Skip to comments.At least four shot at Sikh Temple, SWAT team helps people out (Oak Creek WI)
Posted on 08/05/2012 9:50:55 AM PDT by PinkbellEdited on 08/05/2012 10:46:48 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
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Exactly. Remember what the Brian Ross and ABC News first reported about the Aurora shooter. These "anonymous" early statements rarely turn out to be accurate
Channel 12 has the son of one of the members on the phone. There aparently was a special visting priest from India onsite today. He was shot.
I’m with you on that one. The timing of this seems suspicious since Aurora didn’t play out the way the statists had hoped. Of course it could also be TROP, some kind of family dispute, or some nutcase who felt ripped off at a gas station. THe media and statists will look to exploit this one like they always do.
CNN is showing the WISN12 TV live stream at present.
Local Fox affiliate reporting SWAT entered and took down 3 shooters. We’ll see if it’s true. Hopefully.
And yes, prayers for all victims, and hot lead for the shooters.
Prayers up. If there is more than one shooter, my bet is on Chechen Islamists.
Prayers up. If there is more than one shooter, my bet is on Chechen Islamists.
Next episode in The Won’s August surprise?
Sounds like Liberal black ops operation to influence the election, I wonder what his DU screen name is?
I mean, seriously, why else would anyone target these peaceful people other than their beliefs? They're so peaceful, most people don't even know they exist.
WISN helo reporter says they are hearing that there are still shooters (plural) inside.
Many people never bother to learn the facts about aanything.
I have discussed the Sikhs with some people at work ,and they insist”towelheads are all the same.
Never undersestimate the power of stupidity and laziness.
On FOX 6 a man is saying that most people were not there yet. Most usually arrive between 11:30-1pm. Lots of children inside. The shooting started outside.
Reports of at least three shooters, supposedly not members of the temple.
One witness told Newsradio 620 WTMJ’s Dan O’Donnell that at least two, possible four gunmen were hiding inside the temple. Reports of “hostage situation”.
Good idea. Why doesn't the media just send the killers a tweet so they know what's going on outside? Geeeez!
Hostage scenario suggests not your run-of-the-mill whackadoodle going off, doesn’t it? Makes you wonder abt some things...
One of the temple’s committee members, Ven Boba Ri, said that based on communication with people inside the temple, the shooter was a white male in his 30s.
“We have no idea,” he said of the motive. “It’s pretty much a hate crime. It’s not an insider.”
According to Ri, the man started shooting after he walked up to a priest who was standing outside, and shot him.
Then he went inside and started shooting.
People inside the temple were using cell phones to call people outside, saying please send help, Ri said.
“It’s sad, I don’t know how to describe it,” said Ri, who has been fielding calls all morning from around the world, including India.
“Sikhism is such a peaceful religion. We have suffered for generations, in India and even here.”
“We’re all the same. Everybody has the same blood,” said temple member Jaswinder Schandock.
Groups of temple members were gathered, on cell phones, conferring in small groups and watching from afar.
Oak Creek police were not giving out any information at this point.
Police (scanner) apparently are in contact with perp(s) inside. They are wanting food — something like 300 burgers.
Another police vehicle reports gridlock on the immediate roadways.
According to what I’ve heard, police may have shot one of the shooters.
‘Sounds like the Sunnis are up to old tricks.
Oh man, I hope so. Who would target these people for gosh sakes? This country is going nuts. We need a new leader.
Well, per an earlier post, hopefully they are still inside and rapidly assuming room temperature.
I took a flight when resumed after 9/11, and there was an older Sikh male waiting to get on the plane. He was festooned with “I love the USA” buttons and I recall feeling sorry for him. I was asked by an airline worker to change seats before boarding, no big deal. I found myself seated next to this guy, who was sandwiched between me and other short haired, large males who were probably also military or law enforcement types.
I told him that I felt bad that not everybody knew the difference between Sikhs and muzzies. He eyeballed me and the other guys around him, and said, “No problem, right now I feel very safe”. Made me laugh.
Hate to hear about this shooting. I hope it does no more damage than it already has.
