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Can Going Without Money Hurt the Economy? One Man's Quest to Be Penniless
Good Morning America ^ | 21 hours ago | ABBY ELLIN

Posted on 05/04/2012 11:34:03 AM PDT by FatherofFive

Not only does he not have debt, a mortgage or rent, he does not earn a salary. Nor does he buy food or clothes, or own any product with a lower case "i" before it. Home is a cave on public land outside Moab, Utah. He scavenges for food from the garbage or off the land (fried grasshoppers, anyone?). He has been known to carve up and boil fresh road kill. He bathes, without soap, in the creek.

(Excerpt) Read more at gma.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 0bamanomics; economy; future; liberalism
Welcome to the future of 0banomics. Low carbon footprint. Everyone equal.
1 posted on 05/04/2012 11:34:14 AM PDT by FatherofFive
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To: FatherofFive
When I was young, they were called 'hobos'.

2 posted on 05/04/2012 11:38:10 AM PDT by evets (beer)
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To: FatherofFive

Everyone equal? We peasants maybe, but not our ruling masters who will continue to live large and well. Socialism is well described in George Orwell’s Animal Farm.


3 posted on 05/04/2012 11:39:55 AM PDT by RicocheT (Eat the rich only if you're certain it's your last meal)
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To: FatherofFive

Well, he does live in one of the most beautiful places on Earth.

I see nothing wrong at all with his lifestyle choice, as long as we recognize that if everybody tried to do this we’d all starve to death, except for the most successful cannibals.

But society can afford a few eccentrics, and his lifestyle is certainly less parasitic than the crony capitalists and welfare mooches.


4 posted on 05/04/2012 11:41:07 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: FatherofFive
Is he insane, or a mooch, or simply dedicated to leading a simple, honest, dare we say, Christ-like existence?

I don't remember Christ eating roadkill.

5 posted on 05/04/2012 11:45:16 AM PDT by Opinionated Blowhard ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: FatherofFive
That meant no "conscious barter," food stamps or other government handouts. His mission was to "use only what is freely given or discarded and what is already present and already running," he wrote on his web site, Zero Currency.

Yet another whose lifestyle choice is viable ONLY because of the aggregate luxury of our society.

Kudos for achieving a happy (for him) life while remaining extremely frugal. I can appreciate & respect that (hey, see my tagline). It's a bit skewed, however, as much of what he enjoys is thanks to the overflow of abundance from those who create value; full-on capitalism is more fair as people are more aware of exchanging value for value.

6 posted on 05/04/2012 11:51:19 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Opinionated Blowhard

Christ was also not a bit averse to accepting gifts of money, food or accommodations, or to spending money on expensive luxuries.

Christ’s purpose in life was not to just exist with a low carbon footprint, it was to do his Father’s will.

He probably also spent the first 30 years of his life working at a trade, for money. Built furniture, mostly. Almost certainly extremely well-made furniture.


7 posted on 05/04/2012 11:51:45 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: FatherofFive

So basically - he is the origin of species for the Occupy movement... except somewhere along the de-evolutionary journey, the modern Occupy folks forgot how to actually do for themselves (like scavenge food, eat what is available).


8 posted on 05/04/2012 11:54:27 AM PDT by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: Sherman Logan

Actually a stone mason.


9 posted on 05/04/2012 11:55:21 AM PDT by goseminoles
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To: FatherofFive

“new normal” ping


10 posted on 05/04/2012 11:56:37 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: ctdonath2
Kudos for achieving a happy (for him) life while remaining extremely frugal.

Other than the fact that he lives on public land (not sure about the ultimate legalities of this...), what burden is he on society? Far less than the leeches at the occupy encampment (refugee camp). Or the hundreds of thousands of leeches living in public housing, receiving government checks, food stamps, etc. who are otherwise able-bodied.

11 posted on 05/04/2012 11:59:30 AM PDT by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: goseminoles

The Bible says Jesus was a carpenter, a skilled craftsman, as was his step-father Joseph before him.

Wood was a somewhat rare and expensive material in Galilee of the time. Homes were not built of wood, they were built of stone, which was found everywhere. So Jesus didn’t built houses in the sense we think of carpenters of today building houses.

Windows, doors, rafters, tables and other furniture, chests, etc. were probably what he spent most of his time working on.


12 posted on 05/04/2012 12:03:48 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: FatherofFive

Can get pretty freaking cold in SE Utah in the winter.


13 posted on 05/04/2012 12:07:46 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: ctdonath2

He lives in a cave, but has a website? What kind of cave on publicly owned land has free electricity, unless he is breaking the law?


14 posted on 05/04/2012 12:12:42 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT)
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To: ctdonath2
he wrote on his web site, Zero Currency.

Wait? How does he get wireless in his cave? Who pays for his internet? Hobocast?

15 posted on 05/04/2012 12:13:47 PM PDT by MadelineZapeezda (If You Don’t Look Like Obama’s Son, No One Cares)
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To: Sherman Logan
Can get pretty freaking cold in SE Utah in the winter

He'll probably wind up a frozen mummy to be discovered 500 years from now.

