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Extreme poverty is also a violation of human rights, says Argentinean cardinal (New Pope)
Catholic News Agency ^ | Oct 1, 2009 | Staff

Posted on 03/14/2013 6:19:02 AM PDT by LucianOfSamasota

The Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, has called for an ethical response to solve the problem of social debt, saying that, not only do terrorism, repression and murder violate human rights, but also extreme poverty and the “unjust economic structures that give rise to great inequalities.”

Social debt is “immoral, unjust and illegitimate,” the cardinal said, emphasizing that this is especially true when it occurs “in a nation that has the objective conditions for avoiding or correcting such harm.” “Unfortunately,” he noted, it seems that those same countries “opt for exacerbating inequalities even more.”

Argentineans have the duty “to work to change the structural causes and personal or corporate attitudes that give rise to this situation (of poverty), and through dialogue reach agreements that allow us to transform this painful reality we refer to when we speak about social debt,” the prelate said.

(Excerpt) Read more at catholicnewsagency.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
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Cardinal Bergoglio said the challenge to eradicate poverty could not be truthfully met as long as the poor continue to be dependents of the State. The government and other organizations should instead work to create the social conditions that will promote and protect the rights of the poor and enable them to be the builders of their own future, he explained.

The problem of debt and social justice must be of concern to every sector of society, he added, including leaders in government, politics, finance, business, agriculture, industry, unions, the Church and other social organizations.

Not Liberation Theology; but rather a restructuring to allow more opportunity for the working poor? Hard to tell from what I've been able to find thus far.

1 posted on 03/14/2013 6:19:02 AM PDT by LucianOfSamasota
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To: LucianOfSamasota
” Social debt is “immoral, unjust and illegitimate,”

That seems to be very much in line with our founders.

As a very important source of strength and security, cherish public credit. One method of preserving it is, to use it as sparingly as possible; avoiding occasions of expense by cultivating peace, but remembering also that timely disbursements to prepare for danger frequently prevent much greater disbursements to repel it; avoiding likewise the accumulation of debt, not only by shunning occasions of expense, but by vigorous exertions in time of peace to discharge the debts, which unavoidable wars may have occasioned, not ungenerously throwing upon posterity the burthen, which we ourselves ought to bear.

- GEORGE WASHINGTON, Farewell Address, Sep. 17, 1796
2 posted on 03/14/2013 6:25:12 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: LucianOfSamasota

He is not a socialist. But many on the Right act as if we should punish the poor and those who are imprisoned rather than work to help them transform themselves.

If we are hard-hearted we cannot build a decent and just society. We must live as God teaches us to live and set an example through good works to every one, particularly those most in need of it. Compassion and love cannot be built by a government; it can only come from people acting out of fear of God, not out of fear of the state.


3 posted on 03/14/2013 6:25:52 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: LucianOfSamasota

There is no system that exacerbates extreme inequality of opportunity and thus promotes poverty more severely than a Marxist/socialist system. Such a system has been empirically established to consistently and repeatedly impoverish the vast majority of people under its control and concentrates privilege, wealth, and power in the hands of a central few.


4 posted on 03/14/2013 6:26:06 AM PDT by iacovatx (Conservatism is the political center--it is not "right" of center)
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To: LucianOfSamasota
A big issue throughout much of Latin America and the Third World is a question of deeds to property ~ the laws don't protect the poor, and the governments do not enforce what rights they have to property.

In the United States we have laws that are enforced. They are revolutionary ~ and we think that's how things ought to be. The pope agrees. That doesn't mean we can count on him to endorse free markets.

5 posted on 03/14/2013 6:26:41 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: LucianOfSamasota

Best cure for poverty=capitalism


6 posted on 03/14/2013 6:26:55 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: goldstategop

Put it this way, it’s not charity to give away money taken at the point of a gun.


7 posted on 03/14/2013 6:27:53 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

The Pope is in favor of the social market. That is a market that is tempered by ethics and a concern for the welfare of all. The Church is both against communism and laissez-faire capitalism.


