Posted on 09/07/2012 1:54:04 PM PDT by marktwain
-- Samuel Adams
"Posterity, you will never know how much it cost the present generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in heaven that ever I took half the pains to preserve it."
-- John Adams
The death of Dr. Joseph Warren at the Battle of Bunker Hill
I’m not the one who is having the problem with understanding.
Our nation has sinned against God for more than a generation. What we see as a result is that there are virtually no men of God now in position to be leader of this country. So what this country is left with is sub-par choices. God has allowed there to be only these two men to have risen to the position they currently hold. Only one of them, not a third party candidate, will become president.
That being the case, there is nothing you can do, now, with getting elected a born again, conservative Christian to be president.
But there is something we can all do to help prevent a thoroughly evil, muslim, marxist from utterly destroying over the next four years what’s left of this country. Beyond this, Obama is a member of a party which is completely anti-God, anti-Jewish, and anti-Christian.
Romney is who will keep Obama out. He belongs to a party which at least has some semblance of pro Judeo-Christian morals and values, honors the Rule of Law, and desires to uphold the Constitution. That many people who call themselves a Republican but no longer personally hold these morals and values is beside the point: the Republican party does.
Sorry, but I am not going to vote for a candidate who supports abortion, the gay agenda, and the rest of the godless agenda of the Left in America. I won't vote for the one with the "D" after his name, and I won't vote for the one with the "R" either. I'll vote for other Republicans downticket who do generally hold to right principles, but Romney is simply a bridge too far. He's a no-go, and ought to be considered as such by any Christian who actually wants to please God, rather than man.
I don’t trust government. I don’t like big government. But, as opposed to living in some fantasyland, government isn’t going to go away because of my personal distrust or dislike. It is here to stay, forever. That is how countries are run.
Sorry, but, unlike you, I won’t help an evil, American-hating Marxist be re-elected.
Well, yes you will, just the other one who's running, instead of the incumbent.
As for the rest, I can see that you don't have a clue what I'm actually saying, so why bother with you?
How clever! You know how to post photos in support of the usual tiresome lies and in your ongoing pep rally for Mittler!!!
Of course, since there is nothing in #'d paragraphs 1-9 of my #26 that you attempt to refute as to Mittler's sorry POS track record. Therefore you concede the substance of each of them. How could you do otherwise???
NICMARLO:
I went to your homepage. As to your 15 Tea Party principles, Mittler would piss on all but 10 and 11. And he would not completely agree with 10. Both major party candidates CLAIM they would keep the Bush tax rates on those with incomes below $250,000. Romney would beef up the special interest tax cuts above that level, which are no skin off my nose regardless of outcome. He would also cut corporate tax rates. Ditto.
You seem to imagine that there is some meaningful difference between Mittler and Obozo. They are BOTH evils. You seem to imagine that God Himself wants you to vote for the "lesser" of two baby-killing, fudge-packer agenda embracing, gun-grabbing, Church persecuting, medical system ruining, etc. evils.
You also seem to imagine that opposing Mittler somehow equates to being a "born again Christian" who hates Mormons. I am a Roman Catholic. If Jesus Christ is not my Savior, I cannot imagine Who would be. I believe that the Scriptural reference to being born again references two sacraments: baptism and confirmation. Within Catholicism, one's god parents take various pledges on the infant's behalf and the process is completed when that same infant has reached the age of reason and, at confirmation, renews those pledges rationally in his/her own right. Thus he/she is "born again of water" (baptism) "and the Spirit" (confirmation). Nothing in my baptism or confirmation (or in my life experience with Mormons generally) would tolerate much less encourage hatred for Mormons as Mormons. The Mormons I have known have been reliably pro-life and pro-family and responsibly conservative unlike Mittler who should be an embarrassment to them. I challenge you to cite even a single instance here wherein I have opposed Mittler BECAUSE he is a Mormon.
Also, see the second paragraph of this post which was posted to mkjessup. It applies to you as well. Rather than defend your candidate's public track record (an impossibility for any actual conservative), you simply CLAIM that Obozo is worse.
I might add that for someone who makes the claim that God somehow would make choices between two social revolutionary monsters, you do have, other than the Tea Party stuff, a remarkably religiously preachy homepage.
Winnebago County, IL???
My reasons for opposing Mittler are stated in part in the numbered paragraphs 1 through 9 in my #26. Understandably, you are not willing to attempt to refute those paragraphs since they are not easy to refute without transgressing obvious truth about Mittler.