I was in San Diego some months ago for a conference. I overheard a conversation between a young guy setting up tables at an outdoor restaurant and a 'hobo' in the neighborhood. The hobo was trying to talk the young guy out of working and just live off the streets.

The young hispanic kid just kept working. Hope he does well.

16 posted on 05/04/2012 12:19:35 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: FatherofFive
Live free or die Suelo!

"Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat."

17 posted on 05/04/2012 12:20:59 PM PDT by Theophilus (Not merely prolife, but prolific)
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To: FatherofFive

“Nor does he buy food or clothes, or own any product with a lower case “i” before it”

Sorry occupiers. No iPad for you!


18 posted on 05/04/2012 12:23:52 PM PDT by ari-freedom
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To: FatherofFive

“He’ll probably wind up a frozen mummy to be discovered 500 years from now.”

His picture will be in all the biology textbooks as evidence for Darwin’s theory of evolution.


19 posted on 05/04/2012 12:25:27 PM PDT by ari-freedom
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To: SatinDoll
He uses the Library for free that is how he did that. My local taxes goes to fund Library's in my City so it may be free to him I am paying. Somebody has to pay
20 posted on 05/04/2012 12:27:40 PM PDT by funfan
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To: FatherofFive

I feel this man is not really “independent.”

I believe that regardless of his “free” lifestyle now, when TSHTF in his life, and he gets sick or infirm, he will wind up on the public dole. Again, that is NOT being independent. Its just being “cheap.”

If he is truly willing to live through all the consequences of his lifestyle, then I applaud him - but I doubt he will.


21 posted on 05/04/2012 12:32:24 PM PDT by PGR88
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To: evets

Nah, that’s a tramp. Hobos are willing to work, they just didn’t like to stay in one place for long.


22 posted on 05/04/2012 12:46:23 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Opinionated Blowhard

I don’t remember the Romans driving SUVs down the roads either.


23 posted on 05/04/2012 12:47:48 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: SatinDoll

You can set up and maintain a website perfectly well with the computer at the public library.


24 posted on 05/04/2012 12:49:06 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Opinionated Blowhard

“don’t remember Christ eating roadkill.”

Roman Chariots didn’t go 80 mph.


25 posted on 05/04/2012 12:51:26 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (I will never vote for Romney. Ever.)
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To: Sherman Logan

“The Bible says Jesus was a carpenter”

Nope.

It said he was a worker, which was either a mason or a carpenter. Given the lack of wood in the area, and his relative poverty (they sacrifices doves, which was for the poor) he was most likely a mason.


26 posted on 05/04/2012 12:54:41 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (I will never vote for Romney. Ever.)
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To: Boogieman
They been stealin' them pies!

27 posted on 05/04/2012 12:55:41 PM PDT by evets (beer)
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To: MadelineZapeezda

He must find his way to the Public Library!


28 posted on 05/04/2012 1:00:33 PM PDT by Sioux-san
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To: SatinDoll; MadelineZapeezda

He uses a public computer w/Internet at the local (?) library.

Seems he does come out of his cave on occasion.


29 posted on 05/04/2012 1:00:56 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: TheBattman

Hence my kudos. He is untaxable and, per his own philosophy, takes from society little more than what happens to fall off the truck. I’m nigh unto jealous (but you’ll get my 3G iPad when you pry it from my cold dead fingers).


30 posted on 05/04/2012 1:04:16 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: evets

Hobo: Homeless Bohemian. Not so different from today. Except that a lot of people that were driven from respectable society by cruel fortune were called bohemians, which they weren’t.

Bobo: Bourgeois Bohemian. Another one of my favorites.


31 posted on 05/04/2012 1:04:23 PM PDT by ichabod1 (Cheney/Rumsfeld 2012)
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To: Opinionated Blowhard
I don't remember Christ eating roadkill.

How about the guy who baptized Christ?

32 posted on 05/04/2012 1:05:17 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (When we cease to be good we'll cease to be great. So vote for Goode.)
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To: FatherofFive

we should be glad that Dan Rather has been successful in finding a new way to live.


33 posted on 05/04/2012 1:11:19 PM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: FatherofFive

I have to say I identify with this guy some what because I live a frugal lifestyle... about as frugal a lifestyle as a person possibly can without entering a cave.

Actually that’s not true. I do live in a cave...kind of a fiberglass cave. when I saw which way the 2008 election was going, I bought a fixer upper sailboat for about 4.5 k. still some engine work, but getting her ready to go... gotta have options.

Very cheap way to live, if you have a positive attitude and minor handyman skills a big plus. Liveaboard community is very helpful to people starting out as long as they’re cool. if rip offs for a holes come among them they can get a little wild west to cleanse the community so to speak.


34 posted on 05/04/2012 1:12:30 PM PDT by AnTiw1 (Men who stand firm against an army of thousands, run when a tiger appears among them. ~ShirKhan~)
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To: FatherofFive
his idea that money is an illusion," Sundeen said. "The Fed just prints it up, it doesn't mean anything and it's going to lead us down the road to serfdom.

