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To: driftdiver
Pull out price supports and the agriculture industry, what is left of it, will collapse.

No.It.Won't.

A lot of small family farms will collapse, but the industry will not. Now, I have a fondness for small family farms -- don't get me wrong. I live in an upstate New York farming village that would see some serious repercussions to the ending of government subsidies.

But it ain't right and it doesn't make economic sense to subsidize small, inefficient operations with the hard-earned dollars of American workers.

48 posted on 12/31/2012 3:32:03 PM PST by BfloGuy (Workers and consumers are, of course, identical.)
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To: BfloGuy

“But it ain’t right and it doesn’t make economic sense to subsidize small, inefficient operations with the hard-earned dollars of American workers. “

Ah so you’d prefer to use the govt to hand the market to big business.

Yeah thats American.


51 posted on 12/31/2012 3:40:13 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: BfloGuy

Actually, without subsidies and price supports, it won’t be the smaller farms that collapse.

It will be the largest ones that are operating with significant leverage and debt load.

If you look at who actually receives subsidies from the US government, over two-thirds of the subsidies are taken in by the largest farmers in the country. They have a staff, just as a corporation does, to navigate the paperwork.

Small farms and farmers don’t have the time required to capitalize on all these various programs.

Now, specifically to the dairy and milk questions here, since I know a little bit about his industry because I used to sell alfalfa hay to California/Nevada/Idaho dairies:

The largest dairies in the country are typically highly leveraged. They exist purely on a principle of huge cash flows and flipping over their inventory, reducing in-house capabilities to nearly nothing so that they can expense everything that has been out-sourced (like their hay production, their replacement heifers, their vet services, their nutrition consultants, etc) immediately and not have to depreciate anything.

If you removed the various milk marketing orders and milk marketing areas, co-mingled all the milk markets into one large market and then reduced the various price supports for fluid milk and cheese... my bet would be that the big guys go under first and fastest.

And having seen a couple of large dairies go under, lemme tell you how this happens: Fast. So fast that the companies that have outstanding product yet to be paid for don’t get paid. I never had a load (or load*S*) of hay out at dairies that went belly-up, by I had neighbors who did and they never got paid on nearly $30K of hay. The dairy just took delivery, fed the hay all in one week and the next week, they shipped their cows to the slaughterhouse, closed down the dairy and stopped answering their phones. Because these huge “Dutch model” dairies operate with so little in the way of capital assets, there’s not much to grab in BK court.

As a result of a couple of large “Dutch model” dairies going under in a region (say, CA, ID or SD), you’d suddenly see the banks that extend operating loans or equipment loans/leases to these outfits getting very nervous, and denying renewal of operating lines or revolvers... and then a bunch more of these large dairies go down in flames.

Which might not be a bad thing, in the long run...


56 posted on 12/31/2012 4:24:49 PM PST by NVDave
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