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Spat between Angela Merkel and Vladimir Putin over German treasure
The Telegraph ^ | 6-21-13

Posted on 06/21/2013 1:21:10 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic

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To: dfwgator

“This is one case where “ethnic cleansing” was a good thing.”

No, I’m sorry. Stalin’s ‘ethnic cleansing’ was wrong.

If ethnic cleansing of Germans was a good thing, why the hell was the US fighting?


51 posted on 06/21/2013 3:06:12 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: Snickering Hound

Wow, that’s one of the first pics I’ve seen of it.
Wonder how much of it had embedded insects in it, or
maybe that wasn’t considered valuable at the time?
A lot of Amber in any case.


52 posted on 06/21/2013 3:07:41 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: dfwgator

I find it interesting that Stalin ethnic cleansing Poles Wilno is a bad thing, but Stalin ethnic cleansing Germans in Koenigsberg is a good thing.

Go Stalin! Stalin should have ethnic cleansed even more to solve the problems of europe for all time!


53 posted on 06/21/2013 3:08:10 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: 0.E.O
I agree with you, especially given the savagery of the fighting on the Eastern Front and what they did to Soviet civilians, especially Jews.

But it would be a nice gesture for the Russians to give it back. The Treasure has nothing to do with Russian history and has no Nazi identification.

54 posted on 06/21/2013 3:08:38 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: dfwgator

Here’s a question for you - why didn’t the Americans ethnic cleanse all of Germany since ‘ethnic cleansing solves problems?’


55 posted on 06/21/2013 3:08:45 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: JCBreckenridge

The only possible “good” Stalin might have done was
to Chechens but I would wish the gulag on no one,
even muslims.


56 posted on 06/21/2013 3:10:41 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: JCBreckenridge

The point was to eliminate potential conflicts with minorities in the host countries...obviously not an issue with sending Germans back to Germany.


57 posted on 06/21/2013 3:10:44 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: tet68
Is that NSA or DHS now.

I'm fluent in Russian.The letters on that shield translate to "IRS".

58 posted on 06/21/2013 3:16:23 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (The Civil Servants Are No Longer Servants...Or Civil.)
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To: dfwgator

So why didn’t the Americans ethnic cleanse and eliminate the German problem for all time?

Why did Stalin ethnic cleanse?

This isn’t a hard question, dfwgator. Stalin ethnic cleansed because he was a brutal dictator and FDR bent over for him.

Those ‘solved problems’, lead to the annexation of Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia, lands which were never freed by the allies. Free people who had done nothing to hurt any Jews whatsoever.

Yet they were abandoned to Stalin. Perhaps if Stalin had ethnic cleansed them too there would have been fewer problems. Same with Finland, btw, but I bet you don’t care about that either.

Finland fought hard to resist tyranny by Stalin and what did the Americans do to help? Nothing. Maybe Stalin should have ethnic cleansed them too. Since ‘ethnic cleansing solves problems’.

No, it doesn’t solve problems.

Poland should get Wilno because of what Stalin did to invade an ally. That’s how it’s supposed to work. If one of your ally gets invaded by an ally of Hitler, you work for the restoration of the territory conquered. Instead, FDR just didn’t care enough.

But it’s good to see FDR defenders here. “Ethnic cleansing is good because it solves problems”. I wonder if America should try the same thing with ‘troublesome’ minorities!


59 posted on 06/21/2013 3:17:33 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: dfwgator

“The point was to eliminate potential conflicts with minorities in the host countries...obviously not an issue with sending Germans back to Germany.”

Koenigsberg was German far longer than America has ever been around. What was done there was a travesty of the war. It was wrong. I’m sorry - if you go to war to fight people trying to exterminate the Jews, you don’t turn around and start exterminating the Germans. The Americans understood that. Stalin - did not. It doesn’t make what Stalin did right because FDR believed him to be on the same team. No, Stalin was never on the allied team. He took and took and took from FDR everything he could, money and supplies that could have been used by the Americans to free europe.

Would America have been better off with Stalin ruling all of Europe? I somehow doubt that. Patton got it, Churchill got it, FDR? Was only too happy to consign millions of people to Stalin.


60 posted on 06/21/2013 3:21:26 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: JCBreckenridge

Killing Germans was wrong....forcing them back to Germany was not.


61 posted on 06/21/2013 3:22:14 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Gay State Conservative

Internal Revenue Security.

The way this administration is, all capitalist
enterprises ARE under under their jurisdiction.

Always remember, you cannot have organs of internal
security without an internal threat to the state.
If there isn’t one, they will find one if only to
justify their existance.

That is the problem with ALL Obama’s Stateorgs.


62 posted on 06/21/2013 3:25:12 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: dfwgator

Koenigsberg was part of Germany.


63 posted on 06/21/2013 3:30:01 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Feh.
Really...had not the victors of WWI been so vindictive towards Germany, Germany might not have been seduced by the vile songs of the NAZI’s and silently nodded as the NAZI’s wreaked havoc all over Europe.
Europe ‘’asked’’ for WWII and got it.
In spades.


