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Op-Ed: Jewish 'Leaders' Letter to Netanyahu is No Surprise
Arutz Sheva ^ | 20/7/12 | Ron Jager

Posted on 07/21/2012 3:00:49 PM PDT by Eleutheria5

It was just a matter of time before self-appointed prominent Jewish leaders in America got organized to send a letter to PM Netanyahu claiming that Israel's int'l standing is in peril due to the recent judicial report by retired Supreme Court Justice Edmond Levy who concluding that Israel is not occupying Judea and Samaria and that there is no legal prohibition to populate the land east of the 1967 "border" (actually 1949 Armistice Lines) with Jewish residents.

Beyond the issue of the report itself, why have US Jewish leaders become so agitated and disturbed?

"As strong advocates for Israel’s security and well-being as a Jewish and democratic state, we are deeply concerned about the recent findings of the government commission led by [retired Supreme Court Justice] Edmund Levy. We fear that if approved, this report will place the two-state solution, and the prestige of Israel as a democratic member of the international community, in peril," the letter read.

Signatories to the letter include ... (usual blowhards with money and titles).

The signatories insist on ignoring the most basic historical facts, preferring to perpetuate the false and invented narrative that pre1948, the land already belonged to the Palestinian Arabs which is a gross historical fabrication.

The signatories also refuse to acknowledge that the land was allocated for a Jewish National home by the League of Nations and then by the United Nations in a partition plan that Israel accepted and the Arabs rejected.

Why are these self-proclaimed Jewish leaders losing sleep over a judicial report that simply reiterates the truth about Israel's legal standing in Judea and Samaria?

.....

(Excerpt) Read more at israelnationalnews.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Israel; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bibi; israel; jewishleaders; judgelevy; letter; waronterror
"We fear that if approved, this report will place the two-state solution, and the prestige of Israel as a democratic member of the international community, in peril,"...

I hope that it's approved, so that the report will bury the two-state "solution" once and for all. As for Israel's "presitige" as a democratic member of international community, screw 'em. The "international community" has been calling us Nazis for years, even as the Palis continue to call for genocide, and the Islamists for world conquest. "You can't please everyone, so you better please yourself."

"Why are these self-proclaimed Jewish leaders losing sleep over a judicial report that simply reiterates the truth about Israel's legal standing in Judea and Samaria?"

Because we haven't annexed Judea and Samaria, which we should have done back in June of 1967, prior to the passage of UNSC Resolution 242. Everyone would have been better off, including the "Palestinians". But it's not too late for a one-state solution.

1 posted on 07/21/2012 3:00:59 PM PDT by Eleutheria5
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To: Eleutheria5

The so-called “Jewish leaders” are more “agitated” at Jews building homes in the Holy Land than they were when Hitler was gassing Jews by the millions. Read the book “Perfidy” to see why those who “led” Jews during WWII should have been executed for their treachery.


2 posted on 07/21/2012 3:06:35 PM PDT by montag813
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To: montag813

Rudolph Kastner was executed...sort of, and thereby silenced from implicating others.


3 posted on 07/21/2012 3:08:52 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Eleutheria5
It was just a matter of time before self-appointed prominent Jewish leaders in America got organized to send a letter to PM Netanyahu claiming that Israel's int'l standing is in peril due to the recent judicial report by retired Supreme Court Justice Edmond Levy who concluding that Israel is not occupying Judea and Samaria and that there is no legal prohibition to populate the land east of the 1967 "border" (actually 1949 Armistice Lines) with Jewish residents.

LOL, never allow an inconvenient fact deter an agenda of determined appeasement.

4 posted on 07/21/2012 3:16:15 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo: Economic crisis! Zero's eligibility Trumped!! Hillary 2012!!!)
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To: montag813

Like the Allied leaders, the Jewish leaders refused to believe that Hitler said what he meant and meant what he said in “Mein Kampf.” That’s because, taken with a grain of salt, Hitler was saying in public what the Allied leaders were saying in private, and the Jews knew it.


5 posted on 07/21/2012 3:25:31 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: Eleutheria5

I wish to add that an Israel without Hevron, isn’t Israel at all. If Yerushalayim is its heart of the land, Hevron is her soul, in G_d’s promise to Avraham.


6 posted on 07/21/2012 3:28:17 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo: Economic crisis! Zero's eligibility Trumped!! Hillary 2012!!!)
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To: Eleutheria5

Here is the dilemma of which I see no way out: annex the land, annex the people. While there may be some who would call for expulsions, I do not see this as a realistic option. Truthfully, I do not know what the answer is.