Then you want to ascribe to Obozo alone the quality of evil. And you would assign Romney's evil behavior as simply a misunderstanding on his part as allegedly a non-Christian, an allegation and controversy that I am not foolish enough to enter into. There are plenty of people who deny the Christianity of Catholicism though it is historically obvious that Jesus Christ established His Church on Peter. I don't and won't make a career of making believe that I can reliably refute the claims of others that they are Christian. As a Catholic, I will rely on popes and the Teaching Magisterium of the RCC to discern what is Scriptural or anti-Scriptural. Don't hold your breath waiting for any pope to justify anyone voting for baby-killers. Ain't gonna happen.
In refusing to vote for either major party evil, I AM using the brain that God gave me.
You left the GOP because it isn't pure enough for you while you plan to vote for Mittler??? What is that??? AND then you accuse those actual conservatives not willing to sell their own souls as you have of acting because Mittler is not a pure enough conservative. Mittler is no conservative at all and NEVER has been.
In your last three paragraphs, you seem to be doing an awful lot of speaking for God Who probably never appointed you to be His press secretary.
If it would not make sense to you to elect a thoroughly evil person as POTUS, it is hard to imagine why you would vote for Mittler OR Obozo since both are thoroughly evil. As to your Hitler analogy: If Obozo is Hitler, then Mittler is Stalin or vice versa. If you believe that the unborn are people as I do, you will have every confidence that both Obozo and Mittler are similarly committed to adding another 5 million or so baby bodies to the burn pile as murder victims. Stop kidding yourself that EITHER would stop the American Holocaust.
At least you admit that both Obozo and Mittler are public menaces. Why would any moral person vote for a public menace to be POTUS???
The Israelites originally did not have kings. They were ruled directly by God, who provided them with judges to discern the law, disputes among the people, and provide them with God's word. The Israelites sinned and asked for a king to be appointed over them so that they could be ruled by other nations.
Samuel 8:5-7 Saul, a man of "standing" was appointed as the first king of Israel post Exodus from Egypt. So, in a way, they DID elect their king; they just asked Samuel to do it for them (had their representative chose another to lead them; kind of like a one man electoral college). They rejected God in favor of a man, even against warnings.
Speaking of the kings - Jerimiah 8:1-2 At that time, saith the Lord, they shall bring out the bones of the kings of Judah, and the bones of his princes, and the bones of the priests, and the bones of the prophets, and the bones of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, out of their graves:
2 And they shall spread them before the sun, and the moon, and all the host of heaven, whom they have loved, and whom they have served, and after whom they have walked, and whom they have sought, and whom they have worshipped: they shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth.
How in good conscience could anyone vote for someone that believes they will one day be made even higher than a king, but a god (Mormon Romney)? (let's not forget about that pesky Commandment about not having other gods before the Big Guy)
Or vote for the practitioner of a barbaric religion that follows sharia (Muslim 0bama)?
Both of them reject the true deity of Christ. (Muslims have Him as a prophet and the Mormons have Him as a devout man that became a god.
John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
Between 0bama and Romney, which candidate does NOT support -
Baby murder
socialized medicine (which leads to rationing)
restriction of gun rights
fag marriage
The answer is neither, ergo there is no viable choice. Faggotry is an abomination. But, Jesus was sort of lax and rather lenient regarding children -
Matthew 18:5-6 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Or, for the "lesser of two evils crowd" take a look at Genesis 37:12-28
When Joseph, Jacob's favorite son was plotted against by his brothers. They sought to kill him, but one brother convinced the others it would be less evil if they just threw Joseph in a cistern. Then another brother decided it would be lesser evil if they sold Joseph as a slave. Most likely, the Ishmaelites would kill Joseph. Yet, the evil was still in their hearts. They chose the lesser of two evils. And then again chose the lesser of two evils. But, the sin is the same committed in their hearts.
Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Sometimes, a man must discern for himself whether he will be committing a sin against his own covenant with God - Romans 14:2-3 For one believeth that he may eat all things, while another who is weak eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him that eateth not, judge him that eateth; for God hath received him.
If one can clearly see another as sinful and abominable, not a follower of God how are they foolish in chosing to not follow-
James 14:7 7 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
If you truly believe and hear God telling you that neither is an option for you, as some other posters have stated (myself included on other threads); I would go ahead and recommend not going about your own course. God doesn't have an (R) after his name and cares not for affiliations you put before HIM.
If you cannot vote for either man in good consciousness, it is perfectly justifiable to vote for neither -
We can be in the world, but not of it.
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
This is the lesser of two evils argument - Option A: eternal damnation in a lake of fire.
Option B: Cast into darkness with wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Not yet.
Matthew 12:25-29 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
There is another very interesting parallel -
Matthew 20:16So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Joseph was the youngest (last). As was King David; as was Solomon. As was Jacob lesser than Esau.
