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All-Chinese jets to serve on nation's first carrier
China.org.cn ^ | September 28, 2012

Posted on 09/28/2012 6:48:28 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

All-Chinese jets to serve on nation's first carrier

China's first aircraft carrier will be equipped with aircraft developed from fighters made in China, Ministry of Defense spokesman Yang Yujun said Thursday.

Chinese J-15 fighters.[File photo]

Domestic military officials and analysts are predicting that Chinese J-15 fighters, instead of Russia's Su-33 fighter, will be used as many photographs had been published showing the plane on the Liaoning's deck.

The current weak point of the J-15, also known as the Flying Shark, which is said to be a match for US F-18 Hornet fighters, is its Russia-made Al-31 engines which are less powerful than those of the American F-35 fighter, said Hu Siyuan, a professor with the National Defense University PLA China.

"However, the J-15 will be more competitive in future when the Chinese jet is equipped with made-in-China engines because the US jet has only a single engine," he said.

The twin-engined Chinese fighter made its maiden flight in 2009 in northeastern Shenyang.

China's J-31 stealth fighter may also be used on the carrier in future, analysts said.

The J-31 attracted wide public attention in June when some online pictures showed the cutting-edge fighter fully wrapped but with its futuristic shape still discernible.

"Both fighters have twin engines and will have great potential to upgrade weapons load and fighting ability in future," said military analyst Qu Yanbing, adding that the Liaoning would have about 40 fixed-wing aircraft on board.

Yang on Thursday dismissed foreign media reports saying that China is building a second aircraft carrier in Shanghai and that it will be launched late this year.

"Such reports are inaccurate," Yang said at the regular news briefing.

Though the carrier could be combat ready at any time, it will continue to be used for scientific research and experiments as well as military training, Yang said.

"Aircraft carriers can be used for both attack and defense as well as to safeguard the peace and for rescue works in disasters, but, for the Liaoning, experiments and training are its major task," he said.

As for the Liaoning's impact on China's surrounding areas, Yang stressed that the country adheres to the path of peaceful development, independent foreign policy and pursues a defensive national policy.

(Shanghai Daily contributed to the story.)


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Japan; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: aerospace; china; japan; navair; russia

China's J-31 stealth fighter.[File photo]

1 posted on 09/28/2012 6:48:36 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki
The J-31 is a rumor. If it exists, it is an experimental test bed. Far from even the prototype stage,.

The J-15 is built in China and is indegenous.. But it was an illegal copy of the Russian SU-33 based on the SU-27 kits the Chinese were using to build their J-11s (which they have also now completely copied) and a prototype SU-33 they opbtained from the Ukraine. They abjectly violated Russia's intellectual; rights.

Fine...this is Red on Red arguement. but it makse clear that what Romney says is true. The Chinese have no respect for international law our copyright or intellectual rights. Either militarily or in normal commerce.

As to the J-15s. They will be good aircraft, but they only have six prototypes now and are just starting production. It will be at least 18 months before they have a squardon ready for that carrier...and then they have to get trained...which will take another year or two. The carrier will be fangless for another 3-4 years.

2 posted on 09/28/2012 6:55:22 AM PDT by Jeff Head ( Freedom is not free, never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: sukhoi-30mki

“All-Chinese jets to serve on nation’s first carrier “

Title makes it sound like EVERY ONE of China’s jets are on this one ship.


3 posted on 09/28/2012 6:59:16 AM PDT by ConservativeChris (I feel like Marvin Boggs!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Hope they build a lot of them (J-31s), they will need them. As a former USN Carrier Aviator, carrier flight ops are easier said than done. The former Soviet Carrier is not a large deck, and one can only learn so much from watching film.

Hope they have a bottomless supply of pilots as well, they will likely lose a few in the process of building this capability.


4 posted on 09/28/2012 6:59:16 AM PDT by Cliff Dweller (No such thing as a threat... just targets)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Liaoning would have about 40 fixed-wing aircraft on board.

Enough for ONE night of CarQuals if I remember how poorly the Chinese fly at night. And I do since I instructed their grandsons many year ago.

