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ACLU wants Ohio school's Jesus portrait removed; school says picture historically important
Fox News ^ | 7 February 2013 | Dansewell

Posted on 02/07/2013 8:27:54 PM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

CINCINNATI – A portrait of Jesus that hangs prominently in an entranceway at a rural Ohio public school is in violation of the U.S. Constitution and should be removed, a federal lawsuit filed Thursday says.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio and the Madison, Wis.-based Freedom From Religion Foundation say the large portrait at Jackson Middle School unconstitutionally promotes religion. The two groups seek a court order requiring the school to remove the portrait and prohibiting its re-hanging or any substantially similar display in the future.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: aclu; freedomfrom; jesus; misotheism; religionfoundation; school
In the middle of all of the evil surrounding us and growing stronger, we need to remove portraits of Jesus from schools. Thank you ACLU
1 posted on 02/07/2013 8:28:10 PM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

(/sarc)


2 posted on 02/07/2013 8:28:48 PM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

The crucifixion of Christ is a historical fact.


3 posted on 02/07/2013 8:34:10 PM PST by virgil
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

He’s a bad influence. We should have portraits of obama and friends hanging in the entryways.

They should just go ahead and accelerate this crap to conclusion....let’s get it over with.


4 posted on 02/07/2013 8:42:55 PM PST by One Name (Ultimately, the TRUTH is a razor's edge and no man can sit astride it.)
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To: One Name

Chris Rock said Obama is kinda like the “boss” of the country. He’s our dad, so when he talks, you better listen so you don’t get your a_ _ kicked.


5 posted on 02/07/2013 8:44:48 PM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

I`m making a list,
checkin it twice,
gonna find out who`s naughty and nice,
Santa Claus ain`t comin to town


6 posted on 02/07/2013 8:49:24 PM PST by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Marchione.)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin
PRAYER FOR OUR COUNTRY
 
O my Jesus, You said, "verily I say to you, whatsoever you shall ask the Father in My name, He will give it to you."  Behold, in your name I humbly ask our Heavenly Father to protect every man, woman, and child in our great nation from those who want to delete your name from our society, i.e. on our money, in our courts, and in our schools.  Protect us from plans of destruction from which our enemies have plotted. 
 
You, Heavenly Father, are the real foundation of our nation.  I thank you for making me a citizen of this land of freedom and unlimited opportunity...which are the results of its Christian base. 
 
Please surround and protect us, and our military with Your love and mercy...in Jesus' name. 
Amen

7 posted on 02/07/2013 8:49:34 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Nice.


8 posted on 02/07/2013 8:52:49 PM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

The American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio and the Madison, Wis.-based Freedom From Religion Foundation

Sorry that you got our nutcases from Madison, WI involved in this. Apparently they didn’t find enough trouble to cause in WI.


9 posted on 02/07/2013 8:53:44 PM PST by Wisconsinlady (The 2nd amendment is NOT about hunting-but protection from a tyrannical govt)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

The ACLU can go # itself. That operation does not have an objective, impartial view of the 1st Amendment evidenced by at least the recent Benghazi film assault.


10 posted on 02/07/2013 8:55:36 PM PST by Gene Eric (The Palin Doctrine.)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

The real laugh is that what is presented as “Jesus” doesn’t likely look anything like him. Especially the long hair, since Netzers (men descended directly from David) never wore long hair; it was a dishonor.

The ACLU needs to find something else to direct their hatred toward.


11 posted on 02/07/2013 8:55:36 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

We all wish him good luck with that initiative!

Some of us are old enough to not particularly care about what his vision is...


12 posted on 02/07/2013 8:59:22 PM PST by One Name (Ultimately, the TRUTH is a razor's edge and no man can sit astride it.)
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To: Salvation

Many back down from the ACLU for reasons of cost. Given the tens of millions of Conservatives, a liberty defense fund for cases like this shouldn’t be a problem. BTW, Thomas More Law Center does good work.


13 posted on 02/07/2013 8:59:46 PM PST by Gene Eric (The Palin Doctrine.)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

You must understand, this is a very powerful picture! Much like anyone casting a gaze upon Medusa is turned to stone, anyone that so much as glances at this portrayal of Jesus will immediately become Christian. The horror of it all! Take it down now!!!! (just in case </s>)


14 posted on 02/07/2013 9:01:08 PM PST by CanadianYankee (Obamacare, Taxation through misrepresentation)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

And so it will continue - the joke’s on them and they don’t even know it.


15 posted on 02/07/2013 9:02:48 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

Ask the ACLU:

What did Jesus look like?
How do you know?

