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The Coming Collapse of the Middle East?
Slate ^ | March 11, 2013 | Fred kaplan

Posted on 03/12/2013 5:45:40 AM PDT by lbryce

On Feb. 26, 2003, President George W. Bush gave a speech at the American Enterprise Institute, spelling out what he saw as the link between freedom and security in the Middle East. “A liberated Iraq,” he said, “can show the power of freedom to transform that vital region” by serving “as a dramatic and inspiring example … for other nations in the region.”

(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: bush; hussein; iraq; iraqwar
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I am no expert on this by any means and I'm sure many might disagree with what I have to say on this. I am sure I omitted many other factors but I'm doing this on the run and have provided what I believe about the war just on a topical level.

This article has two separate teasers to get you to read it. The one that had me follow the article was "The One Book the Bush Administration Should Have Read Before Invading Iraq" and the other, "Why Didn’t the Iraq War Remake the Arab World the Way Bush Thought It Would?

There are many reasons why the Iraq War didn't remake the Arab World the way Bush thought it would.

The Arabs themselves weren't particularly gung ho about the war from the first place. The Bush Administration was overwhelmingly, woefully naive about what they were fighting for, what could go wrong, and really had no end real game plan. It was all almost as if the entire war was an afterthought. like a bunch of guys bored on a Sunday afternoon that randomly end up playing a few hoops. Basically, they didn't know what they were getting themselves into, mostly due to not knowing enough about the Arab Jihadist mindset, Arab, Muslim history, that socially they don't understand peace, are not interested in peace as if it is almost an anathema to them.

Absent a modern, thriving society, and much less a thriving economy, has them mired in the 7th Century dreaming of their glorious past desperate to have it return.

The UN puts out a yearly report on the state of the Arab Muslim world with a 2% literacy rate and except for oil, the GNP of 200 million Arabs is less than or equal to that of Holland.

Bush seemeed to have lost interest in the war (Mission:Accomplished. The lockdown Saddam had secured in keeping the myriad factions and groups under control became transformed overnight into a huge powder keg, and the prospect of Jihad provided unlimited manpower as resources for fighters and suicide bombings,increased enthusiasm that a religious war has. Lastly, the area is mostly Shi'ite (this is where Khomeini spent his days among the Shi'ite community after being exiled) and the strong support provided by Iran combined with the local Iraqi Shi'ites helped seal the war in favor of Iran.

1 posted on 03/12/2013 5:45:40 AM PDT by lbryce
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To: lbryce
If we were going to invade a Middle Eastern country, it should've been Iran. Those sumbitches have been a pain in the ass since Ayatollah Khomeni took power. It was time to get some payback for taking our people hostage, for the Beirut bombings, for fomenting Islamic terrorism, and just being jackasses.

Iraq and the other Arab countries would've fallen in line, and probably given the U.S. free oil for the next 25 years in gratitude.

2 posted on 03/12/2013 5:52:55 AM PDT by MuttTheHoople (Pray for Joe Biden- Proverbs 29:9)
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To: MuttTheHoople

What should we have done? Well, a coherent national energy policy not beholden to special interests (including the Arabs) would have been a good start. It would certainly have given us a free hand in our policy there.

After 9/11 we had to “do something.” Going into Afghanistan was a good idea, so long as it was to depose the Taliban, and kill as many terrorists based there as possible. The mistake was in staying. We should have just left them to their own devices after doling out some punishment. Oh sure, some day we would have to do it again. But staying permanently was a really bad idea.

We should have left Iraq alone.


3 posted on 03/12/2013 6:01:19 AM PDT by henkster (I have one more cow than my neighbor. I am a kulak.)
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To: lbryce

4 posted on 03/12/2013 6:05:15 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: MuttTheHoople

I believe that once you decide to fight a hot war, you do it WWII style. Take no prisoners.

But in the middle east I would add a twist:

First, you wipe out all powerful physical forces.
Then you write off all adult muslims and male children over the age of ten. They all go to a separate walled off state in which they would spend their entire life. The camp would ahve no mosques but would have Christian churches.

The rest of the country would see all of its mosques ether destroyed or used for something else, maybe churches.

