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Rage Against the Coin
NYT ^ | January 8, 2013 | Paul Krugman (Moonbat)

Posted on 01/09/2013 8:37:01 AM PST by Qbert

Well, the trillion-dollar-coin thing — deal with the debt ceiling by exploiting a legal loophole to have the Treasury mint one or more large-denomination coins, deposit them at the Fed, and use the cash in the new account to pay bills — has really taken off. Last month I spoke with a senior Fed official who had never heard of the idea; these days it’s all over.

There seem to be two kinds of objections. One is that it would be undignified. Here’s how to think about that: we have a situation in which a terrorist may be about to walk into a crowded room and threaten to blow up a bomb he’s holding. It turns out, however, that the Secret Service has figured out a way to disarm this maniac — a way that for some reason will require that the Secretary of the Treasury briefly wear a clown suit. (My fictional plotting skills have let me down, but there has to be some way to work this in). And the response of the nervous Nellies is, “My god, we can’t dress the secretary up as a clown!” Even when it will make him a hero...

[Snip]

What the hysterics see is a terrible, outrageous attempt to pay the government’s bills out of thin air. This is utterly wrong, and in fact is wrong on two levels.

The first level is that in practice minting the coin would be nothing but an accounting fiction, enabling the government to continue doing exactly what it would have done if the debt limit were raised.

[Snip]

So minting the coin would be undignified, but so what? At the same time, it would be economically harmless — and would both avoid catastrophic economic developments and help head off government by blackmail.

(Excerpt) Read more at krugman.blogs.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: debt; debtceiling; moonbat; paulkrugman; platinumcoin; printingpress; spending

"What the hysterics see is a terrible, outrageous attempt to pay the government’s bills out of thin air. This is utterly wrong, and in fact is wrong on two levels. The first level is that in practice minting the coin would be nothing but an accounting fiction, enabling the government to continue doing exactly what it would have done if the debt limit were raised."

The former Enron advisor crafts a new accounting fiction...

1 posted on 01/09/2013 8:37:10 AM PST by Qbert
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To: Qbert
I agree this is the main objection to the minting of this coin. Currency, surely represents wealth. It is not wealth in and of itself. It would be ok to mint a trillion dollar coin, or even a gadzillion dollar coin, if the wealth that it represented actually existed in some way. But of course it does not.

I wouldn't worry about the first objection, that it is an undignified thing to do. The economic reputation of the USA is already at rock-bottom as it is.

2 posted on 01/09/2013 8:45:26 AM PST by Vanders9
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To: Qbert

We actually own most of our debt, not China. A common misperception. So just forgive our own debt.


3 posted on 01/09/2013 8:47:06 AM PST by TheRhinelander
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To: Qbert
The first level is that in practice minting the coin would be nothing but an accounting fiction, enabling the government to continue doing exactly what it would have done if the debt limit were raised.

[Snip]

So minting the coin would be undignified, but so what? At the same time, it would be economically harmless — and would both avoid catastrophic economic developments and help head off government by blackmail.

Or, more accurately, it would be no more harmful than the Federal Reserve creating trillions of dollars out of nothing to lend to the government. When the dam breaks inflation is going to be ugly. Don't get stuck in cash or bonds.

4 posted on 01/09/2013 8:47:19 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Choose one: the yellow and black flag of the Tea Party or the white flag of the Republican Party.)
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To: Qbert

Destroying a nation’s currency with massive infusions of fake (fiat) “money” is definitely NOT “economically harmless!”. Indeed, its exactly the prescription for (finally) bringing great nations to ruin. Krugman is not so ignorant to not know this. Any good high school history class covers this simple fact. So why is he lying to us about it ?


5 posted on 01/09/2013 8:48:27 AM PST by faithhopecharity
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To: Qbert

Here’s a useful question that Krugman should ask himself - What would happen if I tried this in the private sector, would I go to jail or to a local psychiatric ward?