Just saw an upset mother who’s children are locked up in the kitchen. :-(
Perhaps he was the intended target, and the others were killed to help hide the intent.
People from India don't eat beef, right?. Don't they consider the cow sacred?
300 burgers is what the police guy on scanner said.
McDonald’s got the order and replied that it would take about 30 minutes to fulfill the order.
I know the cow is considered sacred in India, but from what I’ve heard, the shooters are not Indian or even Sikh for that matter.
Tolerating Islamist intolerance
Crucially, it is precisely this tolerance of intolerance that has allowed vocal and violent radicalised Islamist minorities to silence Muslim majorities and to transform the global image of Islam into the grotesque parody of the faith that the Danish cartoons sought - perhaps indelicately - to reflect.
Offensive though these cartoons may have been - and they were not offensive to at least some Muslims, who saw in them, not an insult to the Prophet or the faith, but rather a critique of the unrelenting violence that has become the defining character of much of the Muslim world - the criminal incitement and calls to 'butcher/kill/behead those who insult Islam' have only reinforced the images the cartoons reflected, "allowing mass hysteria to define Islam's message".
What dishonours Islam more? A few irreverent cartoons? Or the acts of remorseless murder, of relentless violence against people of other faiths, of the intimidation and abuse of all other faiths and communities, which the Islamists - including states adhering to the Islamist ideology, such as Pakistan - routinely engage in? Why, then, does the Muslim world not rise up in rage against these fanatics and political opportunists who are bringing disgrace and disrepute to their faith? Why are the voices of criticism against extremist Islam and Islamist terrorism so muted?
Indeed, why is it that all occasional and invariably qualified criticism of these terrorists is accompanied by vague justifications of the need to 'understand root causes' and the 'hurt' caused to the 'Muslim psyche'? Is the 'Muslim psyche' uniquely susceptible to injury?
Venomous characterisations of Hindus, Jews, Christians and, generally, all kafirs, are the stock-in-trade of the discourse in some Muslim countries, often communicated through official media, such as national television channels. The ideologies of hatred against other faiths are systematically propagated in so many Muslim states - we in India are familiar with the Pakistani case, where school curricula routinely demonise non-Muslims.
And do the words or pictures or caricatures by non-Muslims do more injury to the 'Islamic world' than the hideous acts of terrorism that Islamists have been inflicting on non-Muslims - and, indeed, on so many Muslims - all over the world? Worse, after so many Muslim-majority states have simply wiped out their own minorities, or are, even today, in the process of doing so, these very states go shrieking around about 'hurting the sentiments of minorities' when something is said against Muslims or Islam.
Indeed, 'Islamic' states oppress even their own sectarian minorities - be they non-Wahabbi Sunnis in some cases, or Shia, Ismaili, Ahmadiya, or Sufi, in others - not only through systematic denial of elementary religious rights to these sects, but, as in the case of Pakistan, through state sponsored terrorist movements against such minorities - recall that the Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan was set up by General Zia-ul-Haq to target Shias in the wake of the Iranian revolution, and continued to enjoy the support of the state under successor regimes, till it got mixed up with the Al Qaeda and anti-US terrorism, and lost its status as a sarkari (state supported) jihadi organisation.
Many 'Islamic' countries have institutionalised this intolerance, outlawing the public practice of any other Faith, and made the possession of any religious icon, other than Muslim, a punishable offence. Non-Muslim minorities live in abject terror of blasphemy laws in Pakistan, as in many other Muslim countries.
The truth is, the state lies behind much of the Islamist extremism and frenzy that we are witnessing today. To return to the case of the Danish cartoons, there was no 'spontaneous outburst' of popular sentiment; it was only after the Organisation of Islamic Countries decided to whip up emotions around the issue, and states like Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and Saudi Arabia began to incite the rabble through official statements and actions, or statements by religious leaders tied to the regimes there, disseminated through official media, that the violent street protests commenced.
In Pakistan, the protests and the violence have principally been led by the Jamaat-ud-Dawa - the reincarnation of the purportedly 'banned' Lashkar-e-Toiba - which has flourished under state patronage, and that was cast by the Musharraf administration into a 'leadership' role recently in the relief operations after the earthquake that devastated parts of Pakistan occupied Kashmir.