But everything I just posted is ridiculous, for it violates the very core principles I hold as a Christian. There is no human solution to Islam other than somehow preventing them from killing and maiming those that disagree with them. How do you do that without simply wiping out their entire culture and colonizing the area?

God will take care of it, eventually.


5 posted on 03/12/2013 6:06:09 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: MuttTheHoople

And the funny thing about Iran is that racially they are Arian.


6 posted on 03/12/2013 6:08:17 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: MuttTheHoople

I nominate you for Sec of State!


7 posted on 03/12/2013 6:09:25 AM PDT by FES0844
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To: MuttTheHoople; lbryce

There is a reason why historians refer to the Middle East as “the graveyard of empires”.

There are no real nations there. The governments are run like ‘Mafia-style’ family cliques; a head guy and his family dominates everyone else in the local area. Sometimes a “king” evolves and can convince enough of the local ‘Mafia-style’ families to join up and form a federation of sorts. But it is a very unstable way to govern and everyone is suspicious of everyone else. These relationships shift around like wind-blown sand. Double crosses are common; so are asassinations.

The worst thing Westerners can do is try to be someone’s ally. In the Middle East that is tantamount to seeking to overthrow one of the ‘Mafia-families’, and so they always deal “dishonestly” with Westerners. Trust is definitely missing in foreign relations when dealing with Arabs.

The people there are going to have to change from the inside. They are going to have to want to change, and the primary obstruction is Islam.


8 posted on 03/12/2013 6:14:05 AM PDT by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: cuban leaf
There is no human solution to Islam

Maybe not but if I had the authority I'd start with a complete deregulation of the energy industry in America. Also, there's nothing inhumane about border security and immigration quotas.

9 posted on 03/12/2013 6:17:15 AM PDT by HomeAtLast ( You're either with the Tea Party, or you're with the EBT Party.)
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To: lbryce

I’ve documented this in my book - describe why the whole region is unstable and why it’s going to be a national security concern for us...check the website - plus I’m not in it for the money - I count on getting the right information to The People - and let them decide their own course of action...http://babylonscovertwar.com/index.html


10 posted on 03/12/2013 6:18:13 AM PDT by BCW (http://babylonscovertwar.com/index.html)
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To: cuban leaf
I believe that once you decide to fight a hot war, you do it WWII style. Take no prisoners.

But in the middle east I would add a twist:

First, you wipe out all powerful physical forces. Then you write off all adult muslims and male children over the age of ten. They all go to a separate walled off state in which they would spend their entire life. The camp would ahve no mosques but would have Christian churches.

The rest of the country would see all of its mosques ether destroyed or used for something else, maybe churches.

But everything I just posted is ridiculous, for it violates the very core principles I hold as a Christian. There is no human solution to Islam other than somehow preventing them from killing and maiming those that disagree with them. How do you do that without simply wiping out their entire culture and colonizing the area?

God will take care of it, eventually.

How do we know if we are not the means God will use to handle it?

In the OT God commanded his people to utterly destroy the nations that were in the promised land. Why? So that their sins would not infect God's people. God had no problem with genocide.

We are in the middle of a religious war. Islam has commanded its followers to fight against us until the last moslem dies or the last non-moslem dies.

Eradicating islam, by whatever means necessary, up to and including nuking the entire mideast and everyone in it (with the exception of Israel of course), is not only self defense but is also defense of the innocents that islam is destroying.

I like your segregation idea, but we need to make sure that no copy of the koran exists anywhere and that no child is allowed to be instructed in it. (under penalty of death). I truly expect Jesus to come back before this can be done, but I'm not writing the idea off entirely until Jesus gets here.

11 posted on 03/12/2013 6:23:00 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: BCW

Very impressive website. I perused through the pages and it seems to be a very good read. I’ve bookmarked it and will be spending time with it over the next few days. Good luck!


12 posted on 03/12/2013 6:23:22 AM PDT by lbryce (BHO:"Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds by way Oppenheiner at Trinity NM)
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To: henkster

I was dumb enough to think that the US was delberately surrounding Iran by going into Afghanistan and then Iraq, but I guess I overestimated our government


13 posted on 03/12/2013 6:26:44 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: HomeAtLast

Maybe not but if I had the authority I’d start with a complete deregulation of the energy industry in America. Also, there’s nothing inhumane about border security and immigration quotas.