6 posted on 01/09/2013 8:49:39 AM PST by vbmoneyspender
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To: Qbert
Why don't these geniuses just wave a magic wand at the problem? It would be less work and just as effective.
7 posted on 01/09/2013 8:51:51 AM PST by Joe Brower (The "American People" are no longer capable of self-governance.)
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To: TheRhinelander

“We actually own most of our debt, not China. A common misperception. So just forgive our own debt.”

We?


8 posted on 01/09/2013 8:51:59 AM PST by Daveinyork (."Trusting government with power and money is like trusting teenaged boys with whiskey and car keys,)
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To: vbmoneyspender

Probably both... in the psychiatric ward of the jail, at least if the world outside is sane.

The comments on the slimes site is generally to be expected - mostly leftists responding. One, though, of note turns the tables a bit: Imagine a republican president wanting to finance a war cheaply, and then minting overnight an $800 billion coin to do so. The left would go NUTZ in such a scenario.


9 posted on 01/09/2013 8:54:46 AM PST by C210N (When people fear government there is tyranny; when government fears people there is liberty)
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To: TheRhinelander
We actually own most of our debt, not China. A common misperception. So just forgive our own debt.

"We" means the individual citizens and businesses of the country while "our" means the parasites in Washington. If those bonds are "forgiven" (i.e. stolen by the government), expect some very, very rough times.

Every bank's reserves in treasury bonds immediately become worthless. I hope you are the one in the front of the line for the bank run when the news hits.

How about your insurance company's investments? That life insurance you've put money into for your entire life? Gone instantly, or at least greatly reduced in value. And the reserves for car and property insurance disappear too, so you better hope that it isn't a bad year for disasters if you wreck your car.

Have bonds in your retirement account or even some savings bonds in your bedroom drawer? You better hope that WalMart can use you as a greeter when you hit seventy.

10 posted on 01/09/2013 8:54:58 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Choose one: the yellow and black flag of the Tea Party or the white flag of the Republican Party.)
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To: Qbert
This has been Bammy the Slammy's secret cut the deficit in half plan all along.

Just print it.

Till the Chinese informed him of the consequences of trying to pay debt with monopoly money!

11 posted on 01/09/2013 8:56:51 AM PST by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: vbmoneyspender

Indeed...


12 posted on 01/09/2013 8:58:20 AM PST by Lexinom
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To: vbmoneyspender

Indeed...


13 posted on 01/09/2013 8:58:21 AM PST by Lexinom
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To: Qbert

It’s magical thinking. Straight up voodoo. Worse than “quantitative easing” by an order of magnitude. It’s the stuff of economic Zimbabwean laughingstocks and will destroy what credibility remains for US economic might. Which is, of course, what these transnational leftists no doubt want to do, usher in a single world currency under a single world authority. Got to destroy the US and the dollar first, and they’re just about there.


14 posted on 01/09/2013 9:00:11 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: Qbert
Why stop at one trillion?


15 posted on 01/09/2013 9:01:19 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: Qbert

How long before we take a wheelbarrow of cash to the store to buy a loaf of bread?


16 posted on 01/09/2013 9:01:35 AM PST by NY.SS-Bar9 (Mitt has dogs for pets - Obama had them for lunch)
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To: Qbert
I think that Krugman may be crossing the line, now. He has been a notorious Fabian for years; but this article suggests that he no longer is even able to argue by traditional Leftist hypotheses. Certainly the clown suite attempted analogy, suggests a deteriorating ability to recognize actual logical relationships.

William Flax

17 posted on 01/09/2013 9:02:42 AM PST by Ohioan
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To: Qbert

This is stupid gone to seed.


18 posted on 01/09/2013 9:04:44 AM PST by LucianOfSamasota (Tanstaafl - its not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: vbmoneyspender

“What would happen if I tried this in the private sector, would I go to jail or to a local psychiatric ward?”

What if any impact does this have on the ‘BitCoin’ realm?

http://bitcoin.org

Are these people in danger by an intrusive govt? Will the govt go after these folks overnight?