7 posted on 07/21/2012 3:29:42 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

Following Netanyahu’s example of abandoning Hevron in 1997, the Israeli establishment will also try to abandon the Negev for the same reasons. It’s not status quo versus expansion.


8 posted on 07/21/2012 3:36:21 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Eleutheria5

There are times when I wonder what the source of funding is, for these “leaders”. It would make a lot of sense for the Islamists to hire some Jewish people to promote their interests.


9 posted on 07/21/2012 3:37:15 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: PapaBear3625

No need. They do it for free./disgust


10 posted on 07/21/2012 3:39:18 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Petrosius
Here is the dilemma of which I see no way out: annex the land, annex the people. While there may be some who would call for expulsions, I do not see this as a realistic option. Truthfully, I do not know what the answer is.

It doesn't need to be expulsion. Offer an emigration subsidy for any Muslim women (age 18-30) who wants to leave Israel and move elsewhere. If the Muslim women of child-bearing age move elsewhere, the problem is corrected in a generation.

11 posted on 07/21/2012 3:40:14 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: jjotto

I do not think that the Negev will be given up. It is on the Israeli side of the Green Line; there is little population there; and it it is too important strategically to defend against Egypt. Without the Negev Israel has no strategic depth against its largest possible adversary.


12 posted on 07/21/2012 3:42:15 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

There is no one answer, just a complex puzzle. Annex the land is definitely a corner piece, but not the whole thing. The Palis can be given the option of citizenship, just as they are in Jerusalem. Expulsion is not happening, though, occasional bit of graffiti notwithstanding.


13 posted on 07/21/2012 3:43:06 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: PapaBear3625
It doesn't need to be expulsion. Offer an emigration subsidy for any Muslim women (age 18-30) who wants to leave Israel and move elsewhere. If the Muslim women of child-bearing age move elsewhere, the problem is corrected in a generation.

Interesting idea. Any estimates of the cost and source of funding? A major problem however would be that it is the Muslim men, not women, who make all the decisions. How much would it take to overcome their nationalistic ideas for a state of Palestine. We are not working with rational people.

14 posted on 07/21/2012 3:46:41 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: PapaBear3625

There would have to be some proof of non-Jewish ancestry, though. Too many Jewish girls have been made captive brides, and this goes back a few generations. A sal pleita would be a mirror opposite of sal klita.


15 posted on 07/21/2012 3:47:04 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Eleutheria5
The Palis can be given the option of citizenship, just as they are in Jerusalem.

Then they would eventually have to be given equality under the law. Israel would then cease to be Jewish state; it would be forced to be a multi-ethnic, multi-religious secular state similar to Lebanon. There are already estimates that non Jews outnumber Jews in combined Israel/West Bank area.

16 posted on 07/21/2012 3:52:39 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

That should have read “combined Israel/West Bank/Gaza” or “combined Israel/Palestine”.


17 posted on 07/21/2012 3:54:13 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

The cost would be high, but the potential benefit would be higher. The money ought to be found, perhaps by beefing up the operating budget of the Misrad Hapnim (Ministry of Interior) or creating a separate ministry called Misrad Hapleita. Offer them all subsidies to leave, not just the chicks, and fair-market value for land.

For those who stay, citizenship should be an option. Most will take it as a matter of personal honor and nationalism NOT to apply for citizenship, as they already do in Jerusalem. So Pali nationalism would actually mitigate and reduce the electoral impact of annexation.


18 posted on 07/21/2012 3:54:45 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Eleutheria5
Most will take it as a matter of personal honor and nationalism NOT to apply for citizenship, as they already do in Jerusalem.

This would change in a heartbeat if they realized that they could be the electoral majority. First order of business in a new non-Jewish majority parliament: change the State of Israel to the State of Palestine. Second order of business: grant citizenship to all Palestinian refugees. This is the dilemma of which I see no way out with annexation.

19 posted on 07/21/2012 4:01:22 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

I’ve been over this enough times with Gandalftb. Those estimates are fictional, relying on PA made-up statistics and outdated demographic projections. Jews outnumber Arabs here, and are likely to continue doing so for the foreseeable future.