Your post reminds me of what I read back in the late 1990’s: Political Correctness will be our destroyer.


14 posted on 03/12/2013 6:29:01 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: John O

How do we know if we are not the means God will use to handle it?


Well, that was the Crusaders’ mindset.


15 posted on 03/12/2013 6:34:07 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: John O

In the OT God commanded his people to utterly destroy the nations that were in the promised land. Why? So that their sins would not infect God’s people. God had no problem with genocide.


Yes, but that was under a different covenant.


16 posted on 03/12/2013 6:34:50 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: John O

We are in the middle of a religious war. Islam has commanded its followers to fight against us until the last moslem dies or the last non-moslem dies.


With that I agree. That is why I’ve said, since 2011, that we need to treat Islam in the US as we treated the German-American Bund during WWII. Islam needs to be classified as a political organization, rather than religious.


17 posted on 03/12/2013 6:36:05 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: John O

Eradicating islam, by whatever means necessary, up to and including nuking the entire mideast and everyone in it (with the exception of Israel of course), is not only self defense but is also defense of the innocents that islam is destroying.


As much as I’d like to do that, it’s just not that simple. It’s why I believe, ultimately, God is the one that will sort this out. The hands of Christians are tied on this. The bible is pretty clear about how to treat your enemies and, of great importance, is the Christian foundational belief that the individual is king. That is, your relationship with Christ is between you and him. It is personal. There is no “the masses”. There are only individual people. It means we treat our enemies similarly. We can fight them on the battlefield but we can’t simply wipe out a city because we know the people will someday be suicidal muslims. This would not end well for our self perception as a culture.

Frankly, the only human solution is to simply kill all muslims. And to advocate that makes one sound eerily similar to the radical muslims.


18 posted on 03/12/2013 6:40:34 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: John O

I like your segregation idea, but we need to make sure that no copy of the koran exists anywhere and that no child is allowed to be instructed in it. (under penalty of death). I truly expect Jesus to come back before this can be done, but I’m not writing the idea off entirely until Jesus gets here.


This touches on where I think this whole thing will go.


19 posted on 03/12/2013 6:41:28 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: cuban leaf

I’m not a fan of Ann Coulter, but she had it right way back when she said we should kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.

Of course, the sniveling editors at the NR canned her column because of it.


20 posted on 03/12/2013 6:41:38 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker

I’m not a fan of Ann Coulter, but she had it right way back when she said we should kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.


I was all over that. ;-)


21 posted on 03/12/2013 6:44:47 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: henkster
What should we have done? Well, a coherent national energy policy not beholden to special interests (including the Arabs) would have been a good start. It would certainly have given us a free hand in our policy there.

That is exactly how Reagan defeated the Soviet empire; he cut off the cash flow.

22 posted on 03/12/2013 6:54:51 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be "protected" by government.)
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To: SatinDoll
The people there are going to have to change from the inside. They are going to have to want to change, and the primary obstruction is Islam.

Your summation of "the way things are" in the mideast is spot-on, IMO. It was foolish of Bush to think that the mideast Muslims would welcome "freedom". To them, "freedom" means the right to Talibanism, Wahabbi-ism and 9-year old brides.

IMO, the Irag war was supposed to be about deposing Saddam because a loose cannon with WMD was not allowable in a post 9/11 world. After the statue of Saddam was pulled down, Bush should have had his "mission: accomplished" moment. The only nation-building we should have done would have been to install a kinder and gentler Shah of Iran type of government.

23 posted on 03/12/2013 7:01:21 AM PDT by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: Sans-Culotte
It was foolish of Bush to think that the mideast Muslims would welcome "freedom".

It was worse than foolish.

It was an insult to our culture and the ancestors who built it.

It was an affront to history.

Makes me madder every time I think about it.

24 posted on 03/12/2013 7:05:00 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (So?)
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To: yldstrk
I was dumb enough to think that the US was delberately surrounding Iran by going into Afghanistan and then Iraq, but I guess I overestimated our government

That was my hope as well.

I don't like feeling like a fool.

25 posted on 03/12/2013 7:07:33 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (So?)
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To: cuban leaf
But everything I just posted is ridiculous, for it violates the very core principles I hold as a Christian. There is no human solution to Islam other than somehow preventing them from killing and maiming those that disagree with them. How do you do that without simply wiping out their entire culture and colonizing the area?