But the 'cartoon crisis' is not unique. Even while this controversy was raging across the world, Shia minorities were being attacked by Sunni terrorists in Pakistan; in the Indian State of Jammu and Kashmir, a case was registered against the local chapter of the Bible Society of India for the 'grievous crime' of distributing "gas cylinders, three water bottles, audio cassettes and a copy of the New Testament in Urdu" to earthquake victims in a village in Uri.
In Ladakh, riots were engineered between Muslims and Buddhists because some torn pages of the Quran were recovered, leading to allegations of sacrilege. In the Aligarh Muslim University, a young girl was being threatened with collective rape for daring to protest against a diktat against wearing jeans and a T-shirt. These are only a few current and proximate examples of a remorseless oppression over the decades.
Such thuggeries are, of course, not unique to Islam. There are extremist groups drawing dubious 'inspiration' from other faiths who ape such conduct as well, and Valentines Day this year - as in the past few years - attracted the ire and violence of Hindu extremist hooligans. But these remain - fortunately - aberrations in the larger context of conduct among adherents of other faiths. They have increasingly become the dominant form of public articulation in the Muslim community.
There is an American Indian saying: 'it takes an entire village to raise a single child'. Similarly, it takes a very large community, often entire nations, to raise a single suicide bomber. For far too long, extremist Muslim discourse has been tolerated - to the point of incitement to murder - in the belief that acts of terrorism are distinct from such ideologies of hatred. But it is the wide acceptance within large sections of Muslim communities in many countries of these ideologies of hatred that produce the environment within which groups can mobilise, recruit motivate, train and deploy terrorists and suicide bombers.
Muslim liberals have long advocated 'understanding and tolerance' when dealing with Muslim sensibilities, but have seldom been known to aggressively argue for greater 'understanding and tolerance' for other faiths in 'Islamic' countries, where the record of intolerance towards and oppression of religious minorities is utterly revolting. There is a great 'Muslim exceptionalism' at work here.
The 'Muslim world' demands an absolute freedom without limits, but confers no freedom whatsoever, either on other faiths, or on dissent within its own faith. The 'tolerance' advocated by certain passages in the Quran is only something to parade at inter-faith conferences, and constitutes no part of the practice of most Muslim majority states - no doubt with occasional exceptions.
The demand, today, to impose a selective censorship in Europe on speech that is insulting to Muslims - when similar speech against other faiths enjoys full freedom - is an effort by Muslim minorities to impose, through mass violence and intimidation, their belief systems within the larger systems they have come to inhabit.
Europe would be, not only foolish, but suicidal, if it succumbs to this terrorism and coercion to invent new curbs on the media and on the freedom of speech. The democratic world must remain committed to its enlightenment values and ideals, and to the rough-and-tumble of free discourse in the 'marketplace of ideas'. All communal thuggeries, whatever faith they may claim to 'represent', must be brought to an end, and every available means must be bent to this purpose.
Personally, I think, the more fun we make of our own religions, the better it will be for the whole world, and, indeed, for our respective Faiths. I am immensely proud of being a Sikh, and am confident that no jokes or cartoons can ever undermine the eternal verities of my religion.
(Published in The Pioneer Newspaper, India. February 18, 2006)
Kanwar Pal Singh Gill
Kanwar Pal Gill, was born in Ludhiana, Punjab, India. He began his career as a police officer in the north-eastern state of Assam, quickly earning a reputation as a tough officer. He became a household name across the country as Punjab police chief in the early 1990s, when he was credited with crushing a separatist revolt in the Sikh-majority state.
Widely given credit for addressing the terrorism in Punjab, Mr Gill was dubbed Super Cop after his success in Punjab. He publishes the Faultlines journal and runs the Institute for Conflict Management, as well as advising governments and institutions on security related issues. He was asked by the government of Sri Lanka last year for similar advice. Mr Gill has also written a book, The Knights of Falsehood, which explores the abuse of religious institutions by the politics of freedom struggle in Punjab.
He got involved in sports administration after retirement and is currently the IHF ( Indian Hockey Federation) president.