But even assuming those estimates/projections are right, if we one day are in the minority here, then so be it. The Arabs will then get the upper hand regardless of what political gobbledegook designates one part of Israel as “territory” and the other as “Israel proper” (Euuch! I said that! Gotta go wash my hands). You play the cards you are dealt, without hiding from them. The two-state “solution” is a bust, morally, legally, and practically. Time for a one-state solution.


20 posted on 07/21/2012 4:02:47 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Petrosius

I see that as a what-if scenario, not a dilemma. If it happens, it happens. But I don’t think it will happen. They are not a majority. They are unlikely to become a majority.

That is, unless you want to forcibly annex Ghaza, which would be insane. Ghaza and Egypt deserve each other. Let them have each other, and let the latter annex the former, if it wants, and be held responsible for assaults by the former, whether or not it wants.


21 posted on 07/21/2012 4:08:09 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Eleutheria5

I will accept your analysis about the population estimates but even without there being a non-Jewish majority the nature of Israel as a Jewish state would still cease. With a non-Jewish population even approaching 40 or 45%, the pressure to eliminate all distinctions between Jews and non-Jews would be too great. A secular non-ethnic, non-religious state might be the answer but would most Jews in Israel accept it?


22 posted on 07/21/2012 4:08:40 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Eleutheria5

I was assuming the annexation of Gaza. (What does this do to your population estimates?) But even if Gaza were excluded you still have what I posted in #22.


23 posted on 07/21/2012 4:11:59 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

http://www.ruthfullyyours.com/2011/06/21/the-real-demographics-in-israel-yoram-ettinger/


24 posted on 07/21/2012 4:13:09 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Petrosius

Except for the past 63 years, the governance of the Land has changed hands many times, usually remaining anti-Jewish to a greater or lesser degree. I can’t speak for most Jews in Israel, but I’d still be here if it were under the governance of the Ottomans or the British, or even the Mamluks.

Whether or not a particular tract of land belongs to a Jew, we belong to the Land and no other land. Like I said, if the scenario you fear happens, there’s no stopping it. But I’m willing to bet my life (literally) that it will not. On the other hand, if a two-state solution happens, I can see no way it can end other than in total destruction. I’ll bet against a sure thing like that any day. One-state solution is the best option available.


25 posted on 07/21/2012 4:21:00 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Eleutheria5

Is there any sizable support for annexation with citizenship? Are there any reputable leaders supporting this idea? And would not this be the same as the Palestinians “Plan B” to disestablish the Palestinian Authority and call for a one-state solution? While annexation with expulsions is a fantasy, how likely could granting citizenship to the Palestinians be?


26 posted on 07/21/2012 4:29:11 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius
Interesting idea. Any estimates of the cost and source of funding?

The population of Israel proper (excluding Gaza) is a little under 8 million, of which about 2 million are Muslim. Figure the number of Muslim women in the 18-30 age range would be on the order of 500K? If it took $10K per Muslim woman to persuade them the emigrate elsewhere, that would be about $5B.

A major problem however would be that it is the Muslim men, not women, who make all the decisions.

What if the men were not involved? What if all it took was a Muslim woman going up to an Israeli police officer and asking asylum? Of course, the Muslim men would riot.

27 posted on 07/21/2012 7:45:58 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: PapaBear3625

We are talking about the West Bank, not Israel proper.

Would $10K convince you to leave your country?

If you think that Muslim women would do anything without the approval of the men you do not know Islam.


28 posted on 07/21/2012 7:56:34 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Eleutheria5
There would have to be some proof of non-Jewish ancestry, though. Too many Jewish girls have been made captive brides, and this goes back a few generations. A sal pleita would be a mirror opposite of sal klita.

A captive bride of Jewish ancestry either would desire to renounce Islam and return to Judaism (in which case her Islamic marriage is annulled) or she wishes to remain Muslim (in which case why would you treat her differently than a Muslim?)

29 posted on 07/21/2012 8:36:00 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: Eleutheria5
This article simply reinforces what I said about the liberal Jewish self-image in a recent post.

For liberal Jews the Jewish mission comes not from G-d or Sinai but from the way Jews have been treated by non-Jews, especially chrstians. The chrstians oppressed us like the big meanies they are, therefore it's "un-Jewish" to "oppress" anyone else. Never mind that HaShem commands the extermination of eight separate nations in the Torah or that in the full Biblical polity idolatry is a capital offense (provided all the criteria have been met, which isn't easy). All that has been forgotten. Jews are the people who learned from the anti-Semites not to be "mean" to anybody (unless they're Bible-thumping rednecks).