It was oil which allowed a dysfunctional Islam to continue. Oil and foreign aid. It allows despots to be wealthy, and subsidize radical mosques and madrasahs to propagate radical Islam.

When Muslim clans depend upon the support of their Westernized educated members, then the ones earning the incomes will dominate clan discussions, and they will tell the young people of the clan "put away those Qurans and study engineering, finance, and medicine, or your allowances get cut off".

26 posted on 03/12/2013 7:14:51 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: lbryce

How to win a religious war in one step:

Destroy the other side’s most venerated religious symbol utterly.

In the case of Islam, allah is the supreme god, is all powerful, and has predetermined everything - down to the subatomic scale.

Allah is embodied in the stone at Mecca. Destroy that - allah is instantly discredited as the supreme god and shown not to be able to control anything.

When asked - shortly after 9/11 - what would they do if Mecca was destroyed, jihadis replied that allah would be discredited, and they would variously become Christian, Jews, or atheists. They added that there was no way they would humiliate themselves by praying to a discredited god. Asked if that action would make them mad and want vengeance, they said, no. For what? Allah was a false god and not to be respected or revenged for allah’s deceit. (This interview was posted somewhere on the web at the time.)

The best way, as the jihadis would see it, would be to make a huge statement without warning, like 9/11. The best way to accomplish this, from the Western point of view, would be without warning to take out Mecca during the ‘haj’ with a modestly small thermonuclear weapon.

The radioactive spot would continue to remind former jihadis of their humiliation and of the false god, allah.

The near total loss of Saudi oil would be made up, in time, by other nations, principally Russia and the US.

While many here and elsewhere would decry this as bloodthirsty and vile, the upshot would be to end over 20 wars the jihadis are currently engaged in fighting against their neighbors merely because they are not muslims.

There is no way, as others here have noted, to talk them out of continuing to wage war until everyone on Earth is muslim (Sunni), or conversely until everyone on Earth is brought to Paradise (Radical Shiia).

The choice for the Western world is to continue in a hodgepodge fashion, fighting one group here and another group there for generations, or take the bull by the horns and end it quickly as cleanly as possible.


27 posted on 03/12/2013 7:19:57 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: lbryce

I spent a short time in Iraq a couple years ago, working with Arabs from Baghdad and Mosul and Kurds from Southeastern Kurdistan. We had a discussion on the war, and they all pretty much said, “We really appreciate everything America did for us— getting rid of Saddam. But why didn’t you finish the job? Saddam was just one trouble-maker. Iran is an even bigger trouble-maker, sending terrorists and bombs over here.” That is nearly a direct quote.

I was in favor of the war in Iraq, and met and worked with good people who have a much better life and future because of it. But I just don’t think I can support another war like Afghanistan anywhere. We, as a country, have forgotten how to fight to win and go home. Afghanistan has been a waste of blood, treasure, and time. And I really hate saying that, but it’s the truth.

There is also the problem of fighting people groups who inhabit multiple countries, and refusing to fight them in all of those countries. This gets very messy very quickly and is largely why we lost in Vietnam and Korea was a costly stalemate.


28 posted on 03/12/2013 7:34:46 AM PDT by EricT. (The Second Amendment is Tyrant Control.)
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To: Travis McGee

Take off the turbans and those guys would all look like employees at the Duck Dyansty warehouse.


29 posted on 03/12/2013 7:37:09 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: cuban leaf
As much as I’d like to do that, it’s just not that simple. It’s why I believe, ultimately, God is the one that will sort this out. The hands of Christians are tied on this. The bible is pretty clear about how to treat your enemies and, of great importance, is the Christian foundational belief that the individual is king. That is, your relationship with Christ is between you and him. It is personal. There is no “the masses”. There are only individual people. It means we treat our enemies similarly. We can fight them on the battlefield but we can’t simply wipe out a city because we know the people will someday be suicidal muslims. This would not end well for our self perception as a culture.

Thank you for that. I completely agree.