Since you can’t prove this is a likeness of Jesus, the picture stays!


16 posted on 02/07/2013 9:08:26 PM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

If the school district continues to maintain that the portrait is of Jesus Christ, they are going to lose in court.

If he school district were to claim the it is a portrait of Jesus Gonzalez who was a migrant farm worker back in the 1940’s the ACLU will lose in court.


17 posted on 02/07/2013 9:18:00 PM PST by OKRA2012
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

[[A portrait of Jesus that hangs prominently in an entranceway at a rural Ohio public school is in violation of the U.S. Constitution]]

Really? It’s in violation? Could someone please spell out where exatly it points out that the constitution doesn’t say that congress shall NOT infringe upon ANYONE’S right to freedom of expression? And is that portrait FORCING ANYONE to obey a religion? No? Didn’t think so- THAT is what the cosntitutuion protects against-0 The government FORCING peopel to worship agaisnt hteir will under penalty of the law if they don’t worship- A paintign hanging in a hallway is NOT FORCING anyone- or coercign anyone, to worship anyone-

When the plaintiffs can prove that the school is forcign hte students to worship under penalty of the law IF they refuse, then they have a case- until then- It woudl be really nice if the left woudl grow a friggin spine and stop whining abotu imaginary ficticious injustices-


18 posted on 02/07/2013 9:34:19 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: editor-surveyor
“The ACLU needs to find something else to direct their hatred toward.”

Actually, ridding the U.S. of those freedom-loving, liberty-minded, ruggedly independent, God-fearing Christians is a top priority at the aclu.

In order to take down America they first must eradicate, or at least neuter, those pesky followers of Jesus Christ.

19 posted on 02/07/2013 9:37:30 PM PST by MichaelCorleone (A return to Jesus and prayer in the schools is the only way.)
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To: MichaelCorleone

But in their haste, they are really doing us a favor by taking down a blasphemous idol!

They are thrashing in their darkness.


20 posted on 02/07/2013 10:06:33 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

They should put up a Mad Mo’ pic where he is wearing one of those bomb turbans with a lit fuse.


21 posted on 02/07/2013 10:09:19 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: Las Vegas Dave

Ohio Ping


22 posted on 02/07/2013 10:09:19 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin
"Separation of church and state is one of the nation's oldest traditions," Worner said.

Really! I would think that this country would have many traditions that date before the 1960’s

23 posted on 02/07/2013 10:12:40 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin; All
To begin with, Shroud of Turin issues aside, regarding the portrait in question, some inspired Christian painted Jesus from imagination. In other words, any connection between the painting and Jesus is totally subjective.

Next, regardless what activist justices wanted the country to believe about Thomas Jefferson's "wall of separation" words, the real Thomas Jefferson had clarified the following concerning government power to regulate (cultivate) religious expression. Jefferson had noted that the Founding States had made the 10th Amendment in part to clarify that the states had reserved the power to regulate our freedom of religious expression uniquely to themselves, regardless that the states had made the 1st Amendment to prohibit such powers entirely to Congress.

"3. Resolved that it is true as a general principle and is also expressly declared by one of the amendments to the constitution that ‘the powers not delegated to the US. by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively or to the people’: and that no power over the freedom of religion, freedom of speech, or freedom of the press being delegated to the US. by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, all lawful powers respecting the same did of right remain, & were reserved, to the states or the people: that thus was manifested their determination to retain to themselves the right of judging how far the licentiousness of speech and of the press may be abridged without lessening their useful freedom, and how far those abuses which cannot be separated from their use should be tolerated rather than the use be destroyed (emphasis added); …" --Thomas Jefferson, Kentucky Resolutions, 1798.

And regardless that Sec. 1 of the 14th Amendment applied constitutionally protected privileges and immunities to the states, John Bingham, the main author of Sec. 1, had officially clarified that the 14th Amendment took away no rights that belonged to the states.

"The adoption of the proposed amendment will take from the States no rights (emphasis added) that belong to the States." --John Bingham, Appendix to the Congressional Globe, 1866. (last paragraph of first column)

"No right (emphasis added) reserved by the Constitution to the States should be impaired…" --John Bingham, Appendix to the Congressional Globe, 1871. (first or second paragraph of first column, depending on how you count paragraphs.)

"Do gentlemen say that by so legislating we would strike down the rights of the State? God forbid. I believe our dual system of government essential to our national existance." --John Bingham, Appendix to the Congressional Globe (second paragraph from bottom in third column)

So not only had Jefferson clarified that the states had retained uniquely to themselves the power to regulate religious expression within reason, power now limited by the honest interpretation of the 14th Amendment instead of how activist justices have spun it, but Bingham had clarified in general that the states sill had this power.

