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Gold Confiscation Not A Possibility by Jim Sinclair
jsmineset. ^ | November 24, 2012, at 2:24 am | by Jim Sinclair

Posted on 11/24/2012 2:00:55 PM PST by dennisw

Gold Confiscation Not A Possibility

Hi Jim,

I know you receive tons of emails, so I will get right down to the core of my question. In a note on kingworldnews.com today Richard Russell wrote:

“At any rate, I’m personally torn between putting all my assets into bullion gold coins or leaving half in gold and half of my assets in US dollars. In their demand to making Fed notes the only legal tender money, I believe the Fed (and the government) would stoop to any trick or law or machination to ensure that Americans must accept Fed notes as the only legal tender money. The government (Congress?) could pass a law outlawing any transactions in gold or silver or any precious metal.  The government could halt the trading of gold or gold ETFs.  Or there might be a dozen tricks that the government could use that would outlaw the use of gold as legal tender. Then, there are always taxes as a barrier to even owning or trading gold. So I dunno, hold all your assets in gold bullion coins?  Frankly, I’m afraid to.  The bankers demand that I use their rotten fiat notes as money, and believe me, the bankers (the Fed) run the country.”

What is your take on this possibility Jim? Do you think we would see warning signs before TPTB does anything on that? If you have already treated this issue in a previous post, please excuse me and feel free to forget about this email. Thanks for all you do so generously for all of us sheeple.

CIGA Michel

 

 

Dear Michel,

My respect for Richard Russell could not be higher. I will speak to this generically while recognizing "Richard the Good" stands along with "Dean Harry Schultz" as the only true two icons of gold. All others are but pretenders to the golden throne for some personal profit motive. Anyone seeking to dim another’s candle that theirs might shine brighter are as sociopathic as the banksters in our crowd for what they can get.

There was much to be gained by gold confiscation in the 1930s because we were on a gold standard. Without taking you into complicated explanations, please accept the true fact that gold in the 1930s was the only instruments of QE. It is not now nor will it be again in the future. There may be more to gain by a significant price of gold in the new reserve currency. There is no reason except some sort of fear of revenge to consider confiscation of gold, gold shares or the gold ETFs now. Those that worry so much about this do not really understand what gold was under a gold standard.

Why was energy not confiscated at $145 crude? Why not confiscate Apple at $750? Confiscation is NOT going to occur, nor will the gold bullion or gold share profits be confiscated via punitive taxation. It serves no monetary purpose and just might injure the efforts for a new reserve currency that is sure to come.

Respectfully,
Jim



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: gold; goldconfiscation; jimsinclair
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1 posted on 11/24/2012 2:01:05 PM PST by dennisw
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To: dennisw

If they try to take your gold, just give them some lead instead.


2 posted on 11/24/2012 2:04:42 PM PST by Drill Thrawl (We have crossed the line from independence & liberty to dependency & servitude. We are doomed)
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To: dennisw

There was much to be gained by gold confiscation in the 1930s because we were on a gold standard
It will not be taken for that reason it will be stolen for thier own use.


3 posted on 11/24/2012 2:05:22 PM PST by ronnie raygun (bb)
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To: dennisw

CIGA


4 posted on 11/24/2012 2:06:26 PM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: dennisw

I have found this website to be a very useful source of information on the economy, gold, and silver.

http://goldismoney.info/forums/


5 posted on 11/24/2012 2:08:27 PM PST by Silver Sabre
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To: dennisw
When someone tells me that 'such and such just can't happen', I tend to grab my wallet and reach for my weapon, because here it comes.

/johnny

6 posted on 11/24/2012 2:09:46 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: ronnie raygun

That’s right. The left will not be able to stand people who are not under their control when the SHTH. Imagine their horror when they realize that there are people who do not come to the food lines to beg for food, water, etc. but rather are self-sufficient because they prepared.


7 posted on 11/24/2012 2:10:30 PM PST by rcofdayton
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To: dennisw

If they had stayed on the gold standard in the 30’s, it would have soon become apparent that the FRN’s were being printed far faster than any new gold coin issues.

