Posted on 07/25/2012 6:20:17 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
What faith teaches that one is allowed into Heaven based on the forgiveness of those you have wronged? I had not heard of that.
I will leave all of that to God (who had found Him and who hadn’t). If someone falls away from God because they cannot reconcile this act (by a human being, fallen as we all are) their faith was just looking for something to shake it since horrendous things happen every day.
Forgiving someone for what they do does not help the perpetrator, it helps the person who forgives. Holding onto anger, while it may seem normal and human, is destructive. I would always urge anyone, especially a Christian to try to do it. And to pray for the person who harmed them. Yeah, it’s extremely difficult, but it IS the Christian thing to do. I do NOT mean they should not be held to justice. Both things are not mutually exclusive.
> Another faux Christian who has no idea of the true concept of forgiveness.
As Christ was enduring all of his trials he said ..
“Father forgive them fo they no not what they do”. (Luke 23:24)
In Matthew 6:15 the Lord tells us, “But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.”
What exactly is faux about the forgiveness this man confesses? Nowhere does it say he wants this person to walk away free from the consequences of his actions, only that he sees a lost soul and is sorrowful.
I agree.
Read Luke 17:3 and get back to me.
You’re wrong.
Part of really being able to forgive someone is the administering of temporal and eternal justice. You can’t forgive if you think the person is going to get away with it, the soul loves and demands justice because we know it is right.
Precisely. Unless and until the perpetrator truly repents and asks forgiveness a true Christian is under no obligation to offer it, nor should they.
Forgiving is an act of the will. It relieves the victims of any hate for the perp.
How can we expect God to forgive if we can’t?
How do I know? I had to forgive the murderer of my granddaughter before I could stop hating him.
Just an old man’s opinion.
I swear! This moron thinks he’s being “Christian” by forgiving Evil?
Oh how God must be laughing at people like this.
Her forgiveness may be a fast forward - or maybe, even, a fast backwards. . .
Whatever, this survivor; , can only speak for herself.
Irrelevant.
I don't care one way or the other.
As an individual decision, it is admirable. As an attempt to impose it on everyone, it is damnable; whether it is by an individual, a group or a justice system.
Does his forgiveness for the gunman make him a moron, now? Uh, didn’t Jesus forgive the people who killed him?
Well, if someone can forgive regardless of the criminal’s regret, all the more power to them. I am just saying it’s pretty much impossible for most people to truly forgive, especially those without the help of God, if you do not believe that you’ve gotten justice.
There does come a point for many where they feel they have to forgive in some way, because there may not be any satisfactory justice in this life, and they have to move on with their own lives, as it may have become something holding them back personally.
God hasn’t forgiven Satan.
Who am I to be ‘better’ than God.
And yes, the man is a moron.
We are supposed to FIGHT Evil, not excuse it. And Jesus died for our Souls.
The Bible also says thou shalt not MURDER. And that if someone does MURDER we are supposed to send their Soul to God for Judgement.
I could easily forgive the harm someone did to me.....the harm they did to one I love no way. In fact I don’t think we have the obligation to forgive the hurt someone put on another, only ourselves. I would hold the harm to my loved ones against him forever....I don’t have the power to say to someone,,,,,I forgive you for what you did to another person. Won’t find it in the bible either I don’t think..
In The God's economy, there is no "forgiveness" transaction possible without confession (homolohgehoh)(agreeing with the accuser) and repentance (afeeaymee)(utterly abandoning the sin) (see 1 Jn. 1:9).
Saying "I forgive you" to someone who does not confess and exhibit repentance is an incomplete transaction. It's like saying "Here's the price for that loaf of bread," to which the owner says "It's mine; I'm keeping it and I'm not selling." That is an incomplete transaction. God has not forgiven the shooter, and neither can the wounded one; though he/she may offer, "Through grace, I'm willing to forgive." That puts one right with God and puts the ball in the perpetrator's court.
If, then, the perpetrator confesses "I did it. I am very, very sorrowful, and have abandoned any intention of ever doing that again. Though I know I do not deserve that you would release me of guilt for this, I would be most grateful for your abandoning retribution to me" (2 Cor. 7:10).This being very sincere, the perpetrator has now put the onus on the offended one. Now The God's command comes into play -- if you do forgive the offender and forget the offense, The God will do the same for yours. But if you do not forgive the sorrowful repentant confessor, The God will not forgive yours, for you do not yet understand and accept His ways.
If you try to forgive without confession and repentance, you are telling The God, "I intend to override your plan for justice, by forgetting the confession/repentance part." Now, that is a sinful mindset which needs correction. Now, you are instituting your own, non-functioning plan of relieving the burden of sin. It does not work.
Uh, didn’t Jesus forgive the people who killed him?
Well, remember, the ones who actually drove the nails and raised Him to the Cross-death were under their own law, and were not aware they were doing wrong under that Gentile human law, their government law. Remember, He said to the Father, "...for they know not what they do." Just as for children who are not yet aware of and accountable to the Ten Moral Commandments, no transgression is imputed (though it has been perpetrated) to the ignorant ones. "...for where no law is, there is no transgression" (see Rom. 4:14-15; 5:13).
The literal crucifying soldiers were not going against their Roman law, but were complying with it. Therefore, Christ could ask the Father for a gracious, undeserved forgiveness in this instance. (Perhaps this would even apply to those who called for His crucifixion. But His plea to the Father does not seem to cover any other known moral terpitudes, for which all will be responsible, including the crucifiers. So they are not, in the end, let off for other infractions for which they are all guilty before The God.)
The wounded one has not achieved anything for his (her?) self, or for the shooter, in the account described in this AP news release. In this case, the shooter knew of the civil and moral law, and very consciously and deliberately chose to reject the restraints of civil law and The Law, and thus does not come under the special case pled for by The Son of Humans regarding his executors: "they know not what they do." James Holmes knew exactly what he was doing.
Hope this makes sense to you-all, for this is important Scriptural doctrine.
Pray for your enemies (including Obama, etc.), and be willing to offer forgiveness (and forget); for in doing so, you will heap coals of fire (figure of speech) on their heads, until they seek release.
Forgive yourself, when The God also has.
Corrie Ten Boom was brought to this point, when she was approached many years later by one of her prison camp guards. This is how she learned how to really forgive.
This is a lesson. Respectfully submitted for you-all on His behalf --- He has done it for me, one of his (figuratively) crucifiers.
I don’t recall reading where he was excusing him. Maybe I didn’t read it closely. Whatever, I got the sense that he was doing it for his own benefit. Maybe it was the only way he could get through his ordeal and be healed, don’t you think? You know people have their own way of dealing with a tragic and terrible event! Maybe it’s not the way you would!
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