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General: Heart attack killed a suffering Chavez ("I don't want to die" his last words)
My Way News (AP) ^ | Mar 7, 5:35 AM (ET) | FABIOLA SANCHEZ

Posted on 03/07/2013 4:27:10 AM PST by MuttTheHoople

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To: MuttTheHoople

Cancer spares no one - christians, non-christian alike. Being a christian does not spare one any suffering on this earth.


81 posted on 03/07/2013 7:45:32 AM PST by plain talk
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To: MuttTheHoople

He didn’t want to die because the Devil was whispering in his ear.


82 posted on 03/07/2013 7:47:54 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: liberalh8ter

My distinct pleasure to have you do so. It’s well-worth reading.


83 posted on 03/07/2013 7:50:34 AM PST by Carriage Hill (AR-10s & AR-15s Are The 21st Century's Muskets. Free Men Need Not Ask Permission!)
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To: Joshua
And the thief on the cross? How much penance did he have to do before he went to Paradise that day?

First, he was nailed to the cross. Probably not a pleasant experience.

Then, after hanging on the cross for nine hours, he had his legs broken by rods. Also, not very pleasant.

He then hung there until he suffocated. That, also probably didn't feel too good.

So, I'd say he suffered quite a bit before going to paradise.

But, the first thing he did was to ask Christ to remember him, which is to say he asked for forgiveness and it was granted. But, he still had to suffer before receiving his eternal reward.

84 posted on 03/07/2013 8:22:58 AM PST by Ol' Dan Tucker (People should not be afraid of the government. Government should be afraid of the people)
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker

See my post #67 - except you explained it way better!! Clearly the thief suffered the excrutiating death of crucifixion!! If that doesn’t constitute penance, I don’t what does.


85 posted on 03/07/2013 8:39:26 AM PST by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: Gumdrop

Well we have no idea what we said, thought or did over the last several months. One cannot rule out a fullblown conversion. From his previous statements and actions it seems unlikely. But none of us really knows who goes to heaven or hell.

Also even if one goes to heaven does not preclude them for being held accoutable for their life as mentioned in the Bible. So there are unknown consequences of sin even for those saved. One cannot fully game the system, live like hitler, confess at the end and have zero consequences. I don’t see support in the scripture for such a “gaming the system” model.


86 posted on 03/07/2013 8:57:44 AM PST by plain talk
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To: stonehouse01

meant excruciating


87 posted on 03/07/2013 8:58:35 AM PST by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: plain talk
One cannot fully game the system, live like hitler, confess at the end and have zero consequences. I don’t see support in the scripture for such a “gaming the system” model.

True, but even the thief with his last minute plea joined Jesus in paradise.

88 posted on 03/07/2013 8:59:44 AM PST by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; Bulwyf; NELSON111; Starstruck; tx_eggman; NCLaw441; Old Yeller; ...
Interesting discussion by all, excepting the occasional outbreak of anti-Roman Catholic bigotry. [Am not a Roman Catholic, but a traditional, conservative Christian, not of the evangelical or pre-millenial dispensationalist persuasion.]

Appreciate particularly the backup and Scripture references from stonehouse01. The thief on the cross and the workers in the vineyard can, in my view, be considered penitent. And perhaps there is forgiveness after this life (only one way any of us will ever know).

And yes, we are saved by Christ's sacrifice and our belief in a Triune God. But after our confession and acceptance, are we not called to walk in a better way, even though we never are able to do so very well? I worry these days about the smug self-righteousness of “feel good” Christianity: I'm saved by the Blood, and now I can continue living my consequence-free life, with no atonement for my sins. My get-out-of-jail-free card allows me to do this. Can we afterward commit acts so heinous (e.g., genocide) that we lose our salvation?

A question for the next round.

89 posted on 03/07/2013 10:32:28 AM PST by twister881
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker

So, I’d say he suffered quite a bit before going to paradise.


So let’s use your logic. If I get hit by a car, ask God’s forgiveness, and suffer in the street for an hour I’ve probably done enough penance, by your standards. If I jump off a curb see the car coming and call for salvation and I’m killed instantly I’m in trouble.

This shows the idiocy of your skewed theology.
Simple, if you need to do anything for your salvation it means Christ’s sacrifice wasn’t enough. Sorry I don’t worship an incapable God as you seem to.


90 posted on 03/07/2013 10:42:00 AM PST by Joshua
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To: Joshua
Simple, if you need to do anything for your salvation it means Christ’s sacrifice wasn’t enough.

I'm guessing you have to accept Christ's sacrifice, at the very least.

91 posted on 03/07/2013 11:28:25 AM PST by Trailerpark Badass (So?)
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To: twister881
I'm saved by the Blood, and now I can continue living my consequence-free life, with no atonement for my sins. My get-out-of-jail-free card allows me to do this. Can we afterward commit acts so heinous (e.g., genocide) that we lose our salvation?

God knew who we were and what we would become when he called us to be His children. We either are or are not a child of God. I may have failed at times, but I always tried to make my physical father proud of me. I also try to make my spiritual Father proud of me. Like my physical father's love, God's greater love is able to forgive my shortcomings. I doubt that those who would later commit genocide were ever called. However, remember that Paul, who was headed in that direction, was called.

92 posted on 03/07/2013 11:55:49 AM PST by Starstruck (I need a 30 round magazine because liberal whine gives me a buzz.)
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To: Starstruck
So you didn't choose to accept Christ's salvation freely and consciously?

It was imposed on you?

93 posted on 03/07/2013 12:16:51 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass (So?)
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To: Trailerpark Badass
So you didn't choose to accept Christ's salvation freely and consciously? It was imposed on you?

Sorry, I don't get into theological discussions with people who choose to rebut

The most important, and first, component of penance is contrition. But, I would suppose you consider THAT a "filthy rag."

94 posted on 03/07/2013 12:42:44 PM PST by Starstruck (I need a 30 round magazine because liberal whine gives me a buzz.)
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To: Starstruck
How convenient.

have a nice day.

95 posted on 03/07/2013 12:45:18 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass (So?)
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To: Joshua
This shows the idiocy of your skewed theology.

Idiocy? How about we keep this discussion on a civilized level instead of descending into personal insults?

96 posted on 03/07/2013 12:48:48 PM PST by Ol' Dan Tucker (People should not be afraid of the government. Government should be afraid of the people)
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To: Starstruck

The most important, and first, component of penance is contrition. But, I would suppose you consider THAT a “filthy rag.”


Yes I would. The only obligation to man was to accept and trust. And if I were you I would adhere to your rule and stay out of theological discussions. In all do respect you bring nothing to the debate except Catholic/human dogma.
You are trying to debate Christianity using religion. Two totally different subjects that you apparently fail to grasp. Seriously, if I wanted to discuss the folly of religion I’d debate a priest. Go bother someone else


97 posted on 03/07/2013 5:58:03 PM PST by Joshua
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To: MuttTheHoople

because he loved his country??

not nearly as much as he loved Cuba

He didn’t want to die, he had so much loot to spend!


98 posted on 03/07/2013 6:04:28 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

According to the Gospels....yes.


But how about the human ruling body that granted itself the power to interpret the gospels? Surely you don’t claim that power? /sarc/


99 posted on 03/07/2013 6:06:12 PM PST by Joshua
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To: Buckeye McFrog

According to the Gospels....yes.


But how about the human ruling body that granted itself the power to interpret the gospels? Surely you don’t claim that power? /sarc/


100 posted on 03/07/2013 6:07:46 PM PST by Joshua
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