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Red light camera petition picks up speed ( Tucson )
KGUN9-TV ^ | May. 27, 2013 | Cory Marshall

Posted on 05/28/2013 12:12:54 PM PDT by george76

It is a petition to end what many Tucson drivers describe as a traffic light trap.

John Kromko is the man behind the petition. His group, Tucson Traffic Justice, claims the cameras are a scam.

...

Ditching the cameras is not as far-fetched as it may seem. More and more cities are shutting down the system including San Diego, Los Angeles and Tempe.

(Excerpt) Read more at kgun9.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: California; US: Colorado; US: District of Columbia; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: camera; criminalgovernment; donutwatch; extortion; followthemoney; govtabuse; policestate; redflex; redlight; redlightcamera; redlightcameras; revenue; revenueenhancement; revenuenotsafety; revenuetickets; trafficlight; trialbycamera

1 posted on 05/28/2013 12:12:54 PM PDT by george76
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To: george76

One city that will never get rid of the speed camera’s and red light camera’s is Washington DC.

They make too much money off them. It is their form of a commuter tax.

It’s only a money making scheme to begin with—Free money.

I don’t go into Washington unless I absolutely have to thanks to these camera’s. I avoid it any way I can.


2 posted on 05/28/2013 12:18:24 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: george76

in Rochester NY it was found that after installation the city shortened the yellow duration from 4 seconds (the state min) to 3 seconds - many tickets thrown out


3 posted on 05/28/2013 12:19:08 PM PDT by Revelation 911 (hump scratching n'er do well.....all strung out on chicken wings and venison jerky)
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To: george76

Funny - I have actually wished FOR red light cameras here in North Little Rock. I have absolutely NEVER seen the absolute disregard for public safety in my life - in any city or town I have ever visited.

I have made it a personal game when approaching a red light to see not IF someone will run the light after mine turns greed, but HOW MANY will run the light. I do not “jump on the gas” when my light turns green, either. Indeed, it is not particularly uncommon that one has to sit through an entire green light and not get to go at all because of the red light runners.

I have actually considered taking one of my days off and sitting in my truck in a parking lot by a nearby traffic light and filming the intersection.

What is the answer? If officers spent all their time trying to enforce the traffic lights - then everyone would bemoan there are better things to do with their time (and I would agree).

I personally do not understand the cry against these cameras - if there were regulations regarding their use for tickets to be valid (a reasonable minimum yellow light length being one obvious). Is the objection that the registered owner receives the ticket, not necessarily the driver? Is it corruption because the cameras can be rigged with WAY too short yellows?

I’m not a fan of “big brother”, but I’m even less a fan of blatant disregard for the law - especially that which endangers my health, wellbeing, and family. At what cost, freedom? You tell me.


4 posted on 05/28/2013 12:23:29 PM PDT by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: TheBattman

Cops are too lazy to engage in enforcement so corporate monopolies bribing local pols is the answer?


5 posted on 05/28/2013 12:25:57 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

Cops are just revenuers anyhow.


6 posted on 05/28/2013 12:29:08 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie ("The White House can't be trusted." - Ron Fournier, National Journal)
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To: jjotto

Cops too lazy? I have had many very interesting conversations with local police officers about the issue with red light-running. Without exception, they have said that ticketing these violators is low on their priority list, not because it isn’t important, but because of their limited resources - and because there is a public outcry that the police need to be actually trying to prevent crimes...


7 posted on 05/28/2013 12:29:16 PM PDT by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: TheBattman

Shorter yellow light = more rear-end collisions.


8 posted on 05/28/2013 12:30:04 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Venturer

Why would you ever “petition” a tyrant? Why don’t they instead do an initiative that outlaws the practice? Then the tyrants have no choice.


9 posted on 05/28/2013 12:31:04 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: TheBattman

I stay out of LR period. I have relatives in the area but they are in outlying towns.


10 posted on 05/28/2013 12:31:41 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Happy Hunger Games! May the odds be ever in your favor.)
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To: TheBattman

So they’re not only lazy they’re too IMPORTANT and don’t want to be thought of as, well, law enforcement...


11 posted on 05/28/2013 12:32:48 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Venturer

Congratulations, taxpayers of Tucson , you paid handsomely to have the cameras purchased and installed, and now, IF YOU ARE
LUCKY, you will pay again to have them removed. You’d only get a fight from the authorities if the Political/Law Enforcement/Judicial complex was asked to pay out of their own pockets for the removal. So you may well win “this one”, and LE emerge out of it looking like the guys good enough to admit they “made a mistake”.


12 posted on 05/28/2013 12:32:49 PM PDT by supremedoctrine
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To: TheBattman

Cameras do not make any money at intersections with reasonable yellow light times. Installing cameras increases accidents even when light times are left alone—which seems to be a rarity. Drivers’ decision points are skewed from the cameras: many people slam on the brakes to avoid tickets and others punch the gas to clear the intersection. The end result is not pretty....

Here in Tampa, the city made almost 200k last year and expects to clear 250 this year. A couple of the intersections I pass every morning look like strobe lights! Nothing but revenue generation by corrupt officials.


13 posted on 05/28/2013 12:48:00 PM PDT by antidisestablishment (Drones are not just for spying, anymore; they make great workers under a totalitarian state)
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To: TheBattman
I have actually wished FOR red light cameras here in North Little Rock. I have absolutely NEVER seen the absolute disregard for public safety in my life - in any city or town I have ever visited.

Must be a regional thing. I've never deliberately run a red light and I don't think I have ever seen anyone else do so.

