Posted on 08/15/2012 10:58:20 AM PDT by Hostage
Changing the tax collection METHOD does not alter the economy one iota. Spending and entitlements are the problem not tax collection. Further, those that assert that their favorite form of taxation will “limit spending” are only fooling themselves. Congress can continue to spend and borrow as much as they want. Tax collection has no impact on spending.
I would prefer to see representative apportionment where the tax amount to be collected is then passed on to the state. 50% of the tax bill is assessed as a per senator bill and the remaining 50% is assessed as a per representative bill. States can then decide for themselves the best way to collect taxes. For some, that might be a sales tax, others property taxes, etc. Each state can then decide what works best for them. As an enforcement, the penalties for not making tax payments from the state to the federal government start with representatives losing their votes in committee and goes up from there.
The Fair Tax is a wrong headed sales tax that will do as much damage as any other tax.
Look at the way cash moves through the nation. Money flows into the hands of individuals (or companies) and out of their hands. If we do not capture a bit of this flow (in both directions), we will find the individuals (or companies) going offshore for the other side of the transaction.
eg, if you abandon income tax, in favor of a 28% sales tax, then people will make all the money here, and spend it on internet purchases from other countries. Oila’ NO REVENUE and damaged economy.
If you abandon the small sales tax, then people will attempt to earn money elsewhere and will spend it here. Oila’ LOW revenue and damaged economy.
We need a small sales tax and lower income tax. Then, consumers and earners will both participate in the cost of running this gigantic enterprise.
This Fair Tax thing seems all well and good on paper, it may even work. But, I don’t think “We the People” stand a snowballs chance in hell from ever getting away from the unlawful income tax imposed on us by the Feds.
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> “Changing the tax collection METHOD does not alter the economy one iota.”
The FairTax will tax spending in the USA and its territories. It will not tax US exports!
That means that American goods and services can be priced at 20% to 30% less to foreign buyers. This fact alone will revive American manufacturing and provide a bolus of +10% GDP growth in the first year of enactment.
America was once the economic engine of the world for quality goods. We Americans set the standard but since WWII our income taxes have crept up from below 10% to more than 30%. The result has been a shelving of our way of life and a comatose economy.
Even if we were to return to the tax policies of the 1950s, the tax system ALWAYS grows back like a cancer to what we have today. With the FairTax tax code, that can’t happen!
Read here and Study UP!
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq
> “If we do not capture a bit of this flow (in both directions), we will find the individuals (or companies) going offshore for the other side of the transaction.”
Oh really? So if we buy goods overseas for our use purposes at home, how do you propose getting these goods back into the USA? Smuggling? Are you suggesting that all American companies and individuals become lawbreakers?
I don’t know about you but if I buy a car overseas and ship it back here i will end up paying more especially when I try to register it and have to pay customs.
At the same time if there are people who don't like that they should be allowed 6 months to settle their affairs and go somewhere else.
Now, about the Fairtax ~ it ends up being related, in general, to personal income.
That's a big huge enormous mistake. That gives the government an opportunity to estimate what you should pay and then set laws so that they can force you to pay that.
144 individual tax filers versus 50 thousand tax lobbyists inside the Beltway. Not even a match but....it’s a question of educating the public now.
The debate is won by the FairTax on all points but the education process has only begun.
To turn a congressional member to the FairTax takes only about 3,000 committed FairTax activists in each district. To train the 3,000 takes education.
The video in the link is part of the education process.
Anything that would abolish the IRS, stop taxing my productivity and capture monetary transfer from the illegals/criminals flying under the radar.
Oh, did I mention....tax the crap outta money transfers to foreign nations?
>”Now, about the Fairtax ~ it ends up being related, in general, to personal income. That’s a big huge enormous mistake. That gives the government an opportunity to estimate what you should pay and then set laws so that they can force you to pay that.”
There is nothing in the FairTax code legislation about forcing any type of payment. The code is only 128 pages long. I suggest you show us the provisions in the code that cause people to be forced to pay anything.