I read recently (it may have been here on FR; I don't remember) where some idiot pseudo-"rabbi" from a heretical "branch" said in a "sermon" that it doesn't matter if you don't keep Shabbat or kosher or anything like that, but you can't call yourself "Jewish" if you're not "for justice."

This is also another example of the utterly bankrupt "official Jewish leadership" who are nothing of the kind. Just a little over three hundred years ago Jewish communites were autonomous Theocratic polities where the Rabbis and their Battei-Din could enforce Halakhah. Do you suppose Edgar Bronfman even knows that?

Time to bury the eighteenth century "enlightenment" with a stake through the place where its heart should be (but isn't because it doesn't have one).

30 posted on 07/21/2012 9:46:00 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Petrosius
We are talking about the West Bank, not Israel proper.

The so-called "west bank" (Yehudah and Shomeron) is Israel proper, indeed, the very heart of 'Eretz HaQodesh. Have you ever read a Bible? Shoot, in this morning's portion Moses gave the lands east of the Jordan to Re'uven, Gad, and half of Menashe!

It's simple. Annex the land and kick them out. That's not as bad a fate as G-d decreed for the Canaanites who were to be exterminated.

31 posted on 07/21/2012 9:53:20 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Especially don’t be mean to Muslims, because their tendency towards blatant oppression and even sadism is just a cultural thing that has to be respected. After all, most of them are non-white, so that ipso fatso means that they’re oppressed./sarc


32 posted on 07/22/2012 1:26:50 AM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Especially don’t be mean to Muslims, because their tendency towards blatant oppression and even sadism is just a cultural thing that has to be respected. After all, most of them are non-white, so that ipso fatso means that they’re oppressed./sarc


33 posted on 07/22/2012 1:26:50 AM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Especially don’t be mean to Muslims, because their tendency towards blatant oppression and even sadism is just a cultural thing that has to be respected. After all, most of them are non-white, so that ipso fatso means that they’re oppressed./sarc


34 posted on 07/22/2012 1:26:55 AM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Petrosius

There is growing support in the nationalist camp (Ihud Leumi, Yisrael Beteinu, the more right-wing factions in Likud) for annexation of the 61% of Judah and Samaria presently designated Area C.

If the Palestinians want to disestablish the PA, that dovetails perfectly—only we’d have to make sure it happened on our terms instead of theirs.

As for citizenship, 20% of the citizenry is Arab right now anyway. It’s no bigee. At least one Israeli Arab lives in the Kurdish enclave between Remat Mamre and Kiryat Arba, judging by the Israeli license plate on the car in front of his house. But as I said, there would be no wholesale grant of citizenship. It would be made available to those who applied, just as it already is in Jerusalem.


35 posted on 07/22/2012 1:36:36 AM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: PapaBear3625

“Of course, the Muslim men would riot.”

For a change?


36 posted on 07/22/2012 1:38:26 AM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Petrosius

“Would $10K convince you to leave your country?”

When the piece talks started looking like they would actually result in two states, there was a flood of Pali emigration to Jordan, and a major upsurge in Jerusalemites applying for Israeli citizenship. Palestinian nationalism is the official line here. But all that means is that when you stick a camera in the face of a Pali, he will throw rocks and wave flags and shout slogans, so as to conform. But when the camera is not on, neither is their nationalism, and they think more practically. No doubt, offering asylum to women of child-bearing years would cause a huge uproar. But that’s only because of the Islamic obsession with “fitr” or “female virtue” as they see it. Offering an exit subsidy package sufficiently attractive and without reference to gender would yield astoundingly positive results, imho. Rav Dov Lior of Kiryat Arba has already spoken of offering such a package to the overpopulated Bedouin community as a matter of humanitarian necessity.


37 posted on 07/22/2012 1:48:41 AM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

We need not go all the way back to the Bible. The so-called West Bank was made Judenrein from 1929 to 1948 by a series of genocidal massacres, sometimes with the passive cooperation of the British and the farshlugginer International Community.

To say that that land is Palestinian is to condone ethnic cleansing and land theft. To say that Israel stole it in 1967 is to punish a country for following the rules of war, and to favor ethnic cleansing and land theft in its stead.

But so long as you’ve brought up the Bible, it’s worthwhile to point out that the Koran in Suras 17 and 5 outright endorses the Biblical prophesy of Jews returning to the Land and rebuilding the Temple. If a doctrine of return is held valid by both parties, you have half the elements of an enforceable contract already. So what are we waiting for? Time to rebuild the Temple.