14 posted on 05/28/2013 12:55:27 PM PDT by bkepley
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15 posted on 05/28/2013 12:57:10 PM PDT by RedMDer (You are Free Republic. There are no outside influences. Just us, all of us. Please donate today!)
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To: Revelation 911

The entire key to whether this red light camera thing is just or unjust lies in the duration of the yellow light. I can tell you with absolute certainly that NO lighted traffic intersection in my very congested part of New Jersey, Bergen County has a yellow light that lasts longer than 3 seconds. Approaching a light that’s just turned yellow you should effectively consider it as ALREADY a red light. You can only beat it by speeding up, likely to above the speed limit, and then you’ve probably got a speeding ticket and a running a red light ticket.Remember the movie STARMAN with Jeff Bridges and Karen Allen? After spending time as a passenger in her car, the otherworldly character played by Bridges concludes “Red-——stop, Green-—go, yellow——go very fast!”


16 posted on 05/28/2013 12:57:41 PM PDT by supremedoctrine
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To: TheBattman
You said...

I have absolutely NEVER seen the absolute disregard for public safety in my life - in any city or town I have ever visited.

Then later...

What is the answer? If officers spent all their time trying to enforce the traffic lights - then everyone would bemoan there are better things to do with their time (and I would agree).

You would agree? That doesn't make any sense. If the traffic pattern is as bad as you say it is, then writing a mess of tickets would be a perfectly fine use of their time, if it gets the drivers to respect the red lights.

17 posted on 05/28/2013 1:07:16 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (I am a dissident. Will you join me? My name is John....)
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To: Venturer
Drivers Fight Back:

Everybody Loves To...

UK Crime

18 posted on 05/28/2013 1:30:59 PM PDT by publius911 (Look for the Union label, then buy something else.)
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To: Cyber Liberty

When your city has a problem with crime, the available resources must be prioritized. Patrol or park and write tickets. My agreement is that I would rather them be trying to prevent crimes (like home invasions, burglary, armed robbery, etc.).

And we all know that there are politics to everything. Red light enforcement doesn’t get a mayor re-elected (even when it is as insane as it is here). But having cops visible in neighborhoods DOES (even if they are not really accomplishing anything).

I still do not see a valid argument against the red light camera enforcement in all of the responses. Only attacks on my posts.


19 posted on 05/28/2013 1:32:23 PM PDT by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: Still Thinking

That’s the point of the petition, to get enough signatures to get on the ballot.


20 posted on 05/28/2013 1:36:13 PM PDT by discostu (Not just another moon faced assassin of joy.)
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To: TheBattman

Maybe because it’s because you like red-light cameras.

There are many philosophical reasons to not like them, they’ve been hashed out on FR for years. My objection is simple: If there is a danger great enough to increase vigilance of key intersections (lot of collisions with injuries, for example), then it’s worth having a patrolman there to write the tickets live and in person. They stick better in court that way because there is a live witness to the crime.

But demonstrating to the FReeps you like red-light cameras will get you flamed. I shouldn’t have to explain why that is.


21 posted on 05/28/2013 1:39:37 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (I am a dissident. Will you join me? My name is John....)
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To: TheBattman

Put on your Big Boy Underpants and drive awake. Leave the safety to feed on each other.


22 posted on 05/28/2013 1:48:09 PM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept?)
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To: george76

Red light camera’s are simply about revenue. Rear end accidents go up in red light intersections because as another post mentioned, decision points change drastically with these things. I know I have slammed on the brakes when approaching a red light intersections. Not going to take the risk of them shortening the yellow on me.

If there was a huge problem with this (like N. Little Rock), just have a few weeks of “enhanced enforcement” at the biggest intersections and you would see a drastic reduction in red light running. I posit that if the local police force hired just one officer that only did red light enforcement, they would pay for the position many times over by the tickets they wrote. And guess what, the locality gets to keep ALL of the monies paid instead of sending half of it to the privately owned red light camera company!

FYI to my Washington State friends, I believe the law still reads that the red light camera must be at the intersection of two arterials. I believe it is the whole State, not just my locality. In my town, there are two of these that are at the intersection of a city designated arterial and a city designated “side street” which makes any ticket issued from these cameras as invalid. They count on people just paying the ticket without knowing the law. Also in Washington State, you can send in an affidavit that you were not driving the car at the time and the ticket will be dismissed. I have done this three times (I really wasn’t the driver). I just make sure all our cars except one are in my name and the one that isn’t in my name is the car I drive the most. Instant deniability.

Last but not least, statistically, close to 80% of the tickets issued are for safely executed right turn on red. The safety of this maneuver is outweighs the problem with the increase of rear-end collisions.

Bottom line, it is all about the revenue.


23 posted on 05/28/2013 1:49:26 PM PDT by copaliscrossing (Comparison is the beginning of discontent.)
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To: TheBattman
IF anyone has to explain to you why traffic cameras are an unconstitutional infringement on our rights then I question why you come to FR in the first place?
24 posted on 05/28/2013 2:02:56 PM PDT by ohioman
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To: All
They need more in Houston.

At 5:40 am I saw two cars a two separate lights treat the red lights as stop signs.

I guess if you can't see a cop you don't have to wait....:^)

I live near Tucson and wil sign the petition.

25 posted on 05/28/2013 2:29:13 PM PDT by az_gila
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To: TheBattman

The issue isn’t the cameras themselves. It is tbe willingness to play games with the yellow light to produce more violators.

Too many governments only care about the money. They don’t want safe driving. That would end the cash flow.


26 posted on 05/29/2013 10:06:43 AM PDT by LevinFan
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To: george76

It’s all about the revenue, baby.


27 posted on 05/29/2013 11:57:49 AM PDT by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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