8 posted on 03/14/2013 6:29:02 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: dfwgator

Exactly. More wealth was created in the West in the period from the late 1700s through the early 1900s than at any other time or place in human history. And that is when Capitalism, in its “harshest” form, was in full force. Private charity is fine and eveyone should engage in it. But it should never be called “moral” for the government to take money from one person and give it to another person as a transfer payment or other benefit. That is simply a government policy and in many cases a horribly wrong government policy. I don’t know enough about this Pope to know if he supports private charity or is going to start going around saying that government has an obligation to hand out cash and other benefits to the poor. I hope he doesn’t.


9 posted on 03/14/2013 6:31:58 AM PDT by Opinionated Blowhard ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: LucianOfSamasota
Extreme poverty is also a violation of human rights, says Argentinean cardinal (New Pope)

The local news was talking about how he was into "social justice" otherwise know as socialism. Not sure were they got their information. If true, already I don't like him.

10 posted on 03/14/2013 6:32:02 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: muawiyah

Its more than charity; its a social obligation to uplift your fellow man. But this originates with individuals ans society and not from the government. Catholic social justice is not the social justice identified with the Left, which thinks the state is the source of justice. The true source of justice is God.


11 posted on 03/14/2013 6:32:18 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: iacovatx

Socialism makes everybody equally poor except those who rule.


12 posted on 03/14/2013 6:35:38 AM PDT by Rapscallion (The people sense what Obama has in store for America.)
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To: LucianOfSamasota
"In recent decades, he has emerged as a champion of social justice and the poor who has spoken out against the evils of globalization and slammed the “demonic effects of the imperialism of money."

I think that as the first Jesuit pope, he's a very interesting choice -- an aspect that seems to be glossed over by most of the MSM. I wouldn't be surprised if he had pretty much everyone "challenged" -- or extremely annoyed, depending on perspective -- before he's finished.

13 posted on 03/14/2013 6:35:44 AM PDT by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: Opinionated Blowhard
More wealth was created in the West in the period from the late 1700s through the early 1900s than at any other time or place in human history.

Well, no.

Exponentially more wealth was created in the last 50 years than in all of human history previously.

It is likely much of this wealth is built on a shaky foundation of government and private debt, but that doesn't mean the wealth wasn't created.

Admittedly, the industrial and scientific revolutions of the 18th through 20th centuries laid the foundation for post-WWII growth, but they didn't get much of the benefit.

14 posted on 03/14/2013 6:37:33 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: LucianOfSamasota
My understanding of Christian teachings (as imperfect and incomplete as it is) suggests that Christ was,to a degree at least,a “socialist”.He made very clear His expectations regarding charitable endeavors.However,He also said “render unto Ceaser” and in that way,IMO,he made it clear that charity needn't be enforced by “Ceaser” nor need it be funneled through him.
15 posted on 03/14/2013 6:38:13 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative ("Progressives" toss the word "racist" around like chimps toss their feces)
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To: LucianOfSamasota

Ugh.

We have no right to another’s labor, wealth, or property.

And in the 3779 verses in the four gospels, Jesus Christ NEVER comments on the state’s or society’s various methods for running economies or political systems, much less offer a prescription for preference for one over another.

Christ shows himself repeatedly to be sympathetic with the poor and sympathetic with the oppressed, but never does he offer prescriptions to deal with these worldly issues.

If we can extrapolate at all from the four gospels regarding the economic policies and practices of the state, it would be to suggest that Christ might theoretically eschew the state’s oppression of men by it political meddling in the free choices of men. But even this would mischaracterize Christ’s mission.

He came to save souls, not rearrange social structures.


16 posted on 03/14/2013 6:39:14 AM PDT by mbarker12474 (If thine enemy offend thee, give his childe a drum.)
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To: LucianOfSamasota

He sounds quite like a re-distributionist. Gotta spread the wealth to pay off that social debt!


