Posted on 10/13/2012 1:53:44 PM PDT by Timber Rattler
This is the most stunning and forceful letter I have read from the Afghanistan war. It was written in 2010 from Afghanistan by Colonel Harry Tunnell, the Brigade Commander of 5/2 Stryker Brigade Combat Team.
After this letter, Colonel Tunnell was investigated and the normal smear campaign unfolded. Having been embedded with his Brigade in 2010, it became obvious that they were put into a no-win situation, with troops spread over several provinces in Afghanistan.
(Excerpt) Read more at michaelyon-online.com ...
11years......2000 dead Soldiers.......11 years.......billions of taxpayer dollars....Where is our victory? We can’t beat a bunch of goat herders in 11 years? I can respect someone’s service and disagree with their thinking. We’ve been 11 years in Afghanistan with no victory in sight. Please argue with me and show how that is success. This Colonel is somehow bad because he trained his Soldiers too hard? So now victory is defined by how happy the troops are? Bullshit. Creighton Abrams was also viewed as being too hard on his troops in WWII. The troops thanked him after the war. There’s a bad case of groupthink going on in the Army and it has got to stop. These goat herders can’t do much to us in the states, but we have other enemies who look at us floundering around in Afghanistan and maybe that emboldens them. The first thing a Soldier is taught is obedience. The first thing an American is taught is to question authority to make sure things are done right. 11 years in Afghanistan......2000 dead Soldiers.......billions of dollars of hard-earned US taxpayer money......for what? So admirals and generals can draw a good retirement? No Sir. There needs to be some good old-fashioned boots put up people’s asses for this. Nelson told his subordinates that they could never go wrong if they placed their ship beside the enemy to fight it out. If this Colonel focused on going after the enemy, then he should be a General.
Such asinine statements vastly oversimplify the situation. You've already shown yourself to be completely ignorant of the situation on the ground over there.
Creighton Abrams was also viewed as being too hard on his troops in WWII. The troops thanked him after the war.
Good for Abrams. If this was WWII, then that would mean something.
Nelson told his subordinates that they could never go wrong if they placed their ship beside the enemy to fight it out.
You insist on making these conventional war similes. Why?
Whatever REMF.
You are trying to change the argument. I distinctly said that his letter contains many valid points. Don’t look to me to defend our political approach to the war in Afghanistan. Within the context of the political approach to our wars of the past 10 years, the Stryker Brigades have been a shining example of success. In my view, the Stryker vehicle was but a small part of this success. Their training, organization, and leadership stood out in comparison with other units. Except for this brigade. It was dysfunctional and it had to do with the command climate issues that all pointed by to Tunnell. Did you know Creighton Abrams? I did. I believe that Abrams would have relieved Tunnell and it would have had nothing to do with how hard they trained.
11 years......2000 dead Soldiers.....billions of hard-earned taxpayer dollars for nothing. Nothing. Would you pay garbagemen who couldn’t haul off garbage in 11 years? Why are we paying admirals and generals who can’t win in 11 years? I think that we have some wonderful Enlisted Men and young Officers. Too many of them are in cold graves. If these admirals and generals can’t win, then they need to get the hell out. These admirals and generals are using their subordinate’s respect for rank to cover up their incompetence. If you knew Abe Abrams, then what would he have said about fighting for 11 years with no victory. What would MG Shirley Wood have said about it? I’m no peacenik. But I love our Soldiers and this war is dicked up. The Army is not some club started to build collegiality. It’s here to fight and win our wars. 11 years. 11 years.
11 years......2000 dead Soldiers.......billions of hard-earned taxpayer dollars spent.......for what? Let me give you the straight shit .....the Army exists to fight and win our wars. Are we winning? Do we have victory after 11 years of fighting? You can build all the schools you want to in Afghanistan and what is taught when they blow up? That the enemy can blow them up. That’s what’s taught. Why do I bring up conventional wars? 11 years.....2000 dead Soldiers.....billions of hard-earned taxpayer dollars spent that could have been used elsewhere. We’ve tried the SOF stuff and it hasn’t worked. God bless our SOF warriors, but it’s time to do something else. Our performance in Afghanistan emboldens our enemies. You show me those Afghan people hanging Taliban heads at the front of their villages, and then I’ll think we’re winning. 11 years.....11 years.
Correction: Quite a few not very bright freepers think that the search function sucks balls(sic). The search engine helps locate articles that one doesn't know exists provided your IQ is greater than room temperature.
One toggle of the post button is enough.
I really have no idea what you’re trying to say here. We never should have attacked Afghanistan? We should have pursued a policy of annihilation in Afghanistan?