19 posted on 01/09/2013 9:04:46 AM PST by George from New England (escaped CT in 2006, now living north of Tampa)
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To: faithhopecharity

"Destroying a nation’s currency with massive infusions of fake (fiat) “money” is definitely NOT “economically harmless!”. Indeed, its exactly the prescription for (finally) bringing great nations to ruin. Krugman is not so ignorant to not know this. Any good high school history class covers this simple fact. So why is he lying to us about it ?"

The whole idea is to create a false sense of "stability" in the short-term so that they can ram home as much of their progressive agenda as possible. When it all comes crashing down at some future time, it won't bother them at all, because if all goes according to plan, they will have already won.

20 posted on 01/09/2013 9:05:36 AM PST by Qbert ("The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry" - William F. Buckley, Jr.)
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To: faithhopecharity
Destroying a nation’s currency with massive infusions of fake (fiat) “money” is definitely NOT “economically harmless!”.

There was actually a time in this country when debasing the currency was a capital offense.

21 posted on 01/09/2013 9:08:12 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: KarlInOhio
Every bank's reserves in treasury bonds immediately become worthless. I hope you are the one in the front of the line for the bank run when the news hits.

How about your insurance company's investments? That life insurance you've put money into for your entire life? Gone instantly, or at least greatly reduced in value. And the reserves for car and property insurance disappear too, so you better hope that it isn't a bad year for disasters if you wreck your car.

Have bonds in your retirement account or even some savings bonds in your bedroom drawer? You better hope that WalMart can use you as a greeter when you hit seventy.

Given that banks were bailed out by gov, I have little sympathy for them in this scenario; what sympathy I do have is to those who bought into government lies.
Same with insurance companies, but moreso, as they have used government to force people to buy their product.

Everyone would be better off with a more impotent federal government; if this means those supporting its corruption have to go down, so be it & let it happen.

22 posted on 01/09/2013 9:14:36 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Vanders9

What it is is unconstitutional. Revenue decisions are a power of Congress, specifically the House of Representatives. This is done purely as an unintended manipulation of a law about minting coins.


23 posted on 01/09/2013 9:16:50 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: Qbert

How about we pretend a tulip bulb is worth a fortune. Oh, wait, it’s been done.


24 posted on 01/09/2013 9:18:52 AM PST by Flick Lives (We're going to be just like the old Soviet Union, but with free cell phones!)
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To: Qbert

“When it all comes crashing down” is precisely their objective (and thus is synonymous with their “winning”). The crash won’t just happen after they’re done, it will define the completion of their agenda.


25 posted on 01/09/2013 9:20:29 AM PST by faithhopecharity
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To: Qbert

The coin should have a picture of Congress in clown suits!


26 posted on 01/09/2013 9:21:53 AM PST by Brightitude
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To: Qbert
Oh my gosh! How damn stupid. With thinking like this I am firmly convinced that there is absolutely no hope. We are done. What backs this as@ hole of a coin? As a matter of fact nothing much backs our currency now.
27 posted on 01/09/2013 9:24:03 AM PST by Logical me
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To: Qbert

Rather than waste the platinum,(by the way, where’s that supposed to come from?) here’s a better plan:

Round up all the art school graduates and have them make, find or excrete something for a promise of extra social security sometime in the distant future and a good reference letter (the White House has a press and rubber stamp).

Then, get the New York times art critic to declare them all masterpieces. Afterwards, stash that crap somewhere— no security needed since everyone else will assume it’s junk.

Then, claim the value of all that “art” as a national cultural treasure and base the value of their notes on its declared worth.


28 posted on 01/09/2013 10:39:02 AM PST by tsomer
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To: NY.SS-Bar9

Willkommen in Weimar Amerika!


29 posted on 01/09/2013 10:49:12 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Obama: Brought to you by the letter "O" and the number 16 trillion.)
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To: Qbert

Boink Boink Boink

the king has no clothes!