5 posted on 09/28/2012 7:02:19 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Cliff Dweller

Meant J-15 - Not J-31, that photo leads me to believe it wasn’t designed as a carrier based plane, that will pose some dificulties. The carrier environment (takeoffs/landings) require more than your average airframe.


6 posted on 09/28/2012 7:03:19 AM PDT by Cliff Dweller (No such thing as a threat... just targets)
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To: Don Corleone

Grandsons=Grandfathers. ooops


7 posted on 09/28/2012 7:03:20 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Jeff Head

If they are all-Chinese made, then they won’t last long.............but they’ll be cheap..................


8 posted on 09/28/2012 7:03:54 AM PDT by Red Badger (Is it just me, or is Hillary! starting to look like Benjamin Franklin?.................)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

It will eventually utilize these planes.
Sometime in the future.
The distant future.


9 posted on 09/28/2012 7:05:20 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: Jeff Head

Stealing someone’s design is like stealing computer code. You know what it does but not why and how it does it. You are constantly reacting to the unexpected. If something doesn’t work as expected, you have no idea if the design is wrong or you copied it wrongly.


10 posted on 09/28/2012 7:09:18 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

‘Made in China’..
If they are anything like the stuff I’ve bought made there, get’m in a tight turn.


11 posted on 09/28/2012 7:14:27 AM PDT by Vinnie (A)
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To: TigersEye

Pei Ping.


12 posted on 09/28/2012 7:14:44 AM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

The F-18 has 2 engines anyways


13 posted on 09/28/2012 7:16:03 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: ConservativeChris

That would be one very big carrier


14 posted on 09/28/2012 7:17:39 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

I hope the Liaoning has a Forrestal accident. Then we can rename it “Xippo”.


15 posted on 09/28/2012 7:17:54 AM PDT by NeverForgetBataan (I am become Barry... destroyer of wealth)
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To: ConservativeChris
Something like this...?


16 posted on 09/28/2012 7:19:12 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Jeff Head

17 posted on 09/28/2012 7:22:20 AM PDT by kronos77 (Kosovo is Serbian Jerusalem. No Serbia without Kosovo.)
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To: Cliff Dweller

Meant J-15 - Not J-31, that photo leads me to believe it wasn’t designed as a carrier based plane, that will pose some dificulties. The carrier environment (takeoffs/landings) requires more than your average airframe.


18 posted on 09/28/2012 7:24:00 AM PDT by Cliff Dweller (No such thing as a threat... just targets)
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To: Cliff Dweller

Meant J-15 - Not J-31, that photo leads me to believe it wasn’t designed as a carrier based plane, that will pose some dificulties. The carrier environment (takeoffs/landings) requires more than your average airframe.


19 posted on 09/28/2012 7:24:13 AM PDT by Cliff Dweller (No such thing as a threat... just targets)
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To: AppyPappy

After they learn how to land on a carrier deck.


20 posted on 09/28/2012 7:24:52 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (In the game of life, there are no betting limits)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Get the popcorn and beer ready! It took the U.S. — we invented aviation and carrier aviation — years just to launch and recover 2,000 pound biplanes at sea. It took us 30 years to be ready for WW II carrier aviation with prop planes. It took us 40 years to be able to handle jet aircraft. It took us 100 years to be able to field CVN-68s and F-18s. And the Chinese think they will be able to field a meaningful carrier aviation force with today’s aircraft from scratch? LOL! LOL!


21 posted on 09/28/2012 7:35:42 AM PDT by pabianice (washington, dc ..)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Will their landing area be sideways? ;~)


22 posted on 09/28/2012 7:36:19 AM PDT by twister881
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To: pabianice

We did a lot for carrier aviation and are now the preeminent nation in that area. However, the Brits had a lot to do with getting it started; they actually were first to try it and, for a time, were ahead of us in a number of innovations.


23 posted on 09/28/2012 7:38:56 AM PDT by twister881
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To: GeronL
The F-18 has 2 engines anyways

That was my first thought; I think the one engine comment was aimed at the F-35.
24 posted on 09/28/2012 7:42:40 AM PDT by verum ago (Note to self: check the date, stupid!)
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To: pabianice

Reverse Engineering something is far simpler than building something for the first time.. someone else has already done all the hard work.

China will have its problems, but they aren’t having to overcome all the hurdles inventing the technology and skills in the first place did.


