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Buckeyes for Concealed Carry President Uses Handgun to Defend Family
Buckeye Firerams Association ^ | 19 September, 2012 | cbaus

Posted on 09/19/2012 7:38:43 AM PDT by marktwain

At approximately 7:00 pm Saturday night, Ohio State Students Joe and Amanda Smith were approached by a threatening white male near Westland Mall requiring Joe, Buckeyes for Concealed Carry on Campus President, to use his concealed handgun to defend himself, his wife Amanda, and their sixteen month old son Kyedin.

The threatening male approached their vehicle while Amanda was buckling Kyedin into his stroller and Joe was near the tailgate. He began making cat calls at Amanda as he closed in on her. Amanda and Joe asked him to leave them alone. Joe placed himself between his wife and the aggressor while a panicked Amanda began to remove Kyedin from the stroller and place him back into the vehicle. The male then became belligerent and began issuing threats to Joe.

"He just kept coming, no matter what I said. Then he told me he had a gun and had no problem killing all of us," said Joe. Joe instructed Amanda to call the police while he engaged the threat. "He kept saying he was going to kill us. He stopped short to answer his phone and told whoever it was where he was and to come help him get this 'white honky.'"

"I demanded he stop, but he didn't. When he was about fifteen feet away, I drew my handgun," Joe explained. "I was prepared to shoot, but didn't have to."

According to Joe, the aggressor stopped, raised his hands, and began apologizing. An older vehicle arrived, presumably with the aggressor's backup. He got into the vehicle and left.

"I was terrified," said Amanda. "I'm glad Joe had his gun. Who knows what would've happened if he didn't."

Deputy Zachary P. Cooper (#933) of the Franklin County Sheriff's office responded to Amanda's 911 call in approximately 7 minutes. Deputy Cooper told Joe "this is exactly why law abiding citizens can carry firearms. I'm a firm believer in it."

Ohio Students for Concealed Carry State Director Michael Newbern points out that "Joe was forced to defend himself with his handgun on a Saturday." Newbern added, "What if this incident occurred on a weekday when Joe and Amanda were going home from campus and he would have been disarmed by Ohio State policy?

"This is why Ohio Students for Concealed Carry and Buckeyes for Concealed Carry is suing Ohio State to bring the student code of conduct in line with Ohio Revised Code," he added.

Students for Concealed Carry is a nationwide non-partisan student organization. The group's sole mission is to restore the right of law-abiding citizens to carry concealed firearms on all public university campuses. The group works to accomplish this mission by educating the public, university officials, and lawmakers of the facts about campus carry and lobbying to remove the restrictions on campus carry from the laws of the state.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: 2012; armedcitizen; assault; banglist; defense; oh
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This defense was never reported in the MSM, not even in the local paper. The best survey estimates are that citizens use guns to stop crimes or defend themselves between 1.5 and 2.5 million times a year. Upwards of 95 percent of these defenses occur without a shot being fired.
1 posted on 09/19/2012 7:38:46 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

I find it a little odd that a white male would refer to another white person as a white honky.


2 posted on 09/19/2012 7:45:01 AM PDT by patriotsblood
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To: marktwain

“Then he told me he had a gun and had no problem killing all of us.”

That is enough for Cletus to double-tap and then eliminate the driver of the getaway car when he arrived.

Too much “gun control” on Joe’s part was a dis-service to society.


3 posted on 09/19/2012 7:47:20 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The acronym explains the science.)
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To: patriotsblood

:: I find it a little odd that a white male would refer to another white person as a white honky. ::

Those of Hispanic descent are classified as “caucasion” as are...odly enough...those of Middle Eastern descent.

Just saying...(so how can perceived “bias” against chicanoes and towleheads be racist?)


4 posted on 09/19/2012 7:50:30 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The acronym explains the science.)
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To: marktwain

Most of these type of self defense situations go unreported as the cops often are not called.

I wonder how many lives are saved in this manner.


5 posted on 09/19/2012 7:59:22 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: patriotsblood

“I find it a little odd that a white male would refer to another white person as a white honky.”

Gangsta wannabe.


6 posted on 09/19/2012 8:00:46 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Cletus.D.Yokel
“Then he told me he had a gun and had no problem killing all of us.” That is enough for Cletus to double-tap and then eliminate the driver of the getaway car when he arrived. Too much “gun control” on Joe’s part was a dis-service to society.

Truthfully, the story sounds a little contrived to me. Don't pull it until there is a real threat of severe bodily injury or death. Then, when you pull it, use it. Some punk ass mouthing off at 15 ft, while disconcerting, is no real threat to me.

