go down to the neighborhood store and buy 6 of these and 5 of those.

It opens the door for the government to issue individual, particularized orders.

Disneyworld is going under...you are ordered to attend disney this year.
GMC is hurting...you are ordered to buy a Volt.


50 posted on 03/27/2012 1:54:59 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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To: Drill Thrawl
That would be appropriate, since this guy is going to be your new Commie-care approved doctor.


51 posted on 03/27/2012 1:58:39 PM PDT by JediJones (The Divided States of Obama's Declaration of Dependence: Death, Taxes and the Pursuit of Crappiness)
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To: Brilliant

I think you have a very good point.

If Obamacare is sustained by the Supremes then in November, many people will be angry and vote against it by voting against Obama.

Where is that incentive if the Supremes strike it down?


52 posted on 03/27/2012 1:58:39 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: DesertRhino
But i think this is just a kibuki dance,, meant to look like they are SERIOUSLY considering the arguments....But in the end, unless one belives the USSC to be above the corruption and ignoring of the Constitution that the other two branches regularly do,,,i wouldn’t bet twenty bucks that they will overturn it.

I have the same, gnawing feeling, too.

I pray we're both wrong and that the USSC preserves and defends our Constitution and overturns this garbage.

53 posted on 03/27/2012 1:59:07 PM PDT by Jane Long (Soli Deo Gloria!)
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To: Alas Babylon!

“Where is that incentive if the Supremes strike it down?”

1. Creeping socialism

2. $4.00+ gas

3. High unemployment

4. Inflation

5. Racial demagoguery

6. Afghan war

You want more?


54 posted on 03/27/2012 2:03:29 PM PDT by traderrob6
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To: fortheDeclaration; BCR #226

“You can’t use a ‘tax’ as a penalty”

I’m wondering how far that goes.

How about taxes designed to discourage participation in otherwise lawful commerce? The $200 NFA transfer tax in particular, intended to dissuade people from silencers, short shotguns, and other fringe firearms: it doesn’t bring in any appreciable revenue (like liquor taxes do), it exists for the sole purpose of discouragement akin to a poll tax.

This “individual mandate” case will draw a line; will be interesting to see how that can be leveraged for other freedoms.


55 posted on 03/27/2012 2:06:35 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

I like your reply.... buT what majority


56 posted on 03/27/2012 2:06:51 PM PDT by stevecmd
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To: KarlInOhio
Maybe they should find the solicitor general who prepared the original defense. Where is she hiding? Oh, wait, she is sitting in judgment of this law without properly recusing herself from the case.

In debating, it is often the case that one must defend a proposition that one does not really believe in. Lawyers do this all the time.

Take, for instance, the position of being the defense lawyer of a criminal whom one privily knows is flat-out guilty, but under the law deserves the best defense possible; so that when found guilty, it will not be for lack of sloppy lawyering.

Could it be that Kagan, though as a condition of employment, and thus required to prepare the case law for Obamacare, really as a Justice cannot support it under the Constitution, and hence will not recuse herself on this??

One never knows until the final verdict is returned.

Look at other appointments: Warren (Eisenhower, school prayer, etc.), Blackmun (Nixon, R. v. W.), Souter (G. H. W. Bush, for abortion, etc liberal), Clarence (G. H. W. B., solid constructionist!), Obama (Kagan, ?????).

One might hope for a better result than anticipated --- but, ??

From Wiki: "In 1996, future Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan pointed out that the O'Brien court did not appear to be concerned whether the law as enacted or enforced 'matched, or even resembled' the asserted government interest of stopping draft resistance protests. Kagan noted that the law prohibiting the destruction of the draft card 'interfered' with only one point of view: that of the anti-war protester. She allowed as how a successful challenge to O'Brien might come from focusing on such skewed constraints."

Being a little even-handed, Kagan's preparation for the judiciary is formidable in both pragmatic and academic efforts. Who knows?

57 posted on 03/27/2012 2:08:43 PM PDT by imardmd1 (The truth shall make you, if not free, at least reasonable ...)
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To: Paradox

If individuals are forced to buy healthcare where does it stop?

Imagine the government auditing neighborhoods for old and energy inefficient windows. Afterall, everyone needs energy for their home. Why can’t the government then tax folks for wasting energy if they don’t have the best windows available?

Same with cars. Everyone driving a gas-guzzler is causing a higher demand for energy and increased costs that are passed on to everyone. Tax folks driving a car that doesn’t meet minimum mileage standards.

In fact, doesn’t everyone need a car in this country? Tax everyone who doesn’t have a car. Folks that live in rural areas all need cars. Taxing folks who live in a city and don’t need a car will help offset the cost of getting a car to poor folks in rural areas. Another benefit would be it would help the auto industry.

We keep hearing that EDUCATION is an absolute necessity. Tax every parent that does not send there kid to a 4 year college/University. Many kids that do not have a college degree end up being deadbeats(OWS) and are a drag on society. Tax the people who don’t want to go to college to help pay for the kids who do want to go to college. Hold on!, you say. Many folks who want to go to college can’t afford to go. I suggest a tax for a failure to prepare adequately for a childs education. Hold on!, you say again. I did save enough for ONE child to go to college. The problem is I have 3 children. Okay. We will then tax you for having more kids than you can afford.

You could go on and on.


58 posted on 03/27/2012 2:14:17 PM PDT by LeonardFMason
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To: LeonardFMason

They don’t plan to audit all neighborhoods, just the homes that are for sale, forcing the sellers to upgrade not only the windows, but the heating systems and appliances, as well. I believe it was part of the cap and trade bill that did not pass, but you can be sure that Obama (and Romney, too) would bring it back if they get an opening.


59 posted on 03/27/2012 2:19:51 PM PDT by Eva
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To: Semper911

Even a good lawyer cannot defend the indefensible.


60 posted on 03/27/2012 2:34:46 PM PDT by Venturer
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