30 posted on 01/09/2013 11:30:11 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Qbert; Revolting cat!; Slings and Arrows
"So minting the (trillion dollar) coin would be undignified, but so what? At the same time, it would be economically harmless" - Paul Krugman

Nevermind pesky inflation and devaluation.

We're off on the road to Zimbabwe, we certainly do get around...

31 posted on 01/09/2013 12:04:04 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: KarlInOhio; Qbert
He got the "accounting fiction" part right...
32 posted on 01/09/2013 12:07:32 PM PST by 4Liberty (Some on our "Roads & Bridges" head to the beach. Others head to their offices, farms, libraries....)
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To: faithhopecharity
In my economic course in the 1980s, there was an example from the 1960s or 70s where some people conspired to "wreck" the economy by encouraging people to cause a run on the banks with one day's withdrawls.

The Left has plotted and schemed for generations. This is a sustained LOOTING of the national wealth (the money is handed out with NO intentions of ever paying it off, that money is being used to feather nests of the protected interest groups). Obama is going unchecked and really doesn't give a DAMN about ever meeting his fiscal RESPONSIBILITY. He does seek to usher in a post-American world. Otherwise he's a complete dumbass if he thinks he can buy his way out of debts.

33 posted on 01/09/2013 12:07:58 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: Qbert
[Article/Pharticle/Testicle]

...mint one or more large-denomination coins, deposit them at the Fed, and use the cash in the new account to pay bills .....



I'm sure the Chinese will be deliriously happy to see one of these supercoins show up at their Washington embassy. They'll be thrilled.
34 posted on 01/09/2013 12:09:28 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: Qbert
The whole idea is to create a false sense of "stability" in the short-term so that they can ram home as much of their progressive agenda as possible.

They have to know that proposing a stunt like this, with its massive freight of unseriousness, will have the opposite effect.

But then, perhaps that is what they intended.

35 posted on 01/09/2013 12:19:35 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: Qbert
All other arguments against the coin ploy aside, here's a fundamental problem with the scheme: Let's say it's National Treasure 3, and Nick Cage's character breaks into the Treasury and steals the $1T coin. How much can he actually get for it on the open market? Is it really worth $1T, or something in the general neighborhood? Or does it have a value -- as a coin -- equal only to its component metal(s)? Or something inbetween?

Or, more to the point, outside of the perception of value, how much is a $1T coin actually worth?

36 posted on 01/09/2013 12:22:50 PM PST by kevkrom (If a wise man has an argument with a foolish man, the fool only rages or laughs...)
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To: Logical me
We need to print 200 Trillion dollar coins, have the Fed pay 3 percent interest on the coins. That way we can start paying decent interest on individual savings. Thats 6 trillion a year use 3 trillion a year to pay off all federal debt and spend the other 3 trillion. In about 5 years all debt is gone and in the maan time all other taxes can be eliminated. Or we could make it a Quadrillion and do it in less than a year. Absoulutly brillant Idea.
37 posted on 01/09/2013 12:24:55 PM PST by stevencraw
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To: Logical me
We need to print 200 Trillion dollar coins, have the Fed pay 3 percent interest on the coins. That way we can start paying decent interest on individual savings. Thats 6 trillion a year use 3 trillion a year to pay off all federal debt and spend the other 3 trillion. In about 5 years all debt is gone and in the maan time all other taxes can be eliminated. Or we could make it a Quadrillion and do it in less than a year. Absoulutly brillant Idea.
38 posted on 01/09/2013 12:26:00 PM PST by stevencraw
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To: Qbert

Well, Krugman doesn’t think there should be a debt ceiling, so it only makes sense he supports cheating the system to get around it. Take note: This is one of those times when Krugman looks warmly upon a “loophole.”


39 posted on 01/09/2013 12:28:55 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: kevkrom

how much is a $1T coin actually worth?