17 posted on 03/14/2013 6:40:28 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: muawiyah

You’re the only person I know besides myself to point out the problem of Real Property Record Titles systems in the rest of the world. It was written up about 8 years ago, I think, in connection with the problem of fighting poverty in Egypt, a country where one might get a deed in the form of a bill-of-sale, but.........there’s no place to file it to perfect one’s property claim. However, I’d have thought that with South America and the natural follow-on from Spanish Law there would have been central registries for the recordation of deeds/mortgages, etc. And I’d have thought they’d have the infamous “Notarial” records systems. I know they do in Puerto Rico.


18 posted on 03/14/2013 6:40:34 AM PDT by Rich21IE
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To: LucianOfSamasota
Even in the Bible is says something like ‘don't worry about the poor, they will always be with us...’

That is a sort of recollection I have from long ago.. can someone corroborate it for me?

Anyway... what could be MORE immoral and unethical than stealing from honest, hard-pressed and hard-working people to subsidize the amoral and irresponsible lives of 4th and 5th generation losers who WILL NOT take responsibility for themselves or their OWN, routinely bad choices???!!

19 posted on 03/14/2013 6:41:31 AM PDT by SMARTY ("The man who has no inner-life is a slave to his surroundings. "Henri Frederic Amiel)
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To: goldstategop

>> But many on the Right act as if we should punish the poor

Seriously?


20 posted on 03/14/2013 6:42:11 AM PDT by Gene Eric (The Palin Doctrine.)
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To: iacovatx

Which is why the continuous attacks on private property.


21 posted on 03/14/2013 6:42:19 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (NRA Life Member)
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To: Gay State Conservative; LucianOfSamasota
My understanding of Christian teachings (as imperfect and incomplete as it is) suggests that Christ was,to a degree at least,a “socialist”.He made very clear His expectations regarding charitable endeavors.However,He also said “render unto Ceaser” and in that way,IMO,he made it clear that charity needn't be enforced by “Ceaser” nor need it be funneled through him.

No, Christ was not a socialist.

Socialism requires government force to accomplish it's goals.

Christ message and commands were only concerned with the actions of the individual.
22 posted on 03/14/2013 6:43:16 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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To: Rich21IE
Puerto Rico is US ~ so they have good title deeds. Several of the Central American countries have 'systems' with no enforcement unless you can pay for it and the armed guards you'll need.

The rest of the place is a mishmash of semi-systems, ancient traditions with no standing in law, as well as non enforcement.

Mexico encumbers it all with land tenancy laws that hurt the poor and help the rich ~ that was part of the Revolucion's land reform ~ it kinda' backfired so you end up with more concentration of ownership than before the Revolucion. Part of that, though, is their need to compete in agriculture with the US, else cheap American crops would swamp their country.

I keep my eye on this just in case any real news pops up but ever since the Commies were demonstrated to have no use for the poor either, you don't hear their Socialist brethren hyping any sort of land reform ~ or enforcement of titles.

23 posted on 03/14/2013 6:45:58 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Sooth2222
Observe the splendor in which the pope lives and in which the Vatican operates.

Should that wealth not be what God wants for mankind? What was that about poverty being a violation of human rights? If capitalist splendor is what God wants for mankind then the Pope has his work cut out for him. He should not be taking the wealth away from those who are blessed, but teaching the poor and oppressed how to earn a better living.

24 posted on 03/14/2013 6:46:10 AM PDT by Rapscallion (The people sense what Obama has in store for America.)
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To: muawiyah

Quite true of the Commies; ask any Russian. For the Leftists, the “poor” are to be used for their nefarious ends. They’re seen as a tool.