Thus, the FRN’s would have been in competition with gold - and the FRN’s would have become valueless compared to gold coin.

That’s why it was seized.

So they could print as many FRN’s as they wanted.

And that why the gold “window” was eventually slammed shut, because there was so much paper money out there, there wasn’t enough gold (at the government set price) at that time to back it.

Now, gold is no longer money, and the amount in private hands is a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the money “supply”.
There would be little for confiscation to accomplish, it would generate more ill will and anti-government sentiment than it would be worth.


8 posted on 11/24/2012 2:13:23 PM PST by djf (Conservative values help the poor. Liberal values help them STAY poor!!!)
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To: dennisw

I chose lead & brass over gold & silver.

“If you can’t protect it, you don’t own it.”


9 posted on 11/24/2012 2:15:20 PM PST by carriage_hill (America - a great idea while it lasted.)
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To: dennisw
I totally disagree.

So does this guy:

The economic collapse of America will trigger the confiscation of Gold and maybe silver. The US government is borrowing more than what they can produce economically and they are out of cash and have to borrow more money they do not have from China or other countries to support the war on terror, healthcare, and etc. The value of the dollar is dropping, but the only reason why the basic fundamentals of the dollar is not taking place is the economic chaos in Euro which is causing all the investors go to another safe haven with is the US treasury. What China and Russia and other East continents are doing is trading on another currency besides the dollar. China and Russia is trading oil with Gold and silver because China does not like the fact the value of the dollar is going down. China also wants to move away from the Dollar and is telling other countries like IMF, Global Banks, and other developing nations to get out of the dollar. The IMF already has a currency called the Special Drawing Right. This is the currency that other nations, especially China, are being pushed for a global currency. The currency for now is being pushed to be backed by a pool of world currencies such as Euro, Yen, Sterling, and dollar. But once the economic collapse of America called the dollar is no longer trusted they are going to try to back the SDR with Gold and Silver. Once this event takes a place a scenario of what will happen is that all the gold will be confiscated at a high gold price around a wide range of $2000 ~ 3000 per ounce. That will be a good enough reason for the government to confiscate it. The words that will be used by Obama is to help build America together, sharing the pain together, or we are all in this together motto. Once the gold has been confiscated the price of gold will shot up x5 to x10 fold because if the supply is reduced the demand (price) will go up. The gold will go to the Federal Reserve and they will back the new currency, probably SDR or something else before SDR) with the price of gold multiplied by x5 or x10. The American people will be trading their gold for an old currency, the dollar, and then after they give that worthless paper out the Feds will print the new currency with the backing of gold.

The fact that we are not on the gold standard, and the fact that gold, silver, and commodities will be the few assets with tangible, real value when the global currencies collapse (and they will) make gold confiscation an almost certainty.

If you have gold in a safe deposit box at a bank, the banks will simply refuse you access and then hand them over the government (who will gladly pay you pennies on ounce of the soon to be useless dollar).

The confiscation does not even have to be law! It simply has to be an "Executive Order" ordered by bath house Barry. FDR did the exact same thing, and he did so without Congress.


10 posted on 11/24/2012 2:16:23 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: rcofdayton
There are freepers with that attitude.

/johnny

11 posted on 11/24/2012 2:16:40 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: dennisw

A government that can force you to purchase insurance is also a government that can confiscate gold.


12 posted on 11/24/2012 2:19:11 PM PST by Hoodat ("As for God, His way is perfect" - Psalm 18:30)
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To: dennisw
Hmmphh ... stupid people are flocking to voluntarily trade it in for some shit called 'cash'.

Happened in the '70's, too.

Kiosks everywhere .. We Buy Gold, Silver, School Rings ... etc.

13 posted on 11/24/2012 2:19:19 PM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: dennisw
Oh, and if you don't own physical gold, but own Exchange Traded Funds (ETFs), then you are also screwed.

Hint: if you don't own real gold, but own a piece of paper that says you are owed gold based on volume demand, then at the end of the day you will be left with a piece of paper.

14 posted on 11/24/2012 2:20:39 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: dennisw

If someone says, “It’ll never happen”, and it’s in the world of human control or manipulation, you can pretty much bank on the fact that IT WILL HAPPEN.

If only because humans by nature are contrary creatures, and some are very greedy and grasping at what others have


15 posted on 11/24/2012 2:20:45 PM PST by The Working Man
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To: dennisw

A man who has gold, silver and lead and the means to make best use of all three can deal with the threat of confiscation. A million fellows similarly situated can achieve a great deal more.


16 posted on 11/24/2012 2:22:50 PM PST by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: SkyPilot

It’s still amazing to me that men like my father obeyed such a decree. Today my only response would not be printable on a site like this one.


17 posted on 11/24/2012 2:26:34 PM PST by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: dennisw

Jim,

Respectfully, it isn’t about revenue, it’s about control.

In much the same way they continue to raise taxes even though they full well know that on this side of the Laffer curve each increase in tax rates results in a drop in revenue and a net decrease in overall wealth, they will confiscate your gold knowing full well it will hurt you and injure the efforts for any new reserve currency that might reduce their power.


18 posted on 11/24/2012 2:28:41 PM PST by null and void (America - Abducted by Aliens...)
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To: Hoodat
A government that can force you to purchase insurance is also a government that can confiscate gold.

They can gin up any law they want. Enforcing it is another matter.

19 posted on 11/24/2012 2:30:11 PM PST by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: dennisw
Jim uses poor analogies to make his point.

Technically the government didn't confiscate gold, they forced citizens to sell it to 'em at $20, waited a few years, changed the value by fiat, and sold to dealers at $35, then no longer enforced the legal prohibition and taxed the dealers on the markup income when the dealers resold the gold.

As gold is no longer a US currency standard, that can't be done now, it's just like any other private property, fair compensation must be paid and the government does not set the value of gold.

20 posted on 11/24/2012 2:31:23 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: dennisw
Gold was NOT confiscated because "gold in the 1930s was the only instruments of QE."

The "true fact{s}" of FDR's 1933 confiscation can be found in "The Bank Runs of the Early 1930s and FDR's Ban on Gold" (forbes.com) from which the following excerpt comes:

"In April 1933 FDR and his allies at the Fed and Treasury attributed widespread bank runs and failures to private “gold hoarding.” Using the “Trading With the Enemy Act” (1917) as a precedent – an act that gave the president wide latitude to restrict exchanges and seize assets during “emergencies” – FDR declared that private gold should be seized and given over to the Fed, in return for irredeemable Federal Reserve Notes, to stem an emergency in the banking system. This was sanctified in the Gold Reserve Act (January 1934), which required that any gold held contrary to U. S. law must be forfeited to the U. S. government. Key parts of the “Trading With the Enemy Act” pertaining to gold seizures persist in the U.S. Code even today."
Such bank run have recently occurred in Argentina, where citizens created the run to buy US dollars (rather than gold) and the government enacted draconian restrictions on buying and owning US dollars.

If such a bank run would occur today in the US it would not be to buy/own US dollars (since that is the currency the bank already holds it in) it would be to buy and own gold. Under such circumstance the ill founded assurances in this thread's article that 'gold would not be confiscated' should be no assurance at all.

21 posted on 11/24/2012 2:31:35 PM PST by drpix
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To: Hoodat

If you look to the past, one history lesson is France in 1720, after John Law had exploded the concept of land based credit. In the aftermath, the Froggies banned ownership of more than a trifling amount of gold to shore up their once-again worthless currency.

History repeats...


22 posted on 11/24/2012 2:36:51 PM PST by pingman (Step right up and place yer' bets!)
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To: dennisw

Ha!


23 posted on 11/24/2012 2:37:54 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: dennisw

Better bury some gold(silver) and few fire arms as well..
Better in large gauge PVC pipes.. because they be comin’...
They’re not ready for confiscation yet.. but its comin’..

Animal farm is almost here.. presently their only “MILKING”..
The slaughter houses have not begun yet..
They will not use the word “Soylent Green” they will use a different word..

The “Purges” are coming.. Stalin was the lefts Patron Saint..
Very much proof of tactics by Mao, Stalin and Hitler..
One World Givernment is a reachable dream of many Americans..

They are for making countrys mere STATEs or Provence’s..
Amazing how accurate John Birch was almost 100% correct..
Also amazing that many have never heard of John Birch...


24 posted on 11/24/2012 2:41:40 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Not to mention, when someone says something can’t happen, obviously some one has already suggested it to give them the idea to respond to it.


25 posted on 11/24/2012 2:45:27 PM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: dennisw
[physical] "Confiscation is NOT going to occur, nor will the gold bullion or gold share profits be confiscated via punitive taxation. It serves no monetary purpose and just might injure the efforts for a new reserve currency that is sure to come."

This a multi-faceted statement and I don't think the issues nor risks are as pat as Sinclair states. To parse:

1: "Confiscation is NOT going to occur" OK, I can accept that. This does NOT rule out the possibility that as of xx/yy/zz, per executive order # 12345, all openings of bank safety deposit boxes must be supervised by a Federal Marshall.

tin? Have we seen enough tin over the past few years so that we should not be surprised at redefinitons of same?

2: "..nor will the gold bullion profits [be confiscated via punitive taxation].." I do not believe this can be predicted! In fact, if you think about it, gold could be seriously DE-monetized from its quasi-monetary function by imposing severe taxes on sales of gold. Suppose the government imposed a $1000 per ounce tax on the sale of bullion and threw in some gobbledygook about Eagles and/or pre-1933 gold coins as collectibles. Let's just think about bullion: Credit Suisse or Perth Mint or APMEX or JM or Englehard bars. What then? Anyone who had (what they believed was) their gold stash in those forms would be faced with a serious issue. Let's say they bought their gold over a range of $450. - $1350. and are right now thinking they are sitting fairly pretty.

To get anything near spot price out their gold, they would have to engage in a tax-evasion transaction. But who would buy such gold anywhere market price? They, too, would be subject to the same conundrum upon sale. In other words, gold would be forced into black market status and the spot value would not be obtainable since transactions in same would be not illegal per se, but strongly implying illegal.

3: "...nor will (GLD profits) be confiscated via punitive taxation." << I can believe that, GLD is just stupid stock.

4: "It serves no monetary purpose and just might injure the efforts for a new reserve currency that is sure to come.

4: Heh. Sez you. (And I greatly respect Jim Sinclair) but neither he nor anyone else can accurately predict the future. That something today serves or does not serve any monetary purpose means utterly nothing. After all, we are probably going to be jacking tax rates to raise revenues when all prior experiences show that lowering rates is the thing that raises tax revs. But see, we do this out of "fairness". So it is not a given that "making monetary sense" will be the prevailing rule of logic or law. Maybe we're going to be forced to "play fair", but it will be the 0bama's definition of "fair".

Photobucket

26 posted on 11/24/2012 2:45:53 PM PST by Attention Surplus Disorder (This stuff we're going through now, this is nothing compared to the middle ages.)
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To: dennisw

Didn’t FDR do that at the beginning of the Depression?


27 posted on 11/24/2012 3:16:58 PM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church shows up at your funeral)
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To: muir_redwoods
The reality is that very few people did obey the FDR decree. Which is why a confiscation of any physical asset is unlikely. The reality is that high inflation and the resulting effective confiscation of everybody’s savings is the smart way to go for the feds. No need to have armed confrontations with gold bugs. Or raids on farmers. Or nationalization of oil. Just quietly remove the paper wealth until nothing is left. When they are done, the average waitress will be able to pay off the national debt on one day's tips. This is how it has been done in the past and the way it will be done in the future. It won't matter if you are a millionaire or billionaire, your savings will be effectively zeroed out. The entire Weimar meltdown experience happened in 3 months after 10 years of political wrangling. What will you do in the last 3 months to save yourself?
28 posted on 11/24/2012 3:24:06 PM PST by zagger
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To: zagger

Gold, silver and lead, for a start


29 posted on 11/24/2012 3:26:20 PM PST by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: zagger

What have you done, or what are you doing?


30 posted on 11/24/2012 3:42:52 PM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: dennisw

Anything can be confiscated.


31 posted on 11/24/2012 4:13:26 PM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: dennisw
They don't care about your gold.

Your gold only matters if it's considered "money" and competes with those green pieces of paper the Fed keeps cranking out.

FDR confiscated the gold because, in those days, there was an expectation a law that the federal government would redeem your dollars for gold at any bank window. Every time someone did, the national gold stock was depleted a tiny bit more and the Fed was supposedly constrained from printing more paper dollars because of it.

Those days are long gone. What was once "our" money [i.e., you owned money like you do your property] was socialized. FDR accomplished what he wanted.

We can own gold, now. But its ties to the nation's money have been broken.

And see where that's got us.

32 posted on 11/24/2012 4:46:24 PM PST by BfloGuy (Workers and consumers are, of course, identical.)
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To: dennisw

I’m afraid Mr. Sinclair doesn’t recognize the fact the U.S. is now run as a kleptocracy.

“...not a possibility” shows his lack of understanding of just what kind of men and women are now in control. There’s no limit to their willingness to steal what isn’t nailed down.


33 posted on 11/24/2012 4:48:37 PM PST by Dr.Zoidberg (John Winthrop's "City upon a Hill" just became a midden heap. Infested with rats and other vermin.)
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To: dennisw
Good evening.

Gold Confiscation Not A Possibility by Jim Sinclair

Sorry Jim, it's happened before, it can happen again...for different reasons.

Right now Jim, I prefer to invest in brass and lead. It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling, and a thrill up my leg.

5.56mm

34 posted on 11/24/2012 5:01:38 PM PST by M Kehoe
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To: dennisw

bttt


35 posted on 11/24/2012 5:01:44 PM PST by TEXOKIE (We must surrender only to our Holy God and never to the evil that has befallen us.)
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To: Navy Patriot

That’s not quite what happened.

Gold (an element of the Periodic Table, 79 AU) was criminalized, which is kind of bizarre. It was confiscation in the sense thatt they gave people pieces of paper in exchange. Numismatic coins having “special collector” value were exempt, and individuals were allowed to keep $100 of regular issue coins, or about five Troy ounces. They didn’t wait “a few years” to ramp up the price, though.

And plenty of people were apparently tipped off ahead of time, because of the staggering huge number of US coins that were leaving America for Europe just prior to the ban. Pre-1933 US coinage is relatively common today, because of this early bird expatriation.

FDR ran on a campaign of strict adherence to a strong dollar gold standard. Go figure.

Just as importantly, the government reneged on gold bonds, sold to help pay for the first wars of the world, stiffing the flyover rubes yet again. Another casualty were gold clause contracts, where long term financial contracts were routinely denominated in ounces of gold, because 99 year leases have no meaning when expressed in paper money. You end up renting a whole skyscraper for a few thousand dollars a month by the end of the lease.

What Roosevelt did was worse than all this, because he repudiated contract law. As far as future monkey business in this area, someone would have to make the case that the US needs to return to the gold standard, so far that has decidedly not been the case. The immediate effect would be that the US would then lose all its remaining gold. People tend to forget just why it was Mr. Nixon felt compelled to renege on that last remaining link to gold and let currencies float.

And such a move (confiscation/criminalization) would likely be counterproductive and tend to call into question any number of assumptions about the state of affairs. For one thing, “they” already stole the largest pile ever recorded in human history, some 10,000 tons, under the guise that “hoarding” is “against public policy” (though presumably, when it’s stored in one location aka Ft. Knox, that isn’t “hoarding.”

Trying to be objective as possible, I just don’t see such a move as being too shrewd and would only serve to make an already skeptical everbody even more so. I suppose they can take the normal psy-op method and brand everyone who has a coin collection a Tourist, lumped in with bitter clingers, smokers, sane individuals, etc. And offer rewards (not in gold, probably?) to turn in those Evil Speculators.

You can bet your bottom Peace Dollar all those folks in years past when gold was $262 who were almost apoplectic whenever purchasing gold was suggested will be first in line to turn in their fellow comrade. FDR had the crime punishable by a year in jail and $10,000 - about $890,000 in todays money - er, in gold.

Just remember - nobody could see this coming.


36 posted on 11/24/2012 5:02:12 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: drpix

What I recall reading, it was very common for Argentinians to have dollar denominated bank accounts. What the government did, was convert those accounts into Peso accounts. And then restrict withdrawals to a trifling amount of the trifle purchasing power it represented.

This isn’t exactly a new phenomenon, which explains the existence of overseas accounts going back centuries. From time to time, creditors say “no more” and people get left holding the bag. Just prior to WW first, thousands of tourists were left stranded on the continent or in London, because overnight their checks drawn on foreign banks were not honored anymore. In more recent decades, those holding dollars, at least outside banking circles in the parasite, er, host country, did quite well. Deutschmarks, Swiss Francs, and other currencies issued by stable governments did quite well.

Sinclair brings up a valid point - why is gold subject to such visceral anger, but not say, Yahoo stock or Muni bonds? I don’t care what other people do with their money, or at least not enough to make it a full time hobby trying to dissuade people with arguments like “it’s really heavy”. Hm.


37 posted on 11/24/2012 5:19:35 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: zagger

Weimar inflation, while it went especially nonsensical in 1923, it went went on for many years, in fits and starts, and at times even showed signs of leveling off or moderating before starting up again. It had the effect of people thinking that maybe the government had things under control. Lasted far longer than a few months.

It DID show up out of the blue e.g. “like lightning it struck... it was terrible..” As one man recounted.


38 posted on 11/24/2012 5:26:49 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: dennisw

When I hear these self proclaimed experts say “they can’t or they won’t” I mentally translate that to “they just haven’t done it yet” and take precautions!


39 posted on 11/24/2012 5:30:38 PM PST by RetiredTexasVet (The law of unintended consequences is an unforgiving and vindictive b!tch!)
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To: Attention Surplus Disorder
Your post #26 makes excellent points.

It seems to me that Jim Sinclair (whoever he is) wrote this piece as a wishful self-fulfilling prophecy. In my mind, he wrote this hoping that if he spins it enough, someone in power will read it and back off from gold confiscation in the near future.

I am guessing Sinclair owns some gold, or he owns some pieces of paper that says he owns real gold stashed somewhere by somebody that he hopes to trades for real gold someday. He wrote that confiscation will "never happen" in order to plant the seed to the powers that be to leave his gold alone.

In this case: Fail.


40 posted on 11/24/2012 5:55:56 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: Freedom4US

The final Weimar hyperinflation lasted only a few months after years of up and down inflation and economic screwing around. The final and famous smashup lasted only three months or so. You can look at charts or you can read “When Money Dies”. You call 1923 “nonsensical” but it was the realization by the population that they were truly screwed that created the famous scenes with which we are all familiar. It made perfect sense for the people at the time.

Weimar history has years of dithering about followed by sudden realization and panic. It was not slow and people did not have time to do anything. What have you done?


41 posted on 11/24/2012 6:28:07 PM PST by zagger
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To: zagger

Oh, I get it - the FINAL, final hyperinflatiion only lasted a few months, after years of hyperinflation.

After all, I could have looked at a chart??? DANG! Why didn’t I THINK of that . Sheesh. It’s all so clear to me now, when I knew nothing about it before. I bow to your superior wisdom and understanding, etc. Begging your forgiveness...


42 posted on 11/24/2012 6:52:36 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: Freedom4US
Excellent and accurate, I didn't want to go into all that detail. This just about sums up the point I was trying to get across:

What Roosevelt did was worse than all this, because he repudiated contract law. As far as future monkey business in this area, someone would have to make the case that the US needs to return to the gold standard, so far that has decidedly not been the case. The immediate effect would be that the US would then lose all its remaining gold. People tend to forget just why it was Mr. Nixon felt compelled to renege on that last remaining link to gold and let currencies float.

The rule of law is so far gone in the US now that criminality is defined by political affiliation, if gold is criminalized again it will be OK for rich Democrats to flaunt tons of ingots, but a Republican will get life for his wedding ring.

It won't be long before everybody figures out who the criminals really are, that always happens in every Communist dictatorship.

43 posted on 11/24/2012 7:13:11 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: SkyPilot

Perhaps - there may be a bit of that. The flip side to that argument I’ve noticed for some years now, I wonder if those who talk about confiscation don’t at least unconsciously want it to be so. It’s an extension of the rabid anti-gold folks - gold was ignored or derided for many years, and its adherents derided as cranks. Now that’s fine, everyone has their opinion, and they’re welcome to it.

But the People Who Really Hate Gold always seemed.. a bit more driven somehow, more motivated. The classic, really, is this nutcase on the Marketwatch comment boards who for several years derided “goldbugs” constantly, saying it was overpriced and due for a crash. Maybe. But kept at it when gold was $400... $500.. $600... My point is, nobody takes time out of their day every day to jump on some stock discussion board and start nagging on folks for buying Microsoft stock. No, with these folks it’s an OBSESSION. What was most interesting though, as the price of gold
continued to rise past $1800, after years of calling gold a “stupid thing” and all manner of specious arguments, this poster decided that the government should now steal it. Now, we all know that was the underlying sentiment all along - control freaks are, well, control freaks.

My contention is that even some gold bugs want “confiscation”, probably because they associate such notions with FDR, Ft. Knox, a relatively secure childhood or stories of same, and a period of economic stability that no longer exists. Somebody to “take care” of things. Uncle Sugar, why, he’s good for it - gubbmint has all that money! See where I’m going with that?


44 posted on 11/24/2012 7:30:34 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: SkyPilot

I don’t write off JS as a kook, though he definitely has some “tout” (to put it into a single word) characteristics. Indeed, he is eminently qualified to speak to gold and its various whatevers, having written about gold from long ago and far away. He’s been an advocate (not a permabull) for many, many years. More importantly, he has called the major moves in the gold market for at least 40 years. Including the massive dump post-1980, which he said (at the time) would take 15 years to play out (it took 20) He’s been the CEO of several companies (now: Tan Range Gold in Tanzania) and has been head of several trading and market making firms. Should you study the gold (or silver) market you’ll find there are maybe 20 guys who are the acknowledged gurus and he’s one of them.

this article may give you a better idea of where he comes from than the snippet originally posted.

http://www.futuresmag.com/2012/05/01/jim-sinclair-has-something-to-say?t=regulations&page=2

Anyway, I’ve been into precious metals for many, many years and have more often than not thought that the stack of dumb metal piled up in the corner is smarter than the smartest smarties there are. One either buys the metal and holds it for time indefinite, or not. The type of broad-brush, all encompassing “this will never happen” statement covering 4 distinct aspects (possible confiscation of physical, the taxation of phys sales, the taxation of stock (GLD) sales, the potential reinstatement of a gold standard) all of which are large if not giant topics, I am not comfortable with.

But...he’s been in the gold market decades longer than I have.


45 posted on 11/24/2012 7:33:25 PM PST by Attention Surplus Disorder (This stuff we're going through now, this is nothing compared to the middle ages.)
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To: Attention Surplus Disorder

Maybe Mr. Sinclair is correct - look at this way.

Leaving aside (for the moment) the “unfunded” obligations of Social Security and Medicaire, estimated somwhere between 120 and 220 Trillion, there is currently (that we know about, anyway) 16 Trillion dollar debt that is owed.

How much would that be in gold? Well, a lot. I’m not the best at math, but if I recall correctly, gold is measured in Troy ounces, not avoirdupois. So, a “ton of gold” would be, or pretty close to 32,150 Troy ounces.

Now, since we’re buying in quantity - we get a discount to current spot price @ $1750 smooth, - and so the current national debt as it stands now is approx. equal to 284,381 tons of gold. Current stock of US Monetary gold stands at around 8,000 tons, so we’ve got a bit of work ahead of us.

Then we can get serious about Social Security, and Medicaire, and Obamacaire, and Carbon Tax.. etc.


46 posted on 11/24/2012 8:14:46 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: dennisw

I am more concerned with Obama and his marxist minions planning to steal everyones IRA’s and 401K’s, and putting them into a national federally run retirement system.


47 posted on 11/24/2012 8:21:41 PM PST by catfish1957 (My dream for hope and change is to see the punk POTUS in prison for treason)
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To: Freedom4US

There are several ways to calculate what the POG “should be” or “where it will go”-—and that’s one, and arguably one of the better ones. That argument has the tacit assumption that somehow the US debt should be denominated in gold, and if it was....

But, there is worldwide market in gold, not just in terms of native, organic demand, but actual markets. Chinese and Russians can actually buy (and of course sell) gold.

So there are massively more potential investors in gold. And gold represents a miniscule percentage of current investmnet vehicles, something like < 1%, and it would be less except for the rise in the price of gold over the last say 5 years.
This is not meant as a permabull justification...after all, if so many investors can buy, so can many more investors sell.

I for one am not the biggest fan of a gold standard. After all, if it were so, who do you think would be the greatest manipulators of same? JPM? Goldman? Count on it.

I myself kind of try to steer clear of grandiose macro theories on gold. As I said, most of the time, I think a dumb stack of metal piled up in the corner is smarter than the so-called gurus. I *do* think the monetary authorities have disdain for gold and disdain the idea of standardizing on it as a backing for currency.

In the Sinclair interview I posted, there are two subtle things he said that I tend to agree with:

1: China has bought massive amounts of natural resources around the world BUT THEY BOUGHT THEM (and the future streams of them) IN DOLLARS which means that a massive devaluation in the USD would in effect hedge them very nicely *and* keep them in the minerals etc; they project they need (clever, huh?)

2: The monetary authorities (the Fed, the IMF, the ECB) are more concerned with a parabolic price rise in gold, not so much as its absolute level. This makes sense to me, because in my mind, those authorities deal far more with expectations than realities. So if the POG rockets skyward, this sends a signal of massive debasement (which is going on, to be sure) but as long as this occurs at a modest, sort of controlled rate, it’s going to be “OK”. Just whom it is OK with is another question, but it’s OK with them, and you and I pay our taxes to them so that is controlling.

Down here on the ground, we mere mortals cannot know any of this with any sort of certainty. We can only place some bets here and some bets there so that we don’t get killed if the needle slams all the way to one side. Things to me lean towards inflation but not out-of-control inflation. Cocktail party talk of dollar weakness is belied by a glance at a ^DXY chart. If gold skys, then oil should sky. If oil skys, then the world economy grinds to a lower level of activity and there is less interest and ability to stuff excess cash into (dead) gold and more interest in liquidating gold. There will, IMO, be a point where green cash might very well be able to buy assets at distressed enough prices so that odds better favor appreciation in those assets vs gold. This is not crazy talk, if you bought common stocks circa March or April 2009, you have a 6x in Dow Chemical and a 4x in Caterpillar and etc etc. To do that, you needed cash, then. So, gotta have some of both. And arms and ammo, too. That there’s my definiton of diversity!


48 posted on 11/24/2012 8:40:08 PM PST by Attention Surplus Disorder (This stuff we're going through now, this is nothing compared to the middle ages.)
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To: muir_redwoods
It’s still amazing to me that men like my father obeyed such a decree. Today my only response would not be printable on a site like this one.

Back then people trusted the government and (even the Republicans) felt "If President Roosevelt feels that turning in my gold will help get America going again then by golly I will turn in my gold"

Today, not even the most harden Democrats would feel that way about Obama if he were to ever issue such an order.

Which is why I don't think it would ever happen again, because it would probably costs more trying to enforce such an order than they would get back in confiscated gold.

49 posted on 11/24/2012 10:35:27 PM PST by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: Attention Surplus Disorder
Very informative - thank you. I was not familiar with him, but you enlightened me some. Also, your actions are very prudent. You are type of smart individual that is not motivated by the idiot box, the rabble, or the radio ads that loudly scream at you.

Because of this, I can pretty much guarantee that you and people like you were not standing in line Thanksgiving night in a cold parking lot, elbowing others, waiting to save $35.00 off a pair of sneakers.

50 posted on 11/25/2012 5:12:35 AM PST by SkyPilot
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