I don't think you've thought this all the way through.
Perhaps. We shall see.
Has it not occurred to you that God uses those 'lesser of two evils' situations to manifest His Will and to assure that the best results are produced from what man's limited mind perceives as the worst potential?The fact is, this is absolutely true, throughout time. A great example of this is found in Daniel, who was taken captive and brought to a peoples and king hostile to God, so that God's greater purpose and glory would be revealed through unbelievers by causing man's heart to be softened toward those whom He would have them show mercy and kindness (memory refresher):I don't think you've thought this all the way through.
1 In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it. 2 And the Lord delivered Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, along with some of the articles from the temple of God. These he carried off to the temple of his god in Babylonia and put in the treasure house of his god.Because of Daniel and his faith, he had HUGE influence of many people, especially those with power and command. The same can happen within our country. The Republican party, with all its faults, can at least stand proud (at this time) in that it has not become an EVIL party. It embraces God, Judeo-Christian values, the Constitution, and the Rule of Law. Romney, for ALL his faults and liberal tendencies and even wrongdoing, is part of the Republican party. If he is elected, he will not be surrounding himself with advisers from a party that has thrice denied God, has, up until last week conveniently, denied Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel, contravenes the Rule of Law at every opportunity, embraces moral relativism, homosexuality, and trashes the United States Constitution, all the way up to the Supreme Court, both here and during travels abroad. Helping Obama be re-elected by voting third party (which always helps the incumbent) or not voting at all (low turnout also helps the incumbent) is helping the Democrats retain power, gives them more of a 'mandate' to continue shoving their godless agenda down our throats, and is, de facto, encouraging ever more evil be brought upon this country and our People. These are the known consequences for third party/abstention from voting. God cannot possibly support a persons intention to act in such a way when they already know the consequence is knowingly will help bring about an evil man to power.3 Then the king ordered Ashpenaz, chief of his court officials, to bring into the king’s service some of the Israelites from the royal family and the nobility— 4 young men without any physical defect, handsome, showing aptitude for every kind of learning, well informed, quick to understand, and qualified to serve in the king’s palace. He was to teach them the language and literature of the Babylonians. 5 The king assigned them a daily amount of food and wine from the king’s table. They were to be trained for three years, and after that they were to enter the king’s service.
6 Among those who were chosen were some from Judah: Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah. 7 The chief official gave them new names: to Daniel, the name Belteshazzar; to Hananiah, Shadrach; to Mishael, Meshach; and to Azariah, Abednego.
8 But Daniel resolved not to defile himself with the royal food and wine, and he asked the chief official for permission not to defile himself this way. 9 Now God had caused the official to show favor and compassion to Daniel, 10 but the official told Daniel, “I am afraid of my lord the king, who has assigned your food and drink. Why should he see you looking worse than the other young men your age? The king would then have my head because of you.”
11 Daniel then said to the guard whom the chief official had appointed over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah, 12 “Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13 Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see.” 14 So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days.
15 At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food. 16 So the guard took away their choice food and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead.
17 To these four young men God gave knowledge and understanding of all kinds of literature and learning. And Daniel could understand visions and dreams of all kinds.
18 At the end of the time set by the king to bring them into his service, the chief official presented them to Nebuchadnezzar. 19 The king talked with them, and he found none equal to Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah; so they entered the king’s service. 20 In every matter of wisdom and understanding about which the king questioned them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians and enchanters in his whole kingdom. 21 And Daniel remained there until the first year of King Cyrus.
As an additional point, and what I previously stated regarding this:
Our nation has sinned against God for more than a generation. What we see as a result is that there are virtually no men of God now in position to be leader of this country. So what this country is left with is sub-par choices. God has allowed there to be only these two men to have risen to the position they currently hold. Only one of them, not a third party candidate, will become president.Do you believe that God would be pleased with the consequences of your actions in that you would be helping an man with an evil heart who belongs to an evil party be re-elected into the White House? You think that God could possibly say it is preferable to give these kinds of people continued power for another 4 years compared to voting for a Republican party member where there is at least a modicum of chance that God could influence him through REPUBLICAN advisers and administration, who we earnestly pray would be godly, upright men, who have the best interests of the County and people in mind? There is ZERO chance that Obama seeks out even one godly man to influence him or his decisions. We've already witnessed that Obama has been mentored by godless, racist, American-hating terrorists, liars, tax cheats, and frauds for his cabinet. I have more faith that the next Pope would be a Muslim than the current Muslim in the White House would ever stop being a tool of Satan.That being the case, there is nothing you can do, now, with getting elected a born again, conservative Christian to be president.