25 posted on 03/14/2013 6:49:17 AM PDT by Rich21IE
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To: LucianOfSamasota

What does it really matter whether he is to the left of “Hugo Chavez” or to the right of “Ronald Reagan” on economic issues? The majority of Americans (and it’s been my experience, even a majority of American Catholics), really don’t give a rat’s rump what the Pope says if they bother to listen to him speak at all. That’s not meant to be slam at the man or the Papacy, just a statement of fact.


26 posted on 03/14/2013 6:49:20 AM PDT by apillar
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To: Gene Eric
None of us here are Royalists ~ this is a Conservative board and doesn't fit into the seating arrangements proposed for the French General Assembly in 1791.

Those guys believed the poor should be punished and took serious action to punish them. We weren't involved and, again, we're not Royalists.

27 posted on 03/14/2013 6:49:22 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: goldstategop

For a Christian: The Lord is our Provider.
If we submit to the Lord, and work hard, the Lord will bless us.
A wealthy man has been blessed by the Lord. Who are we to judge how he obtained his wealth? If he obtained his wealth through nefarious means, that is between him and the Lord.

We are commanded to work, as unto the Lord; support our families; and share with those in need from compassion. God will also provide for those in need, as they learn to serve Him.

No where does scripture suggest a right to TAKE form the more fortunate, only that we should be generous to those in need.

For a Marxist/Liberation Theology adherent: The State/society has an inferred ‘contract’ to provide for the members/subjects. The rich have too much, and must have obtained it by exploiting the worker. Those who will not share their wealth with the poor are greedy. Their greed justifies taking their wealth by force.

So a Christian works for his wealth, which is provided by God, and shares with the poor out of compassion.
A Marxist depends upon the social contract for his wealth, the State is his provider, and he takes from the ‘rich’ out of envy.

Sorry for needing so many words to explain such a basic concept.


28 posted on 03/14/2013 6:49:23 AM PDT by LucianOfSamasota (Tanstaafl - its not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: LucianOfSamasota

Actually, no apologies necessary, well stated sir or madam.


29 posted on 03/14/2013 6:50:18 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Gay State Conservative

> My understanding of Christian teachings (as imperfect and incomplete as it is) suggests that Christ was,to a degree at least,a “socialist”.

Never in 3779 verses of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, does Christ assert that the third party of government should confiscate wealth from party A and give it to party B.

Not only that, but in these 3779 verses, Christ makes ZERO statements concerning how the state and society and community should organize the civic affairs of men with men, in politics or economy or any worldly, civic, manner.

Christ is silent on school boards, city councils, tax rates, neighborhood associations, the Fed, the Laffer Curve, dog catchers, government loans, and all other civic matters and arrangements of men with men.

Christ is interested SOLELY in the salvation of souls.

> He made very clear His expectations regarding charitable endeavors

Yes. Christians are to give. Everything belongs to God. The poor man you see on the street is Christ, and you are measured by how you treat Christ. You are to give up EVERYTHING and follow Christ.


30 posted on 03/14/2013 6:51:42 AM PDT by mbarker12474 (If thine enemy offend thee, give his childe a drum.)
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To: LucianOfSamasota; ColdOne; navymom1; Pat4ever; RIghtwardHo; Reaganite Republican; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

31 posted on 03/14/2013 6:52:33 AM PDT by narses
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To: goldstategop

You forget, there really are some just plain bad people who aren’t going to be “transformed” because all they care about is themselves.


32 posted on 03/14/2013 6:52:57 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: LucianOfSamasota
The government and other organizations should instead work to create the social conditions that will promote and protect the rights of the poor and enable them to be the builders of their own future, he explained.

Sounds like something Ronald Reagan would say.

33 posted on 03/14/2013 6:53:18 AM PDT by painter (Obamahood,"Steal from the working people and give to the worthless.")
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To: LucianOfSamasota

“Shoes of the Fisherman” Anthony Quinn

Use the riches of The Church to care for them.