38 posted on 07/22/2012 1:57:18 AM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

When having a conversation we need to use commonly recognized terms. “Israel proper” is commonly understood to mean the area within the Green Line. But if you prefer I guess I could use “the State of Israel proper”, although this is a bit cumbersome.

Despite the dreams of some, expulsion is not a viable solution. It would start a war in which Israel would be isolated. The support of the U.S. could not even be assumed. Universal support in Israel is not even guaranteed. Since Pakistan now has the bomb the reliance on nuclear weapons is no longer a safe response.

A solution must be found in what is realistically possible, not wishful thinking.


39 posted on 07/22/2012 6:05:50 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Eleutheria5

Paying money for the Palestinians to leave is an interesting idea but it would have to be to entire families, not just to the women. Trying to play the women off against the men will not work. Honor killings are not just theoretical and the women know this.

Also, I would think that the amount offered would have to be well above $10K. There would also have to be some arrangement for receiving countries. A willingness for the Palestinians to take the money and go would be meaningless if there were no countries willing to receive them.


40 posted on 07/22/2012 6:16:21 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius
We are talking about the West Bank, not Israel proper. Would $10K convince you to leave your country?

It would depend on how poor and miserable I was there. $10K would be enough to go elsewhere and start over in a new place, and would keep me fed for a while while I looked for work.

41 posted on 07/22/2012 6:24:45 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: Eleutheria5
There is growing support in the nationalist camp (Ihud Leumi, Yisrael Beteinu, the more right-wing factions in Likud) for annexation of the 61% of Judah and Samaria presently designated Area C.

No doubt but it is going to have to be all or nothing. Annexation of only Area C just formalizes the status quo. The presence of the Arab population is a fact. It is just not possible to have the land without the people.

But as I said, there would be no wholesale grant of citizenship. It would be made available to those who applied, just as it already is in Jerusalem.

But with the greater numbers involved I think that you would have a different response that with the limited number of Arabs in Jerusalem. Even with Arabs at only 33% of the population (assuming that it is possible to exclude Gaza) it would be politically unfeasible to maintain a privileged position in the law for the Jews. In time it would be impossible to maintain Israel as a Jewish nation; it would necessarily have to become a bi-national, multi-religious state. This would be a possible solution if (big if) both sides could accept it.

This is the dilemma to which I always return. I can see only two possible solutions (neither necessarily palatable): two states, one Jewish and one Arab; or one state that is equally Jewish and Arab.

42 posted on 07/22/2012 6:34:20 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

No doubt but it is going to have to be all or nothing. Annexation of only Area C just formalizes the status quo.

I’d also favor annexing Area B. As for Area A, I’m not going to go to war with whatever psychotic bozo claims to be its ruler. It was already made Judenrein. Unless they start with us, I’d leave it.

The presence of the Arab population is a fact. It is just not possible to have the land without the people.

Must we continue belaboring this? Citizenship would be available to those who want it. Many, perhaps most, will refuse. I’m fine with that. They’ll still have civil rights and a vote in local elections, and be expected to pay taxes and do public service (non-military).

But with the greater numbers involved I think that you would have a different response that with the limited number of Arabs in Jerusalem.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Even with Arabs at only 33% of the population (assuming that it is possible to exclude Gaza)

Not only is it possible, Resolution 242 requires the return of some territories (in the English draft). Egypt has dibs on Ghaza under 242. They’re welcome to it. It’s not worth going to war over, much as I sympathize with the exiles of Gush Katif.

it would be politically unfeasible to maintain a privileged position in the law for the Jews. In time it would be impossible to maintain Israel as a Jewish nation; it would necessarily have to become a bi-national, multi-religious state. This would be a possible solution if (big if) both sides could accept it.

Thus far, the Arab side has been unable to accept the existence of a Jewish state, or even a homeland. 31 attempts have been made at negotiating their acceptance, and there is no chance. So have done with negotiations. We’ll annex. They can do what they want with that fact. If they want to join and participate, fine. If they want to turn their noses up, fine. If so many want to join and participate that it becomes a multinational state, that’s an eventuality that will have to be accepted. But the possibility is remote, imho.

I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that the Arabs, too, will vote against a right of return for the hereditary “refugees” of 1948. They might carry signs demanding it, for to do otherwise would be to lose “honor,” but in the privacy of a voting booth, they’ll vote against.