He has also been appointed as a consultant by the Chattisgarh government to help tackle the Naxalite movement in the state.
Democracy and liberalism are not a sufficient defence and this is a fact that the ideologues of freedom need, equally, to comprehend. There is a fatal flaw in the liberal mind. Having established, in structure and form [though seldom in substance], a system of governance that corresponds to its conception of democracy, it feels that nothing more needs to be done. The Truths of the liberal ideology are, as the American Declaration on the Rights of Man expresses it, Self Evident. They require no proof, no reiteration, and no defence - certainly no defence by force of arms. Once democracy [or even the ritual of quinquinneal elections] is established, according to liberal mythology, the mystical invisible hand keeps everything in place; the superior wisdom of the masses ensures order and justice.... This is just so much rubbish. As we should know after living with falsehoods for fifty years now. Truth does not triumph; unless it has champions to propound it, unless it has armies to defend it.
From his book, Punjab: The Knights of Falsehood
For some critics his success is a part of the story started by predecessor Julio Francis Ribeiro who started the Bullet for Bullet campaign of hitting back at militants and the strong hand in dealing with militancy adopted by Chief minister Beant Singh.
There can't be 300 people in there. The criminals are going to force them to gorge on "sacred" beef, aren't they? It's like forcing a Muslim to burst his stomach open with pork.
I think cows are sacred to Hindus, but Sikhs are not Hindus.
from Greenfield police chief:
first 911 call came at 10:25am
officer who shot first shooter was shot in return multiple times!
still a hostage situation...
OK, who besides me heard that idiot reporter on CNN ask the polieceman “You said the shooter is down, does that mean he is dead?” (What an idiot!!!!)
My response would be ...”NO, he isnt dead, we just asked him to sit down, you blithering idiot”
Confirmed at least one gunman shoot by police down outside of temple. 1 policeman shot. Police don’t know if additional shooters are inside...
Maybe they’re going to force the hostages to eat beef against their religious beliefs?
Hope the cops screw up and get chicken.
Swat clearing rooms in temple looking for more shooters
IOW, a public skool graduate...
Froedhert hospital is currently treating 3 males with gunshot wounds.
Truly it is exactly what I thought when I heard this. Staged to help pave the way to take down concealed carry that we finally got through because although we have open carry, we get arrested and harassed for that.
Just seems too convenient. Plus all the recent nutter butters who have done this crap have been extremely pissed off liberal nutbags.
Please let it be someone other than a “Bubba”.
Looks like the police got to the scene very quickly.
For what?!? How’d he even know who to look for?
He better check the DNC donor list, have way better chance of finding this guy there.
Sikh temples serve food free of cost to all as a way of welcoming outsiders into their temples. The activity is called ‘langar’ and it is food prepared by the Sikh community.
The food is vegetarian so that no specific community feels unwelcomed.
As for beef, the ancient Hindu scriptures, the Vedas, composed by the Aryans who arrived India, has plenty of references to the consumption of cows. Vegetarianism arose with the advent of Buddhism in India, and strictly, there is no scriptural sanction against beef consumption in the core Hindu texts - the Vedas or the Gita.
I told my girlfriend that I’m starting to feel like I’m living in 1930’s Germany. Media was told that the first responding officer was shot multiple times but he took down the shooter in the parking lot. I heard on the scanner that the basement has been cleared but they’re going to double check.
Read the bottom of post #80. The religious leader is condemning liberalism - big time.
I'd like to know how this religion feels about certain elements of the liberal agenda. Bald headed, sleeveless white guys don't sound like Muslims. They sound like thugs, and maybe they're forcing the people inside to do something contrary to their beliefs. That type of thing would fit right into a liberal mind.
There's no reason anyone from a right wing group would oppose these people in any way IF this slaughter was based on political beliefs.
That was my first thought. My other thought is, what if it has nothing to do with eating. What if they just want to defile the bodies by throwing beef (in the form of hamburgers) on them.
If it’s anything at all along these lines then it means the shooters know (or think) their victims are Hindus/Indians and not Muslims.
AS of 1:11 pm reported tactical teams are working their way through the temple building.
Per police scanner they are checking out suspicious white male with backpack near scene.