So the Jesus portrait is constitutional, imo, as long as it doesn't violate anybody's 14th Amendment protections. I'm sure that atheists can ignore portrait just like Christian students undoubtedly do.

24 posted on 02/07/2013 10:25:04 PM PST by Amendment10
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To: G Larry
Ask the ACLU: What did Jesus look like?

Obama

How do you know?

Jamie Foxx said so /s

25 posted on 02/07/2013 10:40:26 PM PST by teacherwoes ("I saw under the sun in the place of judgment wickedness, and in the place of justice iniquity.")
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To: Amendment10
I have a suggestion. Nothing in the Constitution bars the state from doing anything not directly enumerated to the federal government. You could end this type of bullsh!t pretty quickly if the school district simply refused federal cheese. Then it would not be a federal issue and the diseased acllu would not have standing.

The constitution explicitly states that the fed cannot establish a religion or deny freedom of religion. It doesn't say anything about what states can do.One way to disentangle ourselves from the beast that is Washington is to stop accepting their money.

In order to make up the cash loss simply encumber a portion of the locally generated federal revenues. In opther words, keep the locally generated money and cut the fed out of the loop.

BTW:Make sure your state militias and the state national guard are up to speed first.

26 posted on 02/07/2013 10:48:42 PM PST by lafroste
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

Jesus is their enemy. It’s as simple as that. There are all sorts of religious references throughout our society. Jesus is singled out for special treatment for a reason.


27 posted on 02/07/2013 10:51:09 PM PST by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

Freedom From Religion Foundation: Oy vey gang and Ron Reagan

I can recall a time when they would not be so rude


28 posted on 02/07/2013 11:00:33 PM PST by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

FFRF board:

Ron Reagan, media commentator, describes himself in a radio ad he taped for FFRF as: “Unabashed atheist, not afraid of burning in hell.”

Richard Dawkins, probably the world’s most famous contemporary atheist and a distinguished evolutionary biologist, is Oxford professor emeritus. In his blockbuster book, The God Delusion, Dawkins writes: “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction.”

Rebecca Newberger Goldstein, author of 36 Arguments For the Existence of God: A Work of Fiction and a research associate in Harvard’s psychology department, is FFRF Freethought Heroine of 2011. Goldstein is a 1996 MacArthur Fellow (the “genius” award). She has taught at Barnard and in the Columbia MFA writing program and the Rutgers philosophy department. She’s been a visiting scholar at Brandeis and at Trinity College in Hartford.

Julia Sweeney, comedian and actress, is writer/performer of the play, “Letting Go of God”: “How dare the religious use the term ‘born again.’ That truly describes freethinkers who’ve thrown off the shackles of religion so much better!”

Daniel C. Dennett is Austin B. Fletcher Professor of Philosophy, Tufts, and author of the bestselling book about religion, Breaking the Spell. In a newspaper article about his nonbelief, Dennett once wrote: “I’ve come to realize it’s time to sound the alarm.”

Katha Pollitt, “Subject to Debate” columnist for The Nation, author and poet, has spoken out regularly and energetically as a freethinker, in such columns as “Freedom From Religion, Sí!”

Steven Pinker, Johnstone Professor of Psychology, Harvard, is author of The Blank Slate: “I never outgrew my conversion to atheist at 13.”

Oliver Sacks, M.D., the compassionate neurologist and bestselling author, describes himself as “an old Jewish atheist.”

Jennifer Michael Hecht, poet, historian and author of the acclaimed Doubt: A History and The End of the Soul, told the FFRF 2009 convention audience: “If there is no god — and there isn’t — then we [humans] made up morality. And I’m very impressed.”

Edward Sorel, satiric cartoonist and irreverent illustrator who is a regular contributor to The Atlantic, The New Yorker, and whose caricatures have been exhibited at the National Portrait Gallery, has been a Foundation member since the 1980s.

Mike Newdow is working pro bono to challenge such violations as the addition of “under God” to the Pledge of Allegiance. He told the U.S. Supreme Court during oral arguments: “I am an atheist. I don’t believe in God. And every school morning my child is asked to stand up, face that flag, put her hand over her heart, and say that her father is wrong.”

Robert Sapolsky, a neurologist, Stanford professor and bestselling author, once suggested FFRF put up a sign at its conventions: “Welcome, hellbound atheists.”