7 posted on 09/19/2012 8:02:32 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: paul51; All

As near as we can tell from surveys, about 95 percent of the time, the mere presence of the firearm is enough to defuse the situation, as it did in this case.

If you wait until you are forced to shoot, you forego the possibility of defusing the situation early, and may have to fight for your life.

Most people would rather have the criminal run off than be forced to shoot them.


8 posted on 09/19/2012 8:06:44 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Only white-trash hillbillies and no-account 0bama voters live near Westland Mall in Columbus. This is no surprise.

He should have shot out the car’s tires as they fled.

Or just put this dirtbag out of his misery.


9 posted on 09/19/2012 8:07:13 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine ("On the ascent of Olympus, what's a botched bar or two?" -Artur Schnabel)
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To: patriotsblood

You’ve obviously never heard an Eminem CD.


10 posted on 09/19/2012 8:09:40 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine ("On the ascent of Olympus, what's a botched bar or two?" -Artur Schnabel)
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To: patriotsblood

My thought exactly.


11 posted on 09/19/2012 8:10:06 AM PDT by pallis
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To: Emperor Palpatine

Nope. Never have. I do like M&Ms though, although I just about killed my dental health by eating them all the way through grad school when I was writing my thesis.


12 posted on 09/19/2012 8:14:11 AM PDT by patriotsblood
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To: paul51

Mouthing off? Really? “I have a gun and will kill you.” is mouthing off? Sad to know that you will die before Cletus would in that same situation.

IIRC, 27 ft is the minimum taught to FBI/CIA/LEO for:

holster pull
safety off
shoot.


13 posted on 09/19/2012 8:16:47 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The acronym explains the science.)
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To: Vaquero
I wonder how many lives are saved in this manner.

Great question.

Gunfacts.com estimates anywhere from 2-4+ million times a year.

14 posted on 09/19/2012 8:20:12 AM PDT by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: marktwain

Mark, your service to FR in posting 2A articles are deeply appreciated. I agree that the majority of street criminals can be run-off by the presence of a gun. I, too, would rather present my firearm and have the thug run away.

The difference I see is this was no ordinary street punk according to his own threats. A threat of death to the entire family is more than “disconcerting” (to quote another FReeper).

Cletus ain’t no shoot-em-up cowboy from Texas but 15 ft is too close for someone to threaten my wife and children.

Double-tap.


15 posted on 09/19/2012 8:25:29 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The acronym explains the science.)
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To: Cletus.D.Yokel
unfortunately, different rules apply to LEO. Try explaining why you shot an unarmed man at 15ft because he scared you.
16 posted on 09/19/2012 8:26:57 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: Vaquero

:: I wonder how many lives are saved in this manner. ::

I’d say, in this case, 5.

3 innocents who can go about pursuing life, liberty and happiness.

2 who can continue limitless crime sprees of all sorts, preying on the 53%.


17 posted on 09/19/2012 8:28:24 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The acronym explains the science.)
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To: marktwain
Deputy Zachary P. Cooper (#933) of the Franklin County Sheriff's office responded to Amanda's 911 call in approximately 7 minutes.

Once again, when seconds count the police are minutes away. Thankfully the deputy sounds like one of the good guys on the issue of concealed carry.

18 posted on 09/19/2012 8:35:23 AM PDT by KarlInOhio ("Government is the only thing that we all belong to"=implicit repeal of the 13th amendment for all.)
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To: marktwain
Deputy Zachary P. Cooper (#933) of the Franklin County Sheriff's office responded to Amanda's 911 call in approximately 7 minutes. Deputy Cooper told Joe "this is exactly why law abiding citizens can carry firearms. I'm a firm believer in it."

Second Amendment - when seconds count and police are minutes away.

19 posted on 09/19/2012 8:38:01 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: paul51

I gotta say, if the guy were acting belligerent and threatening me I’d do what the guy in the article did - pull out the gun and warn him. Then if he kept advancing toward me I’d shoot him until he stopped advancing. Obviously all verbal threats aren’t the same and don’t necessarily warrant pulling a gun.


20 posted on 09/19/2012 8:38:10 AM PDT by opus86
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To: paul51; All
Try explaining why you shot an unarmed man at 15ft because he scared you.

All of my CCW students are taught the Tueller drill. They are able to have the information that they knew that a person within 21 feet was able to get to them in under 2 seconds, made available to the court, just as most police officers can. I consider this information to be essential in any self defense course.

21 posted on 09/19/2012 8:53:28 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: paul51

A punk can close that 15ft to zero in less than a second.

To me a punk mouthing off at 15ft is a threat.


22 posted on 09/19/2012 8:54:55 AM PDT by super7man
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To: paul51
Judging by the story I would have taken the man as a threat. Even though I'm an ex Marine I'm 65yo, have chronic gout in my left foot, my legs are shot from climbing up and down a tower crane most of my life, I would have a difficult time fighting off a young punker. When I leave our home,,,, I ALWAYS CARRY. Thankfully I've never been in that situation but if I was I would do the same thing "Joe" did and If I had to the punker would get shot with a 210G bowling pin match bullet.

I'D RATHER BE TRIED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6!!!!

23 posted on 09/19/2012 8:57:01 AM PDT by progunner (no compromise)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

Last time I checked “white honkey” was redundant. If you’re white, you’re a honkey. (Unless you’re in Hawaii, in which case you’re a haole.)


24 posted on 09/19/2012 9:05:15 AM PDT by Little Ray (AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Little Ray

Yes lets ammend the description of the perp from “approached by a while male” to “Approached by an ignernt white male”. LOL!!!


25 posted on 09/19/2012 9:10:16 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: paul51

Sir, I respectfully disagree about your 15 foot rule. Just for grins, measure off 15 feet and get someone to time you how long it takes YOU to cover 15 feet. Then have that person time you on how fast you can draw and present your weapon.

I think police use a 21 foot rule. Even with a knife the aggressor has the chance to do some serious damage to you.


26 posted on 09/19/2012 9:10:16 AM PDT by Tahoe3002
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To: paul51
unfortunately, different rules apply to LEO. Try explaining why you shot an unarmed man at 15ft because he scared you.

I bet most in law enforcement would have no problem with it. Now the states attorney, that's another story. They are the ones who make the decision to charge. And we know how political those position are.

27 posted on 09/19/2012 9:15:02 AM PDT by dznutz
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To: Tahoe3002
Fair enough. You can defend yourself any way you see fit. I don't want to be in a position of trying to explain why I shot someone at 15 ft that was threatening me. Obviously the display of a weapon by the threatener would change the situation.
28 posted on 09/19/2012 9:17:52 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: dznutz
“Then he told me he had a gun and had no problem killing all of us.” That is enough for Cletus to double-tap and then eliminate the driver of the getaway car when he arrived.

I don't know how the police are where you live but I don't think this would fly with the LEO in my jurisdiction

29 posted on 09/19/2012 9:21:20 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: patriotsblood
"I find it a little odd that a white male would refer to another white person as a white honky."

Amish!

30 posted on 09/19/2012 9:22:55 AM PDT by Mormon Cricket
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To: marktwain

“within 21 feet was able to get to them in under 2 seconds”

I was just about to say he was within the Tueller drill. Explanation for those who don’t know Tueller drill and why it is important:

It is a fact that a human can close on you from 21 feet faster than you can draw your weapon and fire to prevent engagement (2 seconds). If the bad guy has a knife, bat, or even his fists, he will reach you before you can use your pistol. Now you are in a melee fight at a disadvantage (preventing bad guy from getting gun, trying to reach your gun, protecting yourself). This is exactly what happened in the Zimmerman/Martin fight.

Mythbusters did a pseudo-Tueller drill last season.


31 posted on 09/19/2012 9:23:02 AM PDT by Azeem (There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo.)
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To: patriotsblood
It doesn't surprise me. I see plenty of white males that look like something out of that "Deliverance" movie with ball caps on cocked and backward and rap music playing in their cars. That crap appeals to the low IQ crowd. They self identify with the crap music. Too many skateboard accidents, excessive weed and other drug abuse.
32 posted on 09/19/2012 9:31:32 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Cletus.D.Yokel

Thank you for the kind words.


33 posted on 09/19/2012 9:37:30 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: paul51
“Then he told me he had a gun and had no problem killing all of us.” That is enough for Cletus to double-tap and then eliminate the driver of the getaway car when he arrived.

I don't know how the police are where you live but I don't think this would fly with the LEO in my jurisdiction

I never said it's OK to eliminate the driver of the getaway car. I said in the end it is the States Attorney who is the decision maker as far as charging is concerned. At least it is in my jurisdiction.

34 posted on 09/19/2012 9:39:38 AM PDT by dznutz
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To: Myrddin
It doesn't surprise me. I see plenty of white males that look like something out of that "Deliverance" movie with ball caps on cocked and backward and rap music playing in their cars.

I call them Wanksters.

35 posted on 09/19/2012 10:03:08 AM PDT by BlueMondaySkipper (Involuntarily subsidizing the parasite class since 1981)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

Senator Byrd (WVA) deceased, described this group of “whites in name only” gangsta wannabees.

They install boom boxes in their little rice rockets (aka nissans, toyos of any kind— but moving up market to include SUVs of japanese make), and loudly play rap music, white or black as a form of their supposed “culture”. This is well known to the police, and many of these are in the drug distribution network— the “clockers”.

The term Byrd used was “whigger”. And THAT is what kind of individual would call a white couple with baby in stroller— “white honkey”.

Note that the race of the driver of the “backup” car was not identified. That would be additionally telling. Glad they were unharmed and this was a case in point for the Right to Keep AND BEAR Arms.


36 posted on 09/19/2012 11:05:40 AM PDT by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: paul51
Some punk ass mouthing off at 15 ft, while disconcerting, is no real threat to me.

Just curious, how fast can an assailant cover 15 ft?

37 posted on 09/19/2012 11:11:56 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (')
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To: Hot Tabasco
Some punk ass mouthing off at 15 ft, while disconcerting, is no real threat to me. Just curious, how fast can an assailant cover 15 ft?

Just curious, do you think I should brandish a firearm every time someone threatens me at 15ft? As a general rule, I won't pull out a fire arm unless I am going to fire it and I'm not firing unless I can justify killing someone. Someone threatening me with their mouth at 15 ft doesn't cut it for me. Someone threatening me at 15 ft with a weapon is a whole different threshold.

38 posted on 09/19/2012 11:31:23 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: paul51
Your attention is directed to post #31.
39 posted on 09/19/2012 11:35:44 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: Mr. Lucky

as if I missed it or there is something there I’m not well aware of


40 posted on 09/19/2012 12:02:20 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: paul51
Just curious, do you think I should brandish a firearm every time someone threatens me at 15ft?

I asked you first......

41 posted on 09/19/2012 1:08:06 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (')
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To: Hot Tabasco

If I’m not sleeping, probably not fast enough for me to avoid them and prepare to deal with them


42 posted on 09/19/2012 1:41:45 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: paul51
Just curious, do you think I should brandish a firearm every time someone threatens me at 15ft?

You? Of course not, you're superman finally married to superwoman and the baby your wife is trying to secure in your vehicle is indestructable.

I wish I was you........

43 posted on 09/19/2012 2:12:06 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (')
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To: Azeem

Drawing a weapon is serious - but sounds justified in this case - and IT WORKED!! Verbal commands at first to try and stop the threat is good. When they failed the weapon was drawn. The thug is lucky he raised his hands and left. One more step towards the family and he would/should have been killed.


44 posted on 09/19/2012 2:24:20 PM PDT by 21twelve (So I [God] gave them over to their stubborn hearts to follow their own devices. Psalm 81:12)
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To: Hot Tabasco
I don't know what your point is (other than stupidity and sarcasm). Some how I've managed to stay alive and out of trouble without brandishing a firearm every time someone gave me a hard time. In your mind that may take superman type powers but that's ok, I understand.
45 posted on 09/19/2012 2:29:05 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: paul51
I don't know what your point is

Sure you do but you're unwilling to admit that one person's perception of a threat does not equal yours. And you're also unable to come to grips with the fact that brandishing a weapon in a hostile environment does not mean that it needs to discharged at the threat.

My suggestion to you superman is to reread the article and tell me where the guy was wrong in brandishing his weapon after being threatened with death to both him and his family with a firearm that the potential assailaint claimed he had as well as calling in a homie to help him.

I don't care how much of a badass you think you are or how fast you think you can draw Hickock but 1.5 seconds is likely to get you, or your wife or your child killed if that is the assailant's intent........

Keep in mind that concealed weapons are for those who do not have the highly honed skills which you obviously have..........

46 posted on 09/19/2012 3:10:39 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (')
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To: paul51
As a final statement, if brandishing the firearm by this individual in the presence of wife and baby prevented a possible escalation of violence, why are you so critical of his actions?

You weren't there nor were your wife and baby.............

47 posted on 09/19/2012 3:17:27 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (')
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To: Hot Tabasco

If your reading comprehension was a little stronger you would see my original comment was to the other fool who said the subject of the article should have started blasting the thug and the guy that drove up. I wouldn’t second guess anyone that made a reasonable decision on how he thought he should defend himself and his family. I also said as much in a follow up post. As for me, chances are I’m not pulling a firearm until I’m going to fire. If you have a problem with that, I couldn’t care less.


48 posted on 09/19/2012 3:17:47 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: paul51
As for me, chances are I’m not pulling a firearm until I’m going to fire.

How do you know that wasn't his intent?

49 posted on 09/19/2012 3:20:22 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (')
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To: Hot Tabasco

We know because he didn’t fire. Just as well because as far as we know, the thug was armed with a cell phone.


50 posted on 09/19/2012 3:41:09 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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