Each year Congress must vote on the FairTax Sales Rate and every American will see what is going on, it will be completely transparent, no smoke and mirrors.
The method does matter. First, the income tax imposes a deadweight economic loss on the economy that may be as much as $400-$500 billion. Second, the civil liberties cost of the income tax is incalculable and utterly incompatible with a free society. Third, an income tax lends itself to political corruption to a far greater extent than the Fair Tax.
Nevertheless, you are entirely right that even with a Fair Tax the government will continue to spend and borrow as much as they can get away with and then some. The Fair Tax isn’t a solution to the spending problem. We need a Congressectomy and a Governmentectomy to accomplish that.
The FairTax does HELP with spending by making federal tax revenues transparent.
True the FairTax is not a solution to out of control spending but the Fairtax does provide an important piece of the arsenal for slaying the spending dragon.
To control the spending problem requires reform of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.
Notice that both the 16th and the Federal Reserve Act were both acomplished in 1913 under an arrogant academic president by the name of Woodrow Wilson, the absolute worst president in the history of the United States. The ratification and passage of 16th and the FRA in the same year is not a coincidence. And both were under the radar with the first post-16th income tax at only 1% on more than 98% of Americans.
Took one law!
Do you currently report all items purchased on the internet that are brought into your state? In AZ, we are supposed to report the total of OOS purchases so that a "use" tax can be assessed. Most people claim "O" purchases made. UPS delivers worldwide.
And, vehicles (such as Volvo) can be "overseas delivered" with a trip over to pick up, drive and ship back. The cost is actually lower than US delivery (well, it was a few years back). The customs is lower due to it being a "used" car.
But, you miss my point. If we abandon income tax altogether, then those who receive in-flow will escape tax altogether if they purchase overseas. Do you think a yacht purchased in the Caribbean will be taxed for the US consumer? Do you want the US Coast Guard to become the IRS?
Right now, the low income folks can escape taxation, which does not seem fair. If the Fair Tax is implemented, the rich will escape tax and that does not seem fair. Both are needed, but not a 28% rate and not by itself.
No country has ever had a FairTax. It is entirely an American innovation.
>”And, vehicles (such as Volvo) can be “overseas delivered” with a trip over to pick up, drive and ship back. The cost is actually lower than US delivery (well, it was a few years back). The customs is lower due to it being a “used” car.”
Every item imported into the United States will be subject to a FairTax under the customs section of the FairTax code. And “used car” tricks will not be tolerated.
You are talking about a small sliver of the overall global economy by persons who think they are clever to commit tax evasion. A few examples of such persons will be all it takes to let the public know to comply with the FairTax code.
The real benefit will be that US goods and services that are exported will not be taxes and that fact will provide a huge competitive advantage to the companies of these goods and service.
The FairTax in no way exempts the rich. Since it's entirely tied to spending, the only way for a rich person to avoid it is to live like a pauper. Frankly, I don't see the Kennedy clan, living off their trust funds, suddenly becoming beach bums. The FairTax also gives a prebate to the everyone up to the poverty level so, yes, the poor do 'escape' paying taxes to a certain degree but just on the portion of tax that is deemed necessary for a minimal standard of living.
But, as in the Kennedy example above, it greatly expands people who aren't covered by the current tax laws. Not just the trust fund babies, but everyone who buys something helps fund our government. Tourists, illegal aliens, criminals, etc. For the first time, all these people whose income is unreported (or earned elsewhere) will be supporting us!
Some may argue that this will create a huge black market. Studies show that this happens when people think (and, possibly, are correct) that prices are too high. The FairTax shifts the taxation from the entire production chain and puts it all on the end. It's designed to be revenue neutral so the total effect will be little net shift in the final price. Remember taxes are an expense to businesses and a free market will drive down prices when expenses are removed.
The majority of the politicians in Washington don’t want to fire up the economy so the fair tax has no chance. We have no chance to change the majority of the politicians in Washington so long as the majority of Americans hold a philosophy that holds production and free trade as evil.
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