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Donít Renters Have Fourth Amendment Rights?
Cato Institute ^ | 12/26/2012 | By Ilya Shapiro

Posted on 12/30/2012 10:41:47 AM PST by redreno

A person’s home is his castle and thus affords certain protections and immunities—including the right to exclude unwanted visitors—that apply whether you own or rent. Unfortunately, ordinances authorizing general administrative searches of rental properties have been increasingly adopted by local authorities with little protection for property rights or privacy interests.

These inspections cover the whole of the buildings and all of the activity that occurs within, opening every aspect of people’s lives to the government: political and religious affiliations, intimate relationships, and even all those Justin Bieber posters and Fifty Shades of Gray books you hide when people come over. They take place even if both the landlord and tenant believe them not to be necessary!

(Excerpt) Read more at cato.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government
KEYWORDS: govtabuse; rent; rentals; tyranny

1 posted on 12/30/2012 10:41:49 AM PST by redreno
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To: redreno
is this section-8 housing or some form of state money paying the rent??? can't tell from the article
2 posted on 12/30/2012 10:58:33 AM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: redreno

Hm, the government more and more disregards the 4th Amendment — the sad thing is that so many justify these unlawful violations, saying they make us safer. [TSA being a prime example.]


3 posted on 12/30/2012 11:01:51 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: redreno

Anyone who has purchased a home is regarded as having a number of inviolate rights. In a sense, so has the person who has rented the use of a property for a term. If the renter is fulfilling the terms of that rental agreement, i.e., not using the property for illegal purposes, is current in payment of rental due, and does due diligence and vigilance in the maintenance of the property during his tenancy, has, or should have, essentially the same inviolate rights. As the “bundle of rights” that supposedly adhere to the property are partly shared with the holder of title to the property, some of the rights are either bartered away as part of the rental agreement, or are by nature not transferred to the renter, in that the renter cannot put the property up for security in any financial transaction, but is likewise not responsible for payment of any liens that may have been incurred against the title of the property.

I know, “MEGO” - mine eyes glaze over. This may be WAY more information than anybody asked for, but does the “castle doctrine” apply on rental property”? The short answer is “Yes, but...”


4 posted on 12/30/2012 11:06:24 AM PST by alloysteel (Bronco Bama - the cowboy who whooped up and widened the stampede.)
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To: redreno

If renting, I wouldn’t expect any real or absolute 4th amendment protections within my ‘home’. Obviously, the land lord can enter the place any time he likes, and he can give others permission to enter as well.

If you have a mortgage, can someone from your bank enter your house?


5 posted on 12/30/2012 11:14:56 AM PST by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: KoRn
Obviously, the land lord can enter the place any time he likes, and he can give others permission to enter as well.

That is simply not true. The owner must notify you when he plans to enter or have someone enter on his behalf.

6 posted on 12/30/2012 11:20:37 AM PST by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: KoRn

^^^ If you have a mortgage, can someone from your bank enter your house? ^^^

If you have a mortgage, are you really the owner?


7 posted on 12/30/2012 11:21:32 AM PST by wrench
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To: KoRn
Obviously, the land lord can enter the place any time he likes, and he can give others permission to enter as well.

I don't know how the laws are in the East but out here in the West landlords have to give you 24 hrs. notice if they want to enter your home for any reason other than an emergency. Even then he has to have a valid reason, minor repairs, upgrades etc.

Any others he gives permission to must be in his accompaniment.

8 posted on 12/30/2012 11:21:41 AM PST by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
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To: KoRn

Renters do have the same 4th Amendment protections as a home owner. Unless specified in a rental contract, the right to privacy also includes turning away the owner of the house or their agents.


9 posted on 12/30/2012 11:23:16 AM PST by redreno (Americans don't go Gault. Americans go Postal.)
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To: redreno

My understanding as a general matter is that renters have the same 4th Amendment protections as owners, i.e., have a reasonable expectation of privacy in their living quarters which prevents a search in the absence of a court-issued warrant. However, I don’t believe a guest in the premises regardless of how long they’ve been staying is afforded that protection. For example, a parent who owns (or rents) the house can consent to police to have a child’s room searched.


10 posted on 12/30/2012 11:28:27 AM PST by AtlasStalled
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To: redreno

Everybody else treats renters like trash, no reason the government shouldn’t....


11 posted on 12/30/2012 11:34:02 AM PST by varmintman
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To: redreno

I know that in some of the apartments that I lived in, the usual way they got to “look around” was when it was time to bug spray. You had no choice but to accept it.


12 posted on 12/30/2012 11:35:25 AM PST by BobL (Agenda 21...Agenda 21...Agenda 21...Agenda 21...Agenda 21... (whatever the hell that is))
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To: wrench

“If you have a mortgage, are you really the owner?”

Legally yes - the mortgage company (i.e., federal government these days) only has a lien on it. The title of the property is in your name.

Of course, try not paying your mortgage and see who, in the real world, owns it.


13 posted on 12/30/2012 11:37:47 AM PST by BobL (Agenda 21...Agenda 21...Agenda 21...Agenda 21...Agenda 21... (whatever the hell that is))
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To: AtlasStalled
Does not the 4th amendment protect you from Gov't?

If you have a contract that specifies the time and date of a visit or search by the owner, then that is contractual. However, I don't know in other cases.

There has been a recent similar issue. Loss protection personnel go through your bags and such at stores. Dunno the legal recourse of that, but I suspect you 'entered' in agreement of that type of contract when you entered the store.

14 posted on 12/30/2012 11:38:17 AM PST by Theoria
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To: wrench
If you have a mortgage, are you really the owner?

Even if you "own" and have no mortgage, you are not in charge. Try not paying your property taxes or your sewer and garbage bills or your homeowners association dues and find out what happens.

15 posted on 12/30/2012 11:51:07 AM PST by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: Theoria

“Loss protection personnel go through your bags and such at stores. Dunno the legal recourse of that, but I suspect you ‘entered’ in agreement of that type of contract when you entered the store.”

You do have the choice of not going to that store if it bothers you. Government wearying your home, not so much.


16 posted on 12/30/2012 11:52:42 AM PST by Lurkina.n.Learnin (Superciliousness is the essence of Obama)
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To: Lurkina.n.Learnin

“wearying” = searching. ;(


17 posted on 12/30/2012 11:54:11 AM PST by Lurkina.n.Learnin (Superciliousness is the essence of Obama)
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To: wrench
"If you have a mortgage, are you really the owner?"

Yep, at least until foreclosure starts or if you have no taxes in arrears or outstanding liens.

18 posted on 12/30/2012 11:54:38 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: redreno

“...Justin Bieber posters...”

Those people deserve a special kind of ridicule.


19 posted on 12/30/2012 11:57:56 AM PST by carriage_hill (Have A Happy & Healthy New Year!)
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To: Theoria

The problem with all this is, the law does not enforce itself. Yes, you have owners’ rights as a tenant...on paper. Just like almost every other law on the books...there oughta be a law. Well, there is. It’s just not enforced, and it is up to the aggrieved party to undertake his/her remedy. When I was a property owner and rented it/them out, I was pretty religious when it came to observing my tenants’ rights and I treated them as I would want to be treated. But that’s just me.

The law does not enforce itself.


20 posted on 12/30/2012 12:03:38 PM PST by Attention Surplus Disorder (This stuff we're going through now, this is nothing compared to the middle ages.)
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To: wrench

^^^ If you have a mortgage, can someone from your bank enter your house? ^^^

>> If you have a mortgage, are you really the owner?

If your real estate can be alienated from you for nonpayment of property taxes, are you really the owner?


21 posted on 12/30/2012 12:07:02 PM PST by JadeEmperor
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To: BobL

No, you can refuse that too. I never allowed the exterminator in when I had cats.


22 posted on 12/30/2012 12:17:21 PM PST by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

“No, you can refuse that too. I never allowed the exterminator in when I had cats.”

Good to know that...I semi-own now (i.e., still a mortgage, and always property taxes).

Thanks.


23 posted on 12/30/2012 12:29:41 PM PST by BobL (Agenda 21...Agenda 21...Agenda 21...Agenda 21...Agenda 21... (whatever the hell that is))
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To: Paladin2
"If you have a mortgage, are you really the owner?" Yep, at least until foreclosure starts or if you have no taxes in arrears or outstanding liens.

Seem to recall a recent SCOTUS ruling that says otherwise.

24 posted on 12/30/2012 12:38:22 PM PST by Starstruck (Washinton is presently building a diving board on the fiscal cliff)
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To: Theoria

Unless its a membership store where you signed that option away, you can refuse loss prevention inspections. The store can in turn ask you never to come back to that store or the entire chain.

I have seen too many buffoons in loss prevention to have much respect for them. I have cost several their jobs over time and injured a couple.


25 posted on 12/30/2012 1:28:14 PM PST by Starwolf
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To: alloysteel

Well.. technically, thanks to the overbearing govt.. we don’t even ‘own’ the property we paid for... we still have to pay taxes on something we already own :/


26 posted on 12/30/2012 1:42:17 PM PST by Bikkuri (Hope for Conservative push in the next 2-4 years..........)
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To: elkfersupper
You read my mind:

My Post
27 posted on 12/30/2012 1:44:52 PM PST by Bikkuri (Hope for Conservative push in the next 2-4 years..........)
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To: redreno

they do, but when they enter into a renter’s contract, they agree to be bound to the terms of the rental agreement. there are well established reasonable standards of what can and can’t be in a rental contract and it varies state to state. further if the building owners believe there’s risk of damage to their property, or illegal activity going on, they have rights as well.


28 posted on 12/30/2012 1:45:02 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: KoRn

bank - no. they don’t have keys and breaking in would be illegal.


29 posted on 12/30/2012 1:46:40 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Paladin2

How about eminent domain action filed by anyone with more money or political connections than the property owner?


30 posted on 12/30/2012 1:53:13 PM PST by wrench (I want my country back)
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To: varmintman
Everybody else treats renters like trash, no reason the government shouldn’t....

The government treats everybody like trash.

31 posted on 12/30/2012 2:29:25 PM PST by BfloGuy (Workers and consumers are, of course, identical.)
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To: Lurkina.n.Learnin

“wearying” = searching. ;(

Either one works. The government wearies me whenever its agents & employees show up; it may well weary my home, too, to have them in or about it.


32 posted on 12/30/2012 7:12:58 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (Love me, love my guns!©)
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