I tell you what, let’s make this more akin to reality instead of pseudo-intellectual ramblings. Let’s make you a light infantry Battalion Commander and give you part of a city (I won’t even give you a massive, spread out, mountainous rural area). Let’s say southern Kandahar. Now, what do you do to fight and win the war?
We’re behind 3 to 0 and the two minute warning just sounded. This one is going to go into the record books as a loss unless somebody picks up the ball. Two thousand Soldiers have died. Did they die for a loss? Goddamn, this fighting and killing and dieing is a hard thing. It can really affect a career. It ended 2000 Soldier’s lives. The Army and this country are trying to cruise through this war. This is not acceptable. We need people who can build units that will fight, win and survive. If our admirals and generals can’t do that then maybe they should get out and sell life insurance. Somebody has got to get pissed off! Everybody has got to get pissed off! 2000 dead and we’re going to lose? Find a way to win! I don’t care about excuses. Win!
I’m beginning to suspect that he wasn’t with us when we hit Macho Grando and lost the entire squadron. We just shouldn’t have come in from the north, at 1800.
Zachary Taylor said it best: remember the “Old Guard” of the Army..
I’ll never forget that bombing raid at Daiquiri. But at least we won one for the Zipper.
I’m just an old female and not an expert on any of this. An old ex-cop that knows you shoot the damned enemy, trounce them into the grand and get rid of their sorry ass, or haul them off to jail. Frankly I think the fact that there are the many in our current military in high and low positions that suck too many balls...and that went in to get their GI bill and and just have a job.
When your military is being used for political purposes instead of getting a job done...it becomes a perverted mess, just like any other part of the monster that has become our federal government. Send our soldier to do a job, get the job done, and bring them home! And stop pussy footing around with people that aren’t worth trying to save!!! Replacing Islam with Islam does nothing but begat the same damned thing! Barbarianism! Let them kill each other off!!! Get out of their way!
When Ryan was talking about Afhanistan at the debate, wished he would have mentioned ROE under Obama and watch Biden eat a crap sandwich....
Thank you.
What do you suggest? Forced conversion to Christianity? Brainwashing classes about Jeffersonian democracy? Or just simple annihilation?
As usual, the problem and the answer are vastly more complex than the keyboard commandos would have us believe.
I realize that you say you have more knowledge of the real situation, than most of us do. But the facts are that as I see it you are the one being the keyboard commando.
Tell me, sir, for what purpose are we in Afghanistan now, training the next round of terrorists on the taxpayer dollar? How is that a win/win situation for Americans? Our soldiers aren’t even allowed to shoot back and they’re dying like turkeys in a turkey shoot over there. What kind of sense is that making to the grand dames running the Pentagon? Since you’re so much more knowledgeable than I am?
Uh-huh. Your opinion is duly noted.
Tell me, sir, for what purpose are we in Afghanistan now, training the next round of terrorists on the taxpayer dollar?
Couldn't tell you. Mission creep has set in, as has the inevitable clusterf*ck of managing a NATO operation. Iraq was multinational-in-name-only (apart from the Brits). In Afghanistan, NATO is king, and it's a PITA to deal with. I can't imagine how we ever planned to halt the Soviet hordes with it.
How is that a win/win situation for Americans?
When you kill them there, they don't come over here. Small comfort, but there it is.
Our soldiers aren’t even allowed to shoot back and they’re dying like turkeys in a turkey shoot over there.
Bullshit on both counts. Your lack of tactical knowledge definitely gives you away here.
What kind of sense is that making to the grand dames running the Pentagon?
True believers and career-protectors alike have a vested interest in fighting it out over there, but in the end it will be futile for a variety of reasons.
“Couldn’t tell you. Mission creep has set in...” Okie dokie, sure, clear as mud...
“When you kill them there, they don’t come over here. Small comfort, but there it is...” Okie dokie, but we’re training them, not killing them.
“Bullshit on both counts. Your lack of tactical knowledge definitely gives you away here.” Okie dokie, I guess those body bags coming back to the US abut 9 at the time, are just plastic bags fulla garbage?
“True believers and career-protectors alike have a vested interest in fighting it out over there, but in the end it will be futile for a variety of reasons.” Okie dokie, but that was rather the point I was making myself. Somehow I didn’t make it clear enough, I guess.
Thanks for your response, it cleared every thing up so marvelously. Rock on.
I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you. Your attempts to belittle anything I say with flippant language has about the same effect as Biden had on Ryan.
If you truly possess the ability to walk into a village or city and instantly determine who we need to kill, then you need to sign up immediately—we could use you.
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