34 posted on 03/14/2013 6:53:22 AM PDT by Einherjar
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To: SMARTY

It doesn’t say ”don’t worry about the poor”. The passage to which you refer is a complex and nuanced moment, when Mary Magdalene annoints the feet of Jesus ( as an indication of his approaching death). Pharisees rebuke the woman, and Jesus, saying that the money for the costly ointment would be better spent on the poor. Jesus answers, ”the poor we will always have with us, but I am here just a little while.”


35 posted on 03/14/2013 6:56:02 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: cripplecreek

Yes there is extreme poverty but somehow their leaders live in golden palaces. It is not America’s fault of world proverity as we have shown and told the world what to do and vast, vast amounts of our treasure has been taken from us to prop up those leaders that live in those palaces as opposed to demanding our treasure, if allowed to be taken from us should go directly to the people, not those peoples government.


36 posted on 03/14/2013 6:57:56 AM PDT by edcoil (Half of every class gratuates at the bottom, they are now politicians.)
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To: kabumpo

ok


37 posted on 03/14/2013 6:59:28 AM PDT by SMARTY ("The man who has no inner-life is a slave to his surroundings. "Henri Frederic Amiel)
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To: Rich21IE
A note on history. I've been hunting down cities and towns East of the Mississippi that were laid out under the Spanish Law of the Indies. Some folks imagine there to have been none, but in reality there were several dozen.

The big deal here, given the availability of land, was to issue the smallest grant in terms of 1,000 arpents!

The grantee ~ which might have been a government agent at a Villa Real (yup, St. Louis wasn't the only one of those), would subdivide it into 10 arpent sites which were just big enough to feed a horse and family ~ plus, they'd cut roads in there to provide for circulation around the townsite.

One place in Illinois not far from Champaign, going South, was enclosed in a stockade fence all the way around ~ with towers in the corner to fight invaders.

The Spanish may well have provided title to the properties but when they pulled out of the region after the end of Queen Anne's War they took the records ~ whatever they were ~ with them. I suspect many of them still exist.

In some cases I have been able to identify an earlier Spanish resident of one of these grants simply by looking to see who the first fellow was to file for a title under the American government. These guys are ALL hispanic! The French, with a different system, chose to file claim with the US government and wait 25 years for a title. The Spanish went right to the government's land agents to make their claims.

Obviously all the earliest settlers knew about land titles and the power they gave an individual. Even the Oneida were as exacting as the Spanish in their own land grants ~ look up a guy named Allen who was the first settler of Rochester ~ trace his story back to the grants the Oneida gave him. They were far from primitive savages.

From the earliest times American land title systems have protected the poor from the rich, and the rich against each other.

38 posted on 03/14/2013 6:59:53 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: LucianOfSamasota

This guy sounds like he might be to the corporatist states what JPII was to the communist states.

Social corporatism (a modern fascism) while pretending to be sensitive to the needs of the poor actually ruins their lives by making them dependent on the state.

In reality, since the fascist state has an elite group running things and an elite leader over them, it is really nothing more than a modern form of serial emperors in an aristocratic empire.

That is: Obama and the liberal hierarchy


39 posted on 03/14/2013 7:01:22 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: goldstategop
He is not a socialist. But many on the Right act as if we should punish the poor and those who are imprisoned rather than work to help them transform themselves.

Agreed. We don't have to pander to the poor but we do need to show them that they are victims and slaves to the democrats who want to keep them in line.
40 posted on 03/14/2013 7:02:46 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: from occupied ga

The true social justice mission of the church is inextricably tied to the concept of subsidiarity.

Subsidiarity insists that the smallest or most local organization that can address a problem should address a problem.

Therefore, an individual is obligated to help himself, his family, his neighbor. The church is organized throughout the world on a local level to serve the poor, educate children, build hospitals and provide ministry programs for all.

There is very little in terms of helping the poor that required a large federal government. That is Catholic teaching, although the concept is not properly promoted by many in the media and more unfortunately by many in the church.


