Posted on 11/21/2012 10:37:47 AM PST by blam
Those who study the Constitution and its history can probably tell you that the states have never delegated to Congress the specific power to tax and spend for retirement and healthcare purposes. In other words, given that Section 8 of Article I of the Constitution says nothing about SS and healthcare, the 10th Amendment clarifies that such issues are automatically and uniquely state power issues.
In fact, the only reason that FDR's activist justices got away with approving SS and other constitutionally indefensible federal New Deal taxing and spending programs inspried by constituton-ignoring FDR is because of widespread ignorance of the Constitution.
If your house is in a non-sECEding state,
your house will be worthless anyway.
Nope.
Anything the feds want to do is de facto constitutional if anyone involved can imagine/invent even the most tenuous link to Interstate Commerce.
The Interstate Commerce Clause is the dagger by which liberal justices have offered the United States of America as blood sacrifice to the false gods of power.
In blam's case, I know he is sophisticated enough to understand what I am after here.
This is an issue on which I have some continuing professional involvement. But in order to pursue it effectively, we need some evidence of current activity on the part of the Liberals--we don't have that.
The hearing referenced occurred some time ago--before the last adjournment. And it wasn't really much of a live hearing--it was a submission of written testimony by interested parties. I did not then (nor did anyone else) see the fingerprints of the Administration on the effort.
As to the policy argument, the people making the fairness argument are the extreme fringe of the Liberal community. Dr. Jim McDermott, member of Congress from Washington state has had a bill in both of the last sessions (McDermott is in fact a member of the extreme left wing fringe but the philosophical argument is not why he has the bill in).
At some point, it is conceivable that the Liberals might mount an effective effort to appropriate the assets in the tax shelter retirement plans (IRA; 401plans; etc.) but no such effort is apparent from anything that is in process at present. Such an effort, if it materialized, would be to reach the asset value to support the federal budget.
If there were any kind of credible effort on the part of the Liberals to support legislation, the professional tax community would respond. Such an effort is not presently apparent. So if you, Blam, or anyone else has any evidence of such an effort, please tell me where to find it--feel free to PM me or post it.
This is one issue I have the ability to do something about but it takes something more than a bunch of press releases by these Liberal Interest groups to construct a real threat.
I read there is $17T of retirement savings, pensions and other assets.
So the government just prints $17T. Done.
They’ve done essentially the same thing as steal your money, but they can blame the ensuing inflation on “greedy big business” and “the rich”.
It’s too easy to print, and nationalizing retirement accounts risks the guillotine.
They like the idea of taking your retirement money a bit better because they can punish “rich people” more directly, but in the end, they’ll value their lives (which would be at substantial risk) more than “other peoples money” and will simply print any amount they wish to pursue whatever socialist policies they want.
The outrage should be the same, but for some reason, it won’t be.
Why wouldn’t I just cash out now, take the huge penalty and go on a nice long vacation? After all, if the gubmint is going to steal it, what difference does it make?
Borrow as much as you can on your 401K and stash it. They take repayments out of your future contributions, so at least you'll have something. Whenever you can, borrow more and keep borrowing so the least amount is at risk.
Forget paying the penalties—or the taxes on your 401k. Just quit your job, setup an IRA outside the former employer, roll your 401k into your IRA and withdraw the money in “substantially equal payments” (an annuity) spread over 1 or more tax years. Mortgage all your assets to the hilt and bury the money where no one can find it. Don’t file your tax returns until the IRS comes knockin’ then don’t pay the taxes. They won’t be able to collect because all your assets are mortgaged. If just 10 million or so do this we’d break the beast’s back. Of course we might not like what rushes in to fill the void, but that’s another story.
To be fair oldies have, thanks to the fact that they are the voting bloc that most reliably votes, for decades rerouted the wealth if the working youth (or relative youth) into their pockets. It’s probably out of proportion to the perennial tax on savings, and certainly won’t stand with taxes to come given the hole we’re digging. Since oldies are statistically the richest group they will be hit, oh yes. I’m only saying thine hands are unclean.
“I converted all to what is essentially a cash fund...I don’t see a reasoning to have my retirement funds in the market any longer”
You may lose your shirt speculating on stocks, etc. You WILL lose saving in cash. Look who controls the money supply.
“I’ll fight to the death before they steal my retirement”
No one fought to the death to stop the Federal Reserve Act or SS, let alone the myriad other taxes that take away from your golden years. It rings false to imagine people dying for something as prosaic as 401ks, especially when they can get your money anyway.
I am selling all of my equities due to capital gains and dividend tax rate increases for next year, and I’m looking at a GIUL, it offers many advantages and is unlikely to get raided by the feds.
You don’t think they’ll squeeze property owners as well as retirement accounts? States are going bankrupt faster than fedguv, given their lack of central banks. They’ll raise consumption and vat taxes, surely, but the most popular target is always “unearned” income. I wouldn’t be surprised if “Progress and Poverty” suddenly gets assigned in schools again.
Failing that there’s eminent domain.
Stop it man. Your killin' me.
Stop it man. Your killin' me.
“receive unemployment...That essentially verifies you’re out if service”
What is the State’s obsession with unemployment welfare equaling unemployment? Okay, it’s the most “officia” indicator. But I’ve been unemployed several times ad never taken welfare.Does that mean it was all a dream.
That time we warned them “Don’t make us come back armed”.
I my book, you only get warned once.
“The only reason that FDR’s activist justices got away with...”
Actually, it wasn’t FDR’s fellas but the “switch in time that saved nine” which finally sunk the republic. The Civil War obviously remived the states’ as a legitimate threats, and anyway peogressives had infiltrated them, too. Congress and the presidency went black for good in 32, if not before, with heavy precedent from the two previous big wars.
The so-called “four horsemen” plus here and there the two miderates held strong through the early New Deal by striking down the AAA, NIRA, etc. They weren’t uniformly strong, however, and did sin in the Gold Clause cases, Home Building and Loan Association, etc. But to ask a orogressive tgey were all but “economic dictators” preventing government from doing anything to control the anarchy (such wild altrrnations of tyranny and negligence are common to the addled brains of leftism). Then one of them died and one of the centrists flopped to the New Deal side. And the flood followed.
I’ve yet to hear adequate explanation. History had it that they were cowed by FDR ‘s court-packing scheme. But that had already failed. Whatever the reason it gave us such horrors as Helvering, Wickard, Carolene Products, Penn Central Station, Korematsu, etc.
We love beating up on SCOTUS, and with good reason. Just remember that however bad it’s gotten they were the last castle to fall.
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