25 posted on 09/28/2012 7:43:17 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: verum ago

Yes, I think so too

At least it has some stealth though


26 posted on 09/28/2012 7:44:35 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

One order of sizzling happy People’s Liberation Army Navy Air Corps, coming right up.

Don’t know why we’d bother fighting this carrier unit in the future; after our guys eat it up they’ll just end up hungry for more again in a couple hours.


27 posted on 09/28/2012 7:45:07 AM PDT by verum ago (Note to self: check the date, stupid!)
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To: GeronL

Is that a MOSQUE? (the yellow thing, to the left of the flag at the bottom) JK


28 posted on 09/28/2012 7:47:04 AM PDT by ConservativeChris (I feel like Marvin Boggs!)
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To: twister881

WSJ had an article about the new Chinese carrier. It was “dedicated” recently but it will take years to prepare it for duty and more years for pilot training.


29 posted on 09/28/2012 7:52:05 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (In the game of life, there are no betting limits)
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To: kronos77

Yup, that’s the “J-31” prototype. Or the “J-21” one. Both designations have been used, at least in the press, creating some confusion as to whether there is one plane mistakenly being called two different things, or two different planes entirely (where the plane you posted the pic of is the J-21 and the J-31 is still rumor).

PLUS the question of how the J-21/J-31 relate to the J-20 stealth aircraft that has been well documented.


30 posted on 09/28/2012 7:55:21 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
As a (former) carrier aviator, I'm going to enjoy the intel reports on the attempts by the Gomers to master flight operations. Wish we could see their PLAT tapes, if they have any, and hear their comms: “RAVE-OFF, RAVE-OFF!”...Splat!
31 posted on 09/28/2012 7:56:29 AM PDT by twister881
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To: twister881
"As a (former) carrier aviator, I'm going to enjoy the intel reports on the attempts by the Gomers to master flight operations. Wish we could see their PLAT tapes, if they have any, and hear their comms: “RAVE-OFF, RAVE-OFF!”...Splat! "

I almost spilled my coffee on my laptop laughing at that... however it is so true.

32 posted on 09/28/2012 8:23:24 AM PDT by The Great RJ
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To: sukhoi-30mki

“However, the J-15 will be more competitive in future when the Chinese jet is equipped with made-in-China engines because the US jet has only a single engine,” he said.

Since when?someone either is blind or just doesn’t know how to count because the last time I looked the f-18 had two engines.

The other funny thing about the artical was when they mention that the j-15 will improve when they get different engines. It’s not the engines that are important it’s the thrust they put out.


33 posted on 09/28/2012 8:34:41 AM PDT by puppypusher (The World is going to the dogs.)
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To: ConservativeChris

lol.
Well, it is the Obama Navy now


34 posted on 09/28/2012 8:55:10 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Jeff Head
The firm I work for supplies advanced antennas and systems for US military aircraft. There is much more to a fighter than the airframe and power plant. The Chinese are not our equal in any arena of aircraft production, and the idea of a fully integrated system in their aircraft any time soon is laughable.

Even though our traitorous 'State' Department gives our enemies advanced technology, unless one understands system level thinking, the only thing the Chinese will produce are targets.

This is not to discount the advances that can be made using US Government Cliff Notes. When Hughes Aerospace and Ron Brown (Commerce) gave away MIRV technology to the Chinese, they leap-frogged 40 years of experience and made the Chinese missiles a threat.

But vastly simpler missiles are not front line fighter aircraft.

The other thing we have going for us is that the Chinese are utterly corrupt. Besides copying designs from everyone, they counterfeit everything. They fake EVERYTHING. To meet PLA schedules I can envision sub-standard titanium/aluminum being used in critical stress areas (their supply chain will fake testing and certify it 'good')

I would not want to be Colonel Yang doing the maiden takeoff and landing on their refurbished Ukrainian carrier.

Even IF the Chinese manage to build a solid plane, it's got to be able to detect enemies without giving itself away, acquire the target without giving itself away and give and receive good intel without giving itself away. And they need the whole system including AWACS-type platforms.(All requiring world-class antennas and electronics the Chinese will have to develop.)