41 posted on 03/14/2013 7:06:03 AM PDT by rwilson99 (Please tell me how the words "shall not perish and have everlasting life" would NOT apply to Mary.)
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To: edcoil

Right. Even private contributions to the needy (like tsunami victims) finds its way into the wrong hands.

In any case, America and Americans are and have ALWAYS been more than generous.

No other nation on earth has voluntarily given such a bounty of aid to the sick, needy, oppressed, etc. It never ends.

At the same time (and moreso lately), these same people, AND their leadership never miss an opportunity to bash the US.

Some of the countries most exceedingly Anti-American, would not even appear on a MAP if not for the assistance and continuing support of the US... they constantly receive material, political and financial assistance from the US...often times with NO expectation of repayment !!

They don’t need to LOVE us but some basic respect for who we are and what we do for them would be nice.


42 posted on 03/14/2013 7:06:46 AM PDT by SMARTY ("The man who has no inner-life is a slave to his surroundings. "Henri Frederic Amiel)
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To: Rich21IE; LucianOfSamasota
You’re the only person I know besides myself to point out the problem of Real Property Record Titles systems in the rest of the world.

The economist Hernando de Soto wrote about this. I have his book "The Mystery of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumphs in the West and Fails Everywhere Else" at home.

43 posted on 03/14/2013 7:12:37 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Choose one: the yellow and black flag of the Tea Party or the white flag of the Republican Party.)
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To: rwilson99; LucianOfSamasota

Thanks for posting. I was about to do the same, to answer Lucian’s question in post 1, but you beat me to it.

“Social justice”, is a requirement of all Catholics (all human beings I’d say) but it is sadly perverted by the leftists in both the US media and the US Church.

Subsidiarity is the true way Catholics (and humans in general) should promote social justice, as rwilson99 explained in post 41.

And I’d dare to say its how the good Cardinal then, now Pope Francis, approaches the problem.


44 posted on 03/14/2013 7:23:40 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: rwilson99
The true social justice mission of the church is inextricably tied to the concept of subsidiarity.

Well we'll see if that's how he interprets it. If you read the material on the ACCB web site on "social justice" it appears interchangeable with the liberal Democrat platform. Maybe that will change. I'm not holding my breath.

45 posted on 03/14/2013 7:24:16 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: rwilson99

The Catjolic church owns over 1/4 of the worlds fine art or so we were (proudly) told on a tour of St. Peters. Yet they have some of the most crushingly poor congregations that send THEM money I suggest the new pope do something about the log in his own eye before lecturing the rest of the world how to care for the poor. I’m not Catholic bashing, but I have often wondered how the Catholic church reconciles it’s great wealth and opulence with the poverty of some of it’s people, particularly when Chridt said “the Som of Man has nowhere to lay His head”. And now the new pope wants to lecture us how to care for the poor?


46 posted on 03/14/2013 7:25:43 AM PDT by Mom MD (A million people attended Obamas inauguration. 14 of them actually missed work)
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To: LucianOfSamasota

Great! A world communist pope to go hand in hand with the communist US President!


47 posted on 03/14/2013 7:27:34 AM PDT by PotatoChop (Respect is earned, not demanded by this out of control socialist government!)
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To: Rich21IE

I thought there was an economist who either won a Nobel Prize, or was nominated for one, who wrote a paper or book on the relationship between property rights and the economic prosperity, or lack thereof, of a country. However, I can’t seem to find the article.


48 posted on 03/14/2013 7:33:21 AM PDT by knittnmom (Save the earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!)
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To: yldstrk

There are criminals whose crimes are so horrible, redemption is not possible for them.

But pastoral ministry includes reaching to lost souls who want to change their ways. Christian teaching after all says, hate the sin but forgive he who sins.


49 posted on 03/14/2013 7:33:42 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Mom MD

The Church saved my life. I was treated in a Catholic hospital.

So yes, the Church is the world’s largest non-profit education and health care provider.


50 posted on 03/14/2013 7:35:52 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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