I also think that calling for the death of all Muslims is a dangerous, evil oversimplification. The truth is that most are not suicide bombers. Most are just normal people who want to be left to live their lives in peace, but live in a constant state of fear from all sides. That is why dishonesty is so rampant in the Middle East. Nobody really trusts anyone else. They go along with the mob because the mob will kill them if they don't sound supportive enough. Get most of them alone, and they would just as soon have a pleasant discussion with you over some nice tea and Kebab.

30 posted on 03/12/2013 7:49:30 AM PDT by EricT. (The Second Amendment is Tyrant Control.)
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To: SatinDoll

bingo

we used to say you (the US) can’t buy (the loyalty of) an arab, you can only rent one

just look at what is is now costing us to rent just Egypt

we (the West) are going to have to come with terms that some of our species are brutes who will be ruled by despots and who will live under genocide and casual acceptance of killing and murder (”honor” and “Martyrdom”)

we basically have to let them

However, when they come over here and kill us we have to respond and kill them back

But we MUST draw the line at letting them emigrate here and colonize their social and religious insanity among us while we “tolerate” it


31 posted on 03/12/2013 8:02:22 AM PDT by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: lbryce

The problems in the middle east are going to wonders for my new line of bullet proof burkas, available in a wide variety of Arab Spring colors. Many women will enjoy the handy little pocket inside to hold personal items as well as a cell phone, also know as a detonating device.


32 posted on 03/12/2013 8:05:16 AM PDT by stormryter
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To: lbryce

the maps of numerous middle east ‘countries’ should
be re-drawn.

Bush-43 could have been
(for Iraq and A-stan)
the new Radcliffe of India,
but chose not to be.

opportunity lost.


33 posted on 03/12/2013 8:05:30 AM PDT by RockyTx
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To: cuban leaf

It’s both. The politics are driven by the religion. You cannot separate the two. I have been over in the Mid East and I can see no sane way to get rid of Islam. We can’t just wipe out 2 billion people.


34 posted on 03/12/2013 8:14:34 AM PDT by USAF80
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To: lbryce

Liberty & Freedom are a direct threat to islam.


35 posted on 03/12/2013 8:19:45 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: USAF80

Medved pointed out some interesting perspectives several years ago pointing out why Islam is so dangerous. He described three religions within the coarse categories of “evangelism” and “politics” as follows:

Christianity: Evangelistic but not political. It wants everyone to be a member but it does not tell it’s members how to live. It is the poster child of the concept of “spirit of the law” leaving every member to choose how they respond to the world and events, looking to the example of Christ as the appropriate action - while acknowledging peoples propensity to not always do the right thing.

Judaism: Political but not evangelistic. Judaism has very strict rules to which its members are to adhere. It is a “letter of the law” type of religion. But it is not evangelistic. If you are not a part of it they really don’t care what you do. You are “outside” their rules.

Islam: Both VERY evangelical and VERY politicl. Islam wants ALL people on earth to be a member and people are to be punished or even killed if they refuse to be a member. Likewise, it is political to the point that it tells you which foot to use to enter a room. And you can be killed for not obeying the rules.

Above is why my tagline used to be “Islam is more dangerous to the world today than Nazism was in the mid-1930’s. I stand by that today.

The one saving grace we have is that Muslims are not like Nazis. If Nazi Germany had the religion of Islam as part of it’s charter, the whole world would be Nazi today. Actual muslims are, frankly, kinda dumb. Thank God.


36 posted on 03/12/2013 8:29:14 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: lbryce
In my humble opinion, Islam is allowed to and even encouraged to grow because, as simplistic as it sounds, it is the template that the globalists are using for a world government. Why is Sharia law allowed to exist in enclaves in western countries? It is a cancer that is expected to grow and develop.

Dissent and non-obedience to the tenets of Islam is dealt with harshly. Do not think for a moment that the desire of our current "leaders"(?) doesn't contain a lust for this type of domination.

Lastly, the demographics are not in favor of western culture.We in the west are literally half a decade away from being minorities in our own lands. If the western cultures continue to accept the belief that Islam will de-radicalize as it confronts our western culture, then prepare to take that belief to your grave.

37 posted on 03/12/2013 8:29:19 AM PDT by free from tyranny
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To: TexasCajun

Liberty & Freedom are a direct threat to islam.


The US constitution and Islam are like oil and water. This speaks to the future.


38 posted on 03/12/2013 8:29:59 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: lbryce

Slate...... pure propaganda, no substance, presstitute refugee detritus


39 posted on 03/12/2013 8:31:09 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 .....The fairest Deduction to be reduced is the Standard Deduction)
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To: USAF80

You cannot separate the two. I have been over in the Mid East and I can see no sane way to get rid of Islam. We can’t just wipe out 2 billion people.


That is how I see it as well. And since we can’t just wipe out 2 billion people, we’re sort of stuck in the “Israel/Palestine” cycle, but on a global scale and not quite so accute.


40 posted on 03/12/2013 8:31:36 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: cuban leaf; USAF80

unmentioned and never considered are those who are not fanatic wackos. They are the body of Islam.


41 posted on 03/12/2013 8:35:05 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 .....The fairest Deduction to be reduced is the Standard Deduction)
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To: cuban leaf

Crappola,
Israel should just Nuke about 15 or 20 moosie population centers and be over with it.


42 posted on 03/12/2013 8:44:02 AM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO))
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To: bert

True but they can be. The religion creates what we call wackos or fanatics. This is why all the typical Muslim countries have bans on outside information. They keep them dumb and feed them a bunch of lies.


43 posted on 03/12/2013 8:44:25 AM PDT by USAF80
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To: bert

unmentioned and never considered are those who are not fanatic wackos. They are the body of Islam.


I’ve worked beside quite a few of them. Problem is that I see every single one of them as sleepers.


44 posted on 03/12/2013 8:44:54 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: MuttTheHoople

I have been thinking about this problem since 9/11/01.

We may have to resort to either a blockade and immigration prohibition or colonizing territory.

How about the next time we are attacked, we ID the offending country and take some of their territory? Perhaps a port or resource-rich area? If they keep attacking us, we take more territory.

We make it clear that they are never getting the land back and they will lose more and more until they make permanent peace with the rest of the world.

We need to make war more expensive for them than it is for us.

Its either that or nuke the site from orbit.

Like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s1MspmfEwg


45 posted on 03/12/2013 10:25:31 AM PDT by darth
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To: cuban leaf

We called them Al Qaida wannabees. These are the guys who would be coming over the wire at night but your best buddy during the day. Islam is too much of an influence in their lives.


46 posted on 03/12/2013 10:25:54 AM PDT by USAF80
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To: PIF

I agree with you about wiping Mecca [and the other holy sites for that matter]. Could the mudslimes hate us any worse than they already do? Would their pagan god be discredited? Would they bow to a smoking crater? There’s only one way to find out. Perhaps we could appease the squeamish by using conventional bombs instead of nukes. As other posters have said, killing 2 billion pagans isn’t feasible. Destroying their holiest shrine is.


47 posted on 03/12/2013 3:50:43 PM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: TexasRepublic
“Could the mudslimes hate us any worse than they already do”

No. They stated that their anger would be directed towards those who deceived them, not those who revealed that allah was a false god.

“Would their pagan god be discredited?”
Yes. An all powerful omnipotent god would have not let himself be destroyed in the first place.

“Would they bow to a smoking crater?”
No. Bowing to a crater would just further their humiliation. Humiliation is a big deal in that neck of the woods/desert.

“There’s only one way to find out. Perhaps we could appease the squeamish by using conventional bombs instead of nukes.”

Appease and lose, nuke and win - your choice. In any case, once the jihads kill enough of the vocal squeamish, the hand wringing will cease.

48 posted on 03/13/2013 6:26:49 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: henkster

“Going into Afghanistan was a good idea, so long as it was to depose the Taliban...”

During the Cold War we used to know how to overthrow their dictator and put one of our dictators in their place. Once the Taliban were overthrown, our guys were done. From there we could have thrown $$ and weapons that way and let the CIA handle things. Ah well, woulda, coulda, shoulda.


49 posted on 03/13/2013 12:29:22 PM PDT by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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To: darth

“...next time we are attacked, we ID the offending country and take some of their territory?”

Ok, so imagine the attack takes place and the guilty party is 75% likely to be a shadowy group of Turk and Chechin terrorists based in Hamburg Germany.

What territory does President Darth order the military to take?


50 posted on 03/13/2013 12:45:31 PM PDT by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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