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To: Iron Munro
IMHO -If Lincoln was anywhere near as great as he is portrayed in the history books, he would have been able to negotiate a reasonable accomodation to end the war and prevented the brutal slaughter of more than 600,000 Americans.

I agree that it would have been far better had we been able to find a non-violent alternate solution. You will recall however that South Carolina started the Carnival Ride From Hell before Lincoln took office. He did try several efforts to placate the south, but they weren't having any part of it. His hand was forced.

40 posted on 07/25/2012 12:39:18 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: rockrr
I agree that it would have been far better had we been able to find a nonviolent alternate solution. You will recall however that South Carolina started the Carnival Ride From Hell before Lincoln took office. He did try several efforts to placate the south, but they weren't having any part of it. His hand was forced.

Good comments and all true as far as it goes.

There were many opportunities on both sides to mediate some sort of resolution but the Union demanded immediate and total capitulation on all points. There was more than enough arrogance and intransigence and little willingness to compromise or find a workable middle ground on both sides.

After Sharpsville, Gettysburg, Vicksburg it is clear the Union was in the ascendancy and the Confederacy was in decline. It became clear to most in the south that they were facing ultimate defeat. That was the opportune time to seek compromise. But the federal government that shortly before feared the imminent fall of Washington and Maryland became determined to not only win, but to absolutely crush and devastate the south. A desire for revenge replaced any desire to search for a nonviolent solution.

And that is exactly what followed. It wasn't necessary to the ultimate northern victory and the damage it caused still lingers.

There is a difference between being an effective leader and being a great leader. Almost every action Lincoln took exacerbated the situation and reduced chances for compromise. That is why I hold to my original observation - a great leader, a great statesman, would not have presided over the death of 600,000 of his countrymen.

44 posted on 07/25/2012 3:22:01 PM PDT by Iron Munro ("Jiggle the Handle for Barry!")
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To: rockrr

P.S.

Often overlooked is the fact that Lincoln (and others) recognized that racial relations were a problem, even in the north where blacks were free. Long before Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation he considerred proposals to ship all blacks, north and south, to colonies in some foreign lands.

Various places in Central and South America were considered as well as Africa.

The idea never came to much as it was taken over by war related events.

Ultimately Lincoln settled on the idea of using emancipation of blacks in the Confederacy as a political and strategic tool against the south. That led to the formation of black military units (led by white officers) to fight in the south. That decision was more political than strategic as it was calculated to infuriate southerners.


46 posted on 07/25/2012 3:39:04 PM PDT by Iron Munro ("Jiggle the Handle for Barry!")
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To: rockrr

“I agree that it would have been far better had we been able to find a non-violent alternate solution. You will recall however that South Carolina started the Carnival Ride From Hell before Lincoln took office. He did try several efforts to placate the south, but they weren’t having any part of it. His hand was forced. “

I don’t see how you can have an acceptable solution except thou Independence. Which Lincoln believing he owed the south & southern people was not prepared to accept.

Simply put Tyrants like Lincoln had to be killed so that all men might be free of his tyranny. The tragity is the south didn’t do that right off the bat. They should have taken Lincoln at his word and accepting that he was never going to let them live free of him their only option was to kill or imprison Lincoln like any other criminal.

Instead following the custom of the time they left the enemy tyrant alone until the end, when hundreds of thousands of Yankees were thrown like cannon fodder into southern defenses, and hundredths of thousands of southerns were killed defending their own land from the aggression of one Tyrant.

Lincoln may be burning in hell today but hundreds of thousand of lives might have been saved had they sent him there a little sooner. Perhaps more importantly a hundred million + people might still be free living under a government with the consent of the governed.

Instead nobody won, the south is held captive to the lawless political passions of the north and the north is held captive to not only that but the south’s disagreeable influence.


47 posted on 07/25/2012 3:43:49 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: rockrr

“I agree that it would have been far better had we been able to find a non-violent alternate solution. You will recall however that South Carolina started the Carnival Ride From Hell before Lincoln took office. He did try several efforts to placate the south, but they weren’t having any part of it. His hand was forced. “

I don’t see how you can have an acceptable solution except thou Independence. Which Lincoln believing he owed the south & southern people was not prepared to accept.

Simply put Tyrants like Lincoln had to be killed so that all men might be free of his tyranny. The tragity is the south didn’t do that right off the bat. They should have taken Lincoln at his word and accepting that he was never going to let them live free of him their only option was to kill or imprison Lincoln like any other criminal.

Instead following the custom of the time they left the enemy tyrant alone until the end, when hundreds of thousands of Yankees were thrown like cannon fodder into southern defenses, and hundredths of thousands of southerns were killed defending their own land from the aggression of one Tyrant.

Lincoln may be burning in hell today but hundreds of thousand of lives might have been saved had they sent him there a little sooner. Perhaps more importantly a hundred million + people might still be free living under a government with the consent of the governed.

Instead nobody won, the south is held captive to the lawless political passions of the north and the north is held captive to not only that but the south’s disagreeable influence.

Nobody is happy and we are still fighting about it 150 years later.


48 posted on 07/25/2012 3:44:23 PM PDT by Monorprise
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