This is the dilemma to which I always return. I can see only two possible solutions (neither necessarily palatable): two states, one Jewish and one Arab; or one state that is equally Jewish and Arab.

The two state solution is a bad idea whose time has gone. It will solve nothing and will never happen—not because it has no support among Jews, but because it has no support among Arabs, except as a tactical maneuver from which to destroy the Jewish state. The one state solution might or might not end in a loss of the Jewishness of the state, but I’m willing to literally bet my life that it will not.

It is a dilemma to you because you care about world affairs and track them from the safety of your living room. I face it in my daily life and have a different perspective. Right now, Ramadan fireworks continue to pound away from North Hevron, which is less than a block away from where I live. The Arabs there are usually quite friendly, from behind the high fence with the razor wire. They live in beautiful houses with lush fields under cultivation and satellite dishes on their roofs. The residents of Mitzpeh Avihai on Hill 18, also adjacent to North Hevron, lived in crudely constructed shacks, until the government sent Druze Magavniks to forcibly evacuate them and destroy their hovels. These are my friends and neighbors, not faceless incarnations of dilemmas. Their scrawny grapevines are still growing near the ruins of their community. To me there is no dilemma. We must have one state, and I’ll live or die by that, and do whatever I have to to rebuild Mitzpeh Avihai.


43 posted on 07/22/2012 2:12:17 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Petrosius

A number of Palestinian refugees have immigrated to Chile under the sponsorship of the UNHCR. They are apparently very happy to be there, accepted, and productive. I agree that only helping the women leave would be unworkable. I also strongly believe that there are Jewish captives among the Palestinians, whether leftist idiots who got raped and driven into marriage and conversion, or rebellious teenagers who ran away from home and or eloped, and then found themselves trapped in a remote village with an abusive husband. As a Jew, I cannot countenance letting said husband abscond with these captive women and their offspring and on top of it all paying them for it. There will have to be some sort of proof.

As for “well above $10K,” I got well below that amount to come to Israel, had to work for appalling wages for ten months until the paperwork was sorted, and left a good paying job in the states for it, as well as flying here at my own expense. My mother-in-law just made aliya with her flight all paid for, immediate citizenship, but still well below $10K in assistance. In 1967, the IDF paid Palis in Ghaza unhappy with being conquered and wanting to leave, the grand sum of 100 lira, and they left on foot to Egypt. Those who stayed prospered until the intifaa’ida (correct plural form, any Arabic speakers know?) and evacuation of Gush Katif.


44 posted on 07/22/2012 3:42:09 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

45 posted on 07/23/2012 9:33:55 AM PDT by SJackson (I used to eat a lot of natural foods until I learned that most people people die of natural causes)
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To: Petrosius
Despite the dreams of some, expulsion is not a viable solution. It would start a war in which Israel would be isolated. The support of the U.S. could not even be assumed. Universal support in Israel is not even guaranteed. Since Pakistan now has the bomb the reliance on nuclear weapons is no longer a safe response.

A solution must be found in what is realistically possible, not wishful thinking.

Do you think an Israel that was completely committed to G-d would even need any support from "the rest of the world?" Many articles have been written on how the greatest Jewish victories have come from cleaving to G-d and telling everyone else where to go (pardon my language).

46 posted on 07/23/2012 9:40:46 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Do you think an Israel that was completely committed to G-d would even need any support from "the rest of the world?"

1) Do you really believe that the present secular Israeli society is completely committed to God?

2) As a Christian I believe that God's promises to Israel now find their fulfillment in the Jesus Christ and his Church which is made up of both Jews and gentiles, as was foretold by the prophets.

47 posted on 07/23/2012 10:01:36 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius
1) Do you really believe that the present secular Israeli society is completely committed to God?

Unfortunately, it is not. But G-d still has a covenant with `Am Yisra'el (the Jewish People, as opposed to the secular state founded in 1948), and for all its problems and deficiencies, a Jewish State in the Holy Land (and the Jews who live there) are of key significance.

2) As a Christian I believe that God's promises to Israel now find their fulfillment in the Jesus Christ and his Church which is made up of both Jews and gentiles, as was foretold by the prophets.

In other words, you believe the interpretation of the prophecies which chrstianity has reiterated for the past two millenia. These beliefs (to put it politely) may not be correct. They are hardly self-evidently true.

48 posted on 07/23/2012 6:33:53 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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