PRETTY SOON.............. ABOUT 2 CENTS


40 posted on 01/09/2013 12:38:48 PM PST by TomasUSMC ( FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM)
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To: Qbert
It turns out, however, that the Secret Service has figured out a way to disarm this maniac — a way that for some reason will require that the Secretary of the Treasury briefly wear a clown suit.

A two-fer: an imaginary straw man that absolutely nobody in the world has offered.

41 posted on 01/09/2013 12:46:01 PM PST by jiggyboy (Ten percent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: a fool in paradise

Yes. And his desired “post-American world” is definitely something most of us (if we’re permitted to stay alive) will not find very attractive (or beneficial)


42 posted on 01/09/2013 1:00:54 PM PST by faithhopecharity
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To: DuncanWaring

Sounds like a good idea!


43 posted on 01/09/2013 1:03:32 PM PST by faithhopecharity
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To: faithhopecharity
The fifth column have been very forward and public with their dislike of this nation.

MADelieine Albright said she was frightened by the possibility of a future where America was the lone superpower.

44 posted on 01/09/2013 1:22:09 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: Qbert
Why doesn't Congress just declare Monopoly money to be legal tender?

What is a Nobel Prize worth any more?

45 posted on 01/09/2013 2:09:44 PM PST by Lysandru
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To: a fool in paradise

yes.
the odd thing is that Obama has sent American troops into 25 African countries (apparently, like his bombing of Libya and his deposing in Egypt) to bring the radical Islamicists into power...

so America as ruled by these antiAmerican people is far, far more aggressive sending military to disrupt or overthrow foreign countries..... than it ever was under JFK, RMN, RWR, or anybody else since.

It seems as if the antiAmerican crowd is fulfilling its own prophecy (fear that America as the only super-power will be a danger to the world...)


46 posted on 01/09/2013 2:28:33 PM PST by faithhopecharity
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To: Vanders9
Somewhere in the South Sea Islands they used large stone wheels as money--they just stayed in one spot and it was understood who the owner was. They were too big to steal, and it worked fine. Why should we waste a bunch of platinum when a good big chunk of carved sandstone will serve just as well.
47 posted on 01/09/2013 2:40:34 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: hinckley buzzard
Why should we waste a bunch of platinum when a good big chunk of carved sandstone will serve just as well.

Because that would require a law. It is already legal to make platinum, legal tender coins, primarily for the mint to make collector's items, but unlike gold and silver Congress never put a limit on the value of the platinum coins allowed so a trillion dollar coin could get through that loophole. Big rocks aren't on the list.

And it wouldn't even be a "big chunk" of platinum - just something large enough to hold a one followed by a dozen zeroes. One ounce per coin should be more than enough.

48 posted on 01/09/2013 3:15:56 PM PST by KarlInOhio (Choose one: the yellow and black flag of the Tea Party or the white flag of the Republican Party.)
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To: Qbert; Vanders9; TheRhinelander; KarlInOhio; faithhopecharity; vbmoneyspender; Joe Brower; ...

Make a mockery of this idea by carrying it to its extreme logical conclusion.

Please sign and promote the White House Petition:

“Produce a Trillion Dollar Coin for Every U.S. Citizen for the Purpose of Paying Taxes

Activities and services pledged by the U.S. government exceed the ability to pay based on current tax revenue. The budget deficit is added to the national debt, and federal taxes are used in part to pay for the debt and interest.

“Trillion dollar” coins are being considered to pay the national debt, however, we petition the U.S. Government to mint an adequate quantity of “trillion dollar” coins to pay off the national debt, and enough additional coins to provide one for each citizen of the United States.

These coins can only be used to pay federal, state, and miscellaneous taxes for the lifetime of the recipient. Residual funds from each coin will be available to heirs of the recipients, and will be exempt from inheritance tax.”

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/produce-trillion-dollar-coin-every-us-citizen-purpose-paying-taxes/6rPprh5c


49 posted on 01/09/2013 8:43:41 PM PST by rusty millet
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To: Flick Lives

Good point.


50 posted on 01/10/2013 4:53:10 AM PST by Vanders9
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