Wealth is different from money. Man by nature possesses the faculty of reason and is a rational being. Wealth is the term for economic goods that function to satisfy natural needs and acquired desires of people who desire to live the life proper to a rational being. The needs and desires for wealth are limitless.For those who practice asceticism, which claims to find value in self-denial for its own sake, there is nothing to say except that wealth is the means to better health and longer life, as well as to greater enjoyment of life. Thus, the value of wealth is logically implied in the very concept of human values which presupposes the existence of living human beings who value their lives.

In a modern division of labor society, money is necessary as an efficient means of indirect exchange. And money enables the division of labor to radically intensify-to the point where each individual finds it to his interest to produce or help to produce just one or at most a very few things, for which he is paid money, which he in turn uses to buy from others virtually all that he himself consumes.

35 posted on 05/04/2012 1:12:36 PM PDT by mjp ((pro-{God, reality, reason, egoism, individualism, natural rights, limited government, capitalism}))
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To: FatherofFive

If all 7 billion people on the planet became this type of scavenger we’d need about 500 more Earth-type planets to sustain them all.


36 posted on 05/04/2012 1:20:19 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: FatherofFive

His vices would have to be at an all time low:
No cigarettes
No drugs
No alcohol
No chew tabacco
No coke
No DEODORANT - phew!


37 posted on 05/04/2012 1:24:19 PM PDT by conservativesister
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To: ichabod1; Boogieman
Ha ha. This is getting complicated:
Hobos will work, tramps might work, bums don't work...

Freddie the Freeloader... clown?
38 posted on 05/04/2012 1:24:22 PM PDT by evets (beer)
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To: FatherofFive

Maybe not exactly the lifestyle of the guy in the article, but he sure brought this song to MY mind!

King of the Road:

Trailers for sale or rent
Rooms to let...fifty cents.
No phone, no pool, no pets
I ain’t got no cigarettes
Ah, but..two hours of pushin’ broom
Buys an eight by twelve four-bit room
I’m a man of means by no means
King of the road.

Third boxcar, midnight train
Destination...Bangor, Maine.
Old worn out suits and shoes,
I don’t pay no union dues,
I smoke old stogies I have found
Short, but not too big around
I’m a man of means by no means
King of the road.

I know every engineer on every train
All of their children, and all of their names
And every handout in every town
And every lock that ain’t locked
When no one’s around.

I sing,
Trailers for sale or rent
Rooms to let, fifty cents
No phone, no pool, no pets
I ain’t got no cigarettes
Ah, but, two hours of pushin’ broom
Buys an eight by twelve four-bit room
I’m a man of means by no means
King of the road.


39 posted on 05/04/2012 1:25:07 PM PDT by TEXOKIE
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To: SatinDoll

I heard about this guy. He is a dumpster diver, lives in a cave, and uses the computers at a public library to publish a blog about his unusual money-free existence. This kind of existence is pretty hard on one’s body and it will likely shorten his life somewhat.


40 posted on 05/04/2012 1:30:46 PM PDT by bopdowah ("Unlike King Midas, whatever the Gubmint touches sure don't turn to Gold!')
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To: Buckeye McFrog

Nah, a lot of folks would just die, then we’d have plenty of room to spread out.


41 posted on 05/04/2012 3:04:45 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: FatherofFive
Schizophrenic....vegan...parasite.
42 posted on 05/04/2012 3:50:15 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: evets

Freddie the Freeloader: Mime.


43 posted on 05/06/2012 6:18:57 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Cheney/Rumsfeld 2012)
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To: FatherofFive

Nothing left to tax on this guy.....except his BREATHING!!!!!

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/03/taxing_us_for_breathing.html


44 posted on 05/06/2012 6:22:13 AM PDT by mo (If you understand, no explanation is needed. If you don't understand, no explanation is possible.)
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To: FatherofFive

I was in San Diego a year and a half ago, in the Gaslamp Quarter, which for those who haven’t been there, is a nice, higher end restaurant and club/pub area in an historic area downtown near the waterfront.

I was amazed at the number of “urban outdoorsmen” the city allowed to congregate in the area, to the point where they literally took over some nice small parks in the area. It was as bad as Seattle from this standpoint, which surprised me, as San Diego has a reputation of being a much more conservative place politically.


45 posted on 05/06/2012 6:33:42 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: FreedomPoster
Portland, Pioneer Square was crawling with "homeless" the last time we were there. Until it rains, then they go under the Burnside bridge (looked like that was probably the place to go for a bag of smack too, a lot of "commerce" was apparent). I'm not sure how anyone noticed when "occupy" came to town.

In San Diego I bet the handouts are better. Conservative folks tend to be more generous and giving,liberals expect "everybody else" to do it.

46 posted on 05/14/2012 6:51:05 PM PDT by Clinging Bitterly (We need to limit political office holders to two terms. One in office, and one in prison.)
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