Ernie Harburg, a retired research scientist, is president of Yip Harburg Foundation and co-author of Who Put the Rainbow in the Wizard of Oz? Ernie has dedicated his retirement to furthering the lyrics, music, memory and progressive views of his freethinking father, the lyricist Yip Harburg, author of classic songs such as “Somewhere Over the Rainbow” and of Rhymes for the Irreverent, recently republished by FFRF.

Susan Jacoby, bestselling author of Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism, and program director of the Center for Inquiry-New York City, told FFRF convention-goers in 2004: “[President] Kennedy had to speak about his religion because he was suspected of insufficient dedication to the Constitution’s separation of church and state. Today’s candidates are suspect if they display too much dedication to secular government.”


29 posted on 02/07/2013 11:04:55 PM PST by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

The Taliban smashing statues got nuthin on the ACLU.


30 posted on 02/07/2013 11:25:05 PM PST by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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To: wardaddy
For people that don't believe in God, they really spend an inordinate amount of time and money fighting against a "fairy tale".

I don't believe in the Easter Bunny, but I'm not going to waste even 30 seconds of my valuable day to go punch the guy in the costume at the mall.

Or if McGruff the crime dog showed up at a public school I wouldn't "sue" over what I consider a fictional character.

McGruff doesn't scare me. For some reason a picture of Jesus really scares this group.

31 posted on 02/07/2013 11:27:41 PM PST by boop ("You don't look so bad, here's another")
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To: wardaddy

If there is no God and it’s all nonsense as the quoted atheists propose, then what’s the big deal? A picture of an imaginary character named Jesus who’s the son of a God that doesn’t even exist? Again, what’s the big deal for a true atheist?

I, for example, find Christ to be quite credible. I can’t prove Christ was right, but I think His points at least deserve a fair hearing. Personally? I think He described this world very accurately and provided excellent examples, the parables, as to why things work the way they do. So I could be wrong, but I believe Him. On the other hand, I don’t want to squash atheists or agnostics who disagree with me. They’re entitled to believe as they wish. All I ask is for the same courtesy.


32 posted on 02/08/2013 12:05:59 AM PST by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
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To: boop
I once had a Christian friend who said he believed simply because so many other people had a visceral dislike of all things Christian. The more emotional they behaved and tried to silence Christians, the more he believed. Why? The way he explained it, something that inspired so much irrational animosity in people HAD to be real. I think it was an interesting point.
33 posted on 02/08/2013 12:13:39 AM PST by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

A portrait of Jesus that hangs prominently in an entranceway at a rural Ohio public school is in violation of the U.S. Constitution

WHY? Read the Constitution. Its not in there............


34 posted on 02/08/2013 4:59:25 AM PST by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the American Revolution 2013 and the Crusades 2013?)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

I studied Constitutional law in law school, and I understand First Amendment jurisprudence— I have come to disagree with most of it. I respect the law and the courts, but the chain of opinions on religious freedom have eviscerated the plain meaning of the provisions, which read:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;...”

This is the very first right protected in the Bill of Rights. To me that suggests its importance to our founding fathers.

We have now devolved into squabbles about posting a painting of Jesus Christ. No action by Congress; No law; No establishment of religion— no consideration of the second clause about freedom of religion “...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;...”

It is time to go back and read the First Amendment, then analyze the case law that purports to interpret it, and RESCIND all cases that veer away from the simple words used in BOTH the establishment clause and the free exercise clause.


35 posted on 02/08/2013 5:12:44 AM PST by NCLaw441
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

The ACLU and the WFFRF don’t even know what Jesus looks like.
No one knows what Jesus looked like.


36 posted on 02/08/2013 6:59:31 AM PST by RolandTignor
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To: editor-surveyor

By ‘blasphemous idol’ you are referring to the picture of Jesus?


37 posted on 02/08/2013 7:12:08 AM PST by MichaelCorleone (A return to Jesus and prayer in the schools is the only way.)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

To be fair if we remove the picture of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (Praise Him forever!) then any public building that has a portrait of Trojan horse Hussein, the ACLU’s lord and savior (Let his works be promptly and soundly halted!) remove it, as he is the head of their religion. Keeping his portrait in a building promotes the worship of his religion: Marxist Nazi Communism where government if god.


38 posted on 02/08/2013 10:32:32 AM PST by Repent and Believe (Promote good. Tolerate the harmless. Let evil be crushed.)
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To: MichaelCorleone

I’m talking about the blasphemous idol that the idolators chose to call “Jesus.”

It obviously is not “Jesus.”


39 posted on 02/08/2013 12:37:06 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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