But there is something we can all do to help prevent a thoroughly evil, Muslim, Marxist from utterly destroying over the next four years what’s left of this country. Beyond this, Obama is a member of a party which is completely anti-God, anti-Jewish, and anti-Christian.
Romney is who will keep Obama out. He belongs to a party which at least has some semblance of pro Judeo-Christian morals and values, honors the Rule of Law, and desires to uphold the Constitution. That many people who call themselves a Republican but no longer personally hold these morals and values is beside the point: the Republican party does.
Since you evidently do not grasp what my homepage is about, however, I shall address that. I am concerned with those who call themselves Christian and claim to have superior Christian knowledge, understanding, virtues, faith and conservative ideologies. It is my observation that these same also believe they have the right to judge the hearts and souls of those who contradict them. It is a sad fact, however, that these "Christian leaders'" own behavior is sabotaging their testimony as their behaviors are in contradiction to the Scriptures. By behaving contrary to the Scriptures, my concern is that unbelievers will shun Christ. As a Christian, I am taught that those things which are of permanence take precedence over the temporal, a lesson apparently quite forgotten by those who presume themselves Christian leaders armed with the hammers and saws. For some, it may be more difficult to attempt to act more like the perfect One and be Christ-like, so I believe the Apostle Paul would not tell me I was being 'preachy' at all; he'd probably understand why I am pointing toward him, an imperfect but perfectly changed man, as a role model for Christian behavior.
The main flaw in your theory is that Romney is evil.
I do not think God would be pleased with my actions of voting for a man that believes he will one day be a god. Romney has surrounded himself with left leaning advisers; abortionists, gun grabbers, global warming loons, queer marriage supporters, and NWO types. I do not have a good choice, nor do I trust what Myth has good in his heart.
In the instances you have provided, the king of Judah was delivered unto an enemy because of his sin. Sin begets sin. God did not do evil, he just allowed the king of Judah to fall to his own demise; the Lord turned from him because he continued to turn from the Lord. That is not an excuse to find lesser ways to turn from the Lord.
Daniel did not chose the lesser of two evils, as your own quote shows -
But Daniel resolved not to defile himself with the royal food and wine, and he asked the chief official for permission not to defile himself this way.
Daniel did not say that it was okay because God allowed Neb to besiege and conquer Jerusalem. It was not okay for Daniel to follow Neb's God because it was lesser evil than the king of Judah.
Instead, as your quote shows, Daniel remained steadfast in his faith and witnessed to King Neb.
Has it not occurred to you that God uses those 'lesser of two evils' situations to manifest His Will and to assure that the best results are produced from what man's limited mind perceives as the worst potential?
I do. But, I don't think HE expects us to chose evil. Rather than succumbing to the world and the belief that all we have left is evil, we should remain steadfast and refuse to chose evil.
God cannot possibly support a persons intention to act in such a way when they already know the consequence is knowingly will help bring about an evil man to power.
Exactly. Which is why I cannot and will not support a man that supports abortion, gay marriage, etc. It does not matter to me whether (R) or (D). Aborted babies are no less dead under abortion champion Romney. The religious institution of marriage is no less harmed if the champion of "queer marriage" is a Republican. Medicine is no less socialized under 0Care than RomneyCare. Gun rights are under no less threat under gun grabber Romney than under gun grabber 0bama.
We do have a choice; not to participate in the evil one's game. he wants us to feel hopeless, to feel fear, to feel like we have to chose the evil choice before us. I don't feel fear. I am not hopeless and I do not accept the choice before me.
Our nation has sinned against God for more than a generation. What we see as a result is that there are virtually no men of God now in position to be leader of this country.
So had the people of Israel, yet Nehemiah still rebuilt Jerusalem. He didn't fall into the evil traps laid before him. See also Moses leading his people out of Egypt. These men were men that remained above the fray (or did their best attempts). They did not settle for the status qua or just accept lesser evil.
If Hillary suddenly jumped ship and became part of the GOP, and was running against 0 would you vote for her?
If 0bama became an (R) and was running against Bill Ayers who would you vote for? My point is Romney supports many of the same atrocities as does 0bama. I do not feel comfortable giving my account by saying, 'well he was a Republican.' God does not vote party line.
At what point is it acceptable to say we will not sully ourselves with such evil?
At what point do we send the message to the GOPE in the general that if you do not put forth candidates to represent us, we will not support them?
You may be comfortable waiting until 2020, but I'm not.
I will not support an abortionist, queer "marriage" supporter, gun grabber, or supporter of socialized medicine. I don't care what party they belong to.
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