Not to discount their determination, or the Kenyan's ability to sell us out, but the Chinese can't steal everything. They will have to earn the top slot.

35 posted on 09/28/2012 11:04:32 AM PDT by JOAT
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To: Cliff Dweller
The former Soviet Carrier is not a large deck

Unless you want to quibble over a few percent, you are wrong about that


36 posted on 09/28/2012 12:17:48 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Monarchy is the one system of government where power is exercised for the good of all - Aristotle)
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To: Oztrich Boy

Yep, the deck is large enough. The problems are huge Sukhoi aircraft and a lack of catapults.


37 posted on 09/28/2012 1:33:23 PM PDT by cunning_fish (.)
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To: AppyPappy
Yes...but in this case they had the SU-27s purchased from Russia that they have operated for years, and the kits with which they made the J-11s which they have also operated for years.

The diferences were in the beefed up langind gear and the tail hook, along with the forward stabilators which they have already mastered with their six prototypes.

IOW, they already know pretty much how to fly them...but not from carriers and that is where there learning curve is about to begin. And, like America, they are going to lose some aorcraft and pilots in the learing.

38 posted on 09/28/2012 9:48:00 PM PDT by Jeff Head ( Freedom is not free, never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: AppyPappy
Yes...but in this case they had the SU-27s purchased from Russia that they have operated for years, and the kits with which they made the J-11s which they have also operated for years.

The diferences were in the beefed up landing gear and the tail hook, along with the forward stabilators which they have already mastered with their six prototypes.

IOW, they already know pretty much how to fly them...but not from carriers and that is where there learning curve is about to begin. And, like America, they are going to lose some aorcraft and pilots in the learing.

39 posted on 09/28/2012 9:48:14 PM PDT by Jeff Head ( Freedom is not free, never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: kronos77

Oh...I believe they have a demonstratr, like the J-20 too...which is flying quite regularly and which they have two of...but I do not believe it is a prototype stage yet, much less ready for production.


40 posted on 09/28/2012 9:55:09 PM PDT by Jeff Head ( Freedom is not free, never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Jeff Head

I would not be too sure to dismiss this threat. The Chinese appear to have stealth bomber and fighter variants that will probably be ready to go sooner than later.


41 posted on 09/28/2012 9:59:21 PM PDT by Monty22002
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To: JOAT
No doubt they are in for a rough ride learning carrier ops. As did we. From 1949 to the 1988 (a period of 40 years) the US Navy and US Marines lost thousands of aircraft and thousands of personnel to mishaps of all types with jets, helos, trainers, and cargo or other aircraft on carriers, or large deck amphibious assault vessels (which are essentially aircraft carriers themselves). In 1954 alone the Navy/Marine Corps accident rate was almost fifty-five major mishaps per hundred thousand flight hours, meaning that 776 aircraft and 535 aviators were lost in that year alone.

Now, th Chinese will benefit somewhat from our lessons, they will learn a few things from our own experiences and the published accounts of them. For example, they do not have to develop and angeld deck, optical landing systems, automated landing systems, color coded deck operations, etc. And they are studying everything we have written and documebnts (and we have open sourced a lot) about operations.

But their J-15 is a decent design. They have modernized the SU-33 and I believe even added an ASEA radar. They just haven't produced but six prototypes so far.

But they are producing decent J-11Bs now, and they may have solved their long standing indegenous engine problem. We shall see. They have literally hundreds and hundreds of SU-27s, SU-30s, J-11s, and now J-11Bs and train regularly wioth them because they have the finds...most of which are coming courtesy of us.

As to AWACS, they have them, purchased and them built foremr Russian designs (again) and in some numbers.


42 posted on 09/28/2012 10:18:43 PM PDT by Jeff Head ( Freedom is not free, never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Oztrich Boy
I would pay to see a video of an attempt to launch both planes in the drawing sitting on the foredeck of the Varyag.
43 posted on 09/28/2012 10:19:16 PM PDT by SledgeCS (I will vote for Obama when he admits that his idea of a transparency means "You cannot see it")
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To: Jeff Head
The J-31, Shenyang F-60 looks like the love child of an F-35 and Pak-FA or a CAD composite thereof.
44 posted on 10/17/2012 2:10:39 PM PDT by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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