64 posted on 06/21/2013 3:30:27 PM PDT by Thumper1960 (A modern so-called "Conservative" is a shadow of a wisp of a vertebrate human being.)
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To: JCBreckenridge

And Kiev was once part of Poland, so what’s your point....lands change hands over time due to war, WWII was no different.


65 posted on 06/21/2013 3:31:20 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

You said ‘forcing Germans’ back to Germany was fine.

But Koenigsberg was German. So it wasn’t for Stalin about ‘forcing Germans to Germany’, it was about gobbling up more land for himself, taking over parts of Germany and Poland and all of Eastern Europe.

That was the legacy of FDR.


66 posted on 06/21/2013 3:33:53 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: Navy Patriot

We just stole the scientists (and the flying saucers.)


67 posted on 06/21/2013 3:36:31 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?)
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To: Thumper1960

Which is why we had The Marshall Plan after WWII.


68 posted on 06/21/2013 3:39:31 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

Never, never, say never. My grandfather was from Lwow, I KNOW it will be Polish again.


69 posted on 06/21/2013 3:50:42 PM PDT by fogofbobegabay
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To: fogofbobegabay

If I had my way, I would restore the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.


70 posted on 06/21/2013 3:56:36 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

Who knows. History has taken some weird turns before.


71 posted on 06/21/2013 3:57:54 PM PDT by fogofbobegabay
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Trade it for Königsberg.


72 posted on 06/21/2013 3:59:06 PM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: Cyber Liberty
British, maybe, but one can say they’re not really Europe

Past Calais, it's all wogs....

73 posted on 06/21/2013 4:01:31 PM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Berliners call the Russian Tomb of the Unknown Soldier there, the “Tomb of the Unknown Looter”....


74 posted on 06/21/2013 5:20:28 PM PDT by ALASKA
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks afraidfortherepublic. The USSR stole priceless ancient artifacts, and lied about it for decades, which isn't surprising at all, because the Soviet regime was entirely criminal. Obviously the Trojan War artifacts should go back to Berlin, period. And no more shilly-shallying because of the Amber Room.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


75 posted on 06/21/2013 9:48:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (McCain or Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: JCBreckenridge; dfwgator

Konigsberg and it’s area was a center of Junker aristocracy aka Prussia. In short, it was a core of notorious German militarism for centuries.
Russians were fully aware of this fact and for that very reason they ethnically cleansed it.
It seems like worked. There is no German militarism anymore, at least they weren’t in state of aggressive war with someone since 1945, which might be the the longest peaceful period for Germans’ neighbors in 500 years.
I think it is correct to call them eurowennies now.


76 posted on 06/21/2013 10:08:45 PM PDT by cunning_fish
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To: cunning_fish

Yes, ethnic cleansing is just so awesome isn’t it. It’s a good thing Hitler was Prussian too!


77 posted on 06/22/2013 2:06:32 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: JCBreckenridge

Who tells ethnic cleansing is good? And Hitler wasn’t Prussian but Junkers were eager to serve his cause and aren’t innocent for that reason.


78 posted on 06/22/2013 2:21:02 AM PDT by cunning_fish
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To: cunning_fish

You just did. You praised the ethnic cleansing of Germans in Germany by Stalin. He was amazing, wasnt he?

“Hitler wasn’t Prussian.”

What was he then? Shouldn’t Stalin have ethnically cleansed those who were responsible for starting the second world war?


79 posted on 06/22/2013 2:27:51 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: JCBreckenridge

I didn’t! Hitler was Austrian.


80 posted on 06/22/2013 3:53:51 AM PDT by cunning_fish
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To: cunning_fish

Good thing Stalin ethnic cleansed the Prussians then.


81 posted on 06/22/2013 4:01:09 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: JCBreckenridge

I just told you their reason. I haven’t told if it good or bad. But the reality is If not for the Prussian natural born war spirit backing him, Hitler could have ended as a third rate dictator pushing his speeches to unenlightened masses in Munich of somewhere. It wasn’t Hitler’s genuis who did blitzcrieg so well initially, and it was Prussian generals who followed his orders and went to Russia (72 years ago this day) to kill millions of innocent people.
That is exact reason why there is no Prussia and Prussians today.


82 posted on 06/22/2013 4:11:49 AM PDT by cunning_fish
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To: KarlInOhio

German looting was matched by German vandalism. Precious historical, scientific and cultural treasures lost to the Nazis are literally irreplaceable. In this instance, I’m going to side with Stalin (and Bomber Harris). They sowed the wind, they reaped the whirlwind.


83 posted on 06/22/2013 4:17:21 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Doing the same thing and expecting different results is called software engineering.)
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To: cunning_fish

“If not for the Prussian natural born war spirit”

Which is why they needed the mechinations of an insane Austrian nutbar illegal immigrant to lead them.

They didn’t want war in 1914 either - that was the Austrians. Again.

If the Prussians were so clever and such great warriors, why did they fight both world wars? They won in 1870, they were able to beat Austria. They cobbled together the German empire because they chose to pick their spots.

It was never the Prussians who pushed for two massively destructive wars that crushed the German people.


84 posted on 06/22/2013 7:30:32 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: dfwgator
I'm waiting for Govnor Perry to do something abut all of the territory stolen from Texas.


85 posted on 06/22/2013 7:50:49 AM PDT by Pilsner
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