Posted on 04/18/2012 2:29:47 PM PDT by TexasVoter
[B]irthers are focusing on U.S. Sen Marco Rubio, the budding Republican star from Florida.
“It’s nothing to do with him personally. But you can’t change the rules because you like a certain person. Then you have no rules,” said New Jersey lawyer Mario Apuzzo.
Forget about the alleged Photoshopped birth certificates; the activists are not challenging whether Rubio was born in Miami. Rather, they say Rubio is ineligible under Article 2 of the Constitution which says “no person except a natural born citizen … shall be eligible to the Office of President.”
(Excerpt) Read more at miamiherald.com ...
I define it as a derogatory term invented by certain American fascists in order to demonize those patriots who simply want the truth regarding his eligibility.
Even Socialist Bernie Sanders knew it required two citizen parents.
I don't know nor care where he was born, but I doubt there is a real birth certificate with his name on it.
Sophistry again on your number 1. No civil war no reconstruction amendments.
Civil war resulted in the "civil war amendments."
3. therefore, soil babies are not natural born citizens.
No, the 14th Amendment did not effect the meaning and intent behind the US Constitutional natural born citizen clause.
“Did the 14th Amendment make former slaves, noncitizens, into natural born citizens, Tublecane?”
Yes. What’s your point?
I would hope that you've come to understand by now, that the sweeping generalization you've just made is not even completely true under the liberal interpretation that you're touting.
So, you're wrong no matter who you ask. Some "soil babies" are foreigners.
This is why the Republican establishment ignores Obama. They don’t care anymore about the constitution then the Libs do.
“Sophistry again on your number 1. No civil war no reconstruction amendments.
Civil war resulted in the ‘civil war amendments.’”
But you were establishing the connection between slavery and the 14th amendment. To get there through the civil war, you must establish the connection between the civil war and slavery. Okay, though, let’s take it from where you’ve elft it: the civil war resulted in the civil war amendments, therefore soil babies aren’t natural born citizens. Huh?
“that the sweeping generalization you’ve just made is not even completely true under the liberal interpretation that you’re touting”
Yes, I admit, to be perfectly forthright I should say soil babies born subject to the jurisdiction of U.S. law aren’t foreigners. But do I really need to?
So you believe that individuals who were not even born citizens, were somehow transformed into natural born citizens, yes?
Please explain this retroactive legal mechanism, Tublecane.
“No, the 14th Amendment did not effect the meaning and intent behind the US Constitutional natural born citizen clause”
No, it didn’t. But you’re still wrong, because the natural born citizen clause does not mean what you think it means. The 14th amendment established what it meant to be a citizen at birth (born on U.S. soil subject to the jurisdiction of U.S. law), and natural born citizens are citizens at birth.
Therefore, even if George Washington thought only the children of two citizens could be natural born citizens because only the children of two citizens at that time could be born citizens, the 14th amendment proved him wrong by changing what constituted a citizen from birth.
“So you believe that individuals who were not even born citizens, were somehow transformed into natural born citizens, yes?
Please explain this retroactive legal mechanism, Tublecane”
Because they were made citizens by virtue of how they were born, and natural born citizens are citizens from birth. I could say it only affirmed the right that was always there, but I don’t need to. Let’s say they were grandfathered in, just like everyone who became a citizen even though when they were born the U.S. was British.
By the way, lucky for us no former slaves became president, nor ever would have had a chance at election. Which makes it a moot point, practically speaking. Every soil baby (subject to the jurisdiction of U.S. law) born after adoption of the 14th amendment is without doubt eligible to be president.
“Subject to the jurisdiction,” such an abused, tortured phrase at the hands of citizenship liberals like yourself.
What would you say, if you were to learn that “soil babies,” born to citizens in an unincorporated US territory, were found not to possess all the rights of natural born citizens, Tubalcane?
Since your first post was sarcasm, thank you for the clarification, it obviously negates addressing the latter part, hence the request to hear your response to the former :-)
You are winging it and not very well at all.
Ummmm, no.
He was a district attorney in Pennsylvania.
He was a libtard, Washington got duped, ever hear of Benedict Arnold?
The founding fathers didn't believe they were natural born citizens of these United States as they wrote in the grandfather clause to modify the natural born citizen clause so they could become president. The natural born citizen clause is directly referencing natural law and not positive law. The 14th Amendment is positive law, and so therefore the 14th amendment had no effect on the natural born citizen clause or did it change the meaning or intent to who are natural born citizens.
There is no need for man made laws for any nation's natural born citizens since they are from birth as no other nation can claim them as their citizen because of jus sanguinis foreign citizen laws. The NBC clause was written in the US Constitution as a safe guard to prevent would be presidents to have other foreign allegiances like Obama has. US president are to only have an allegiance to the United States.
The first Congress, and President Washington, passed the Naturalization Act of 1790 which specifically added those born abroad or at sea to citizen parents were also "natural born citizens" so if this first congress believed a simple statute could alter who and when a person is a "natural born citizen," the idea a constitutional amendment cannot is beyond lunacy.
Among the weakest foundations of Birther logic is they have no single legal theory. For some, Santorum is not a "natural born citizen" because his father was an immigrant. For others Romney is not because his father, who was never anything except a US citizen, is not a "natural born citizen" because his father was not born inside the US.
It's as "simple" as naturalized vs. birthright citizenship. Marco Rubio's citizenship was by birthright (born in FL) so he's a "natural born citizen" just like the governor Puerto Rico (born in PR to PR-born US citizens).
I wish birthers would find elsewhere to troll their crackpot theories. Some are probably from the DU or elsewhere aiming to make FR look as nutty as possible.
Or did the authors of the 14th Amendment intend to change the natural born citizen clause to who could become a US president.
You’re just winging it, too, newzjunkey. I’d directed you to The Insular Cases not very many days ago, regarding Puerto Rico being an unincorporated territory, with all the attendant consequences of that for putative VP candidates, but you’re still touting a falsehood.
For starters, see:
Balzac v. Porto Rico, 258 U.S. 298, 66 L.Ed. 627, 42 S.Ct. 346 (1922): The Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, requiring that in all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury did not apply in Puerto Rico. The right was not required in territories that had not been “incorporated” into the United States, as distinguished from territories merely belonging to the United States. “[W]e find no features in the Organic Act of Porto Rico of 1917 from which we can infer the purpose of Congress to incorporate Porto Rico into the United States with the consequences which would follow.”
Don’t make me rub your nose in it and embarrass you, newzjunkey.
Well the crackpots in the Senate put forward their ridiculous "birther" beliefs by passing a resolution to declare McCain a natural born citizen after much discussion.
They held the crazy position that two citizen parents were necessary to qualify as natural born. Of course it was a smokescreen.
In fact one of the most whacked-out birther crackpots was cosponsor Senator Obama.
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