Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Red Badger
Converting CO2 into methane, methanol, or some similar compound is nothing really new. "Producer gas" used to be made that way, until it was displaced by cheaper natural gas. All such schemes founder on the fact that you can't get more energy out of the resulting "fuel" than was used to make the fuel. Unless the energy comes from some source that doesn't itself release CO2 (nuclear, hydropower, etc.), you're right back where you started.
7 posted on 06/15/2012 11:33:24 AM PDT by JoeFromSidney ( New book: RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY. Buy from Amazon.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: JoeFromSidney

Exactly! NET negative calories.

WHY is this a good idea??????


8 posted on 06/15/2012 11:37:05 AM PDT by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur: non vehere est inermus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies ]

To: JoeFromSidney
Unless the energy comes from some source that doesn't itself release CO2 (nuclear, hydropower, etc.), you're right back where you started.

If you create easily used hydrocarbons during the low power usage times at power plants for use in auxillary generators or portable engines like cars, you can come out ahead of where you are today. Coal plants are difficult to turn on and off, so if you run them at constant output and run the excess into one of these for later use you can make the whole process more efficient. Is it a net energy loss? Yes, but less that the alternative of just making steam without turning a turbine to keep the plant running.

12 posted on 06/15/2012 11:47:56 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (You only have three billion heartbeats in a lifetime.How many does the government claim as its own?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies ]

To: JoeFromSidney

Yep -

And when back when in organic chemistry III, all of our tests involved manufacturing a desired complex organic molecule from methanol or methane, and catalysts. Point being, the chemistry to go from methanol to most any other organic molecule is well defined.


13 posted on 06/15/2012 11:51:23 AM PDT by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies ]

To: JoeFromSidney
All such schemes founder on the fact that you can't get more energy out of the resulting "fuel" than was used to make the fuel.

Yep, just like ethanol.

Unless the energy comes from some source that doesn't itself release CO2 (nuclear, hydropower, etc.), you're right back where you started.

In one way, this product (method) is just like ethanol -- without raping the taxpayer, neither would ever come to market.

We have thousands of years of cheap, abundant energy sources. Let the market decide, not leftist or RINO politicians.

18 posted on 06/15/2012 12:00:31 PM PDT by sand88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies ]

To: JoeFromSidney

Thanks! I figured as much. Key here is how much electricity does it take to convert CO2 into useful fuels?


23 posted on 06/15/2012 12:35:34 PM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies ]

To: JoeFromSidney
There is a crap ton of off peak wind power that at times is sold at negative rates as in the wind producers pay others to take the power so they do not burn out their turbines. If they got to butanol they have solved our imported fuel problem as butanol can be used in a 1 to 1 ratio in unmodified modern fuel injected engines that currently use E10 the air fuel ratio and BTU per gallon as close enough to E10 that the standard O2 sensor and BFC maps are close enough to run closed loop OBDII in spec.

Butanol can also be dehydrated using standard petchem catalysts to butane and then dimerized or trimerized or oligomerized to any other straight chain alkane, or isomerized to any of the branched chain aromatics this is standard petroleum refinery tech that is done on the level of millions of tons per day using crude oil and NG liquid feeds. Butanol is also an industrial solvent / base chemical that is currently worth more per gallon than gasoline on the wholesale market if they make butanol it will not end up as motor fuel it is too valuable a chemical commodity for that currently.

Methanol can be turned directly into isooctane using the MTG process at high commercially viable yields ask the South Africans they do the MTG process by the millions of tons commercially already. the MTG process yields isocatane and propane in an 3:1 ratio with no side reactions over a zeolite catalyst.

If the catalyst are cheap enough and blue light is all you need plus CO2 there are plenty of compounds that florescence in full sunlight one could be tuned to take in broad spectrum sunlight and florescence out blue light directly to one of these catalitic cells, but if you can go directly from electrons to chemical energy at 95% efficency skip the solar photon to semicondutor electron step and just use off peak power from wind, hydro, and nukes.

Texas has installed over 5 gigawatts of wind power that peaks out in the middle of the night while we all sleep and during the heat of the day anyone who has lived in west Texas will tell you there is no wind to be had it's just hot and dry till sun down then bam out of no where the wind starts to howl again it has to do with the advection of unequal cooling of the different land use types to the cloud less night sky. All that power at night mostly goes to waste as we Texans are off work and going to sleep right as the wind really peaks out all the way till the sun comes up and heats the ground up again the mid-mornings.

37 posted on 06/16/2012 3:41:07 PM PDT by JD_UTDallas ("Veni Vidi Vici")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson