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Star Witness Against George Zimmerman Flops Big Time
The New American ^ | 28 June 2013 | Alex Newman

Posted on 06/28/2013 11:39:38 PM PDT by VitacoreVision


Rachel Jeantel

Rachel Jeantel, the prosecution's "star witness" against George Zimmerman, endured an embarrassing grilling both inside the Florida courtroom and in the national media.

Star Witness Against George Zimmerman Flops Big Time

The New American
28 June 2013

The prosecution's "star witness" against former neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman, accused of murder in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, endured an embarrassing grilling both inside the Florida courtroom and in the national media. From potentially incriminating social-media posts publicized by reporters to major gaffes during her testimony, Rachel Jeantel, 19 (shown), has sparked even more criticism of what legal experts say appears to be an overzealous bid to convict Zimmerman regardless of the evidence supporting his claims of self-defense.

First, reporters uncovered a Twitter account used by Jeantel, who was on the phone with Martin shortly before he was killed and has been repeatedly described as prosecutors' "star" witness in the case. While dozens of the expletive-laced and potentially incriminating messages were deleted or "scrubbed" in recent days, the controversial posts were captured by journalists before being taken down. Jeantel tweeted about everything from "getting high" and drug use to underage drinking and apparent drunk driving.

Inside the courtroom, matters went even worse for prosecutors. Among other controversies, the key witness was forced to admit in cross-examination that she could not understand the handwriting in a letter that she supposedly "wrote" about the killing. "I don't read cursive," she responded when Zimmerman's defense attorney asked Jeantel if she could read the document. The witness claimed that a friend had helped her write it, but media accounts said the explosive revelation sent a "hush" through the courtroom.

Jeantel's testimony also revealed other major holes in the prosecution's case. For example, while the establishment media and race-profiteers have been fiendishly trying to paint Zimmerman, who is Hispanic, as a racist, Jeantel said that Martin had in fact made a racist comment about Zimmerman over the phone. According to the witness, Martin told her there was a "creepy-a** cracker" following him. Cracker, of course, is generally considered a racist term used to describe whites.

There were also some apparent contradictions in Jeantel's story — major ones. During her testimony, for instance, she claimed that shortly before the shooting, she heard Martin ask Zimmerman "why are you following me?" After that, Jeantel claimed she heard Martin tell Zimmerman to "get off!" Under cross-examination by the defense, however, Jeantel alleged that she had not mentioned the supposed remarks in earlier statements because she did not think they were important. In a taped interview with prosecutors before the trial, Jeantel had also said she "couldn't hear" Martin tell Zimmerman to get off.

While on the witness stand, Jeantel even admitted to telling several lies under oath. Defense attorney Don West pointed out that the witness, who had known Martin since elementary school, lied to Martin's mother about her age, claiming she was 16 when she was in fact two years older than that. Jeantel also told Martin's mother that she did not attend the funeral due to hospitalization, which was untrue as well. The witness claimed the lies were told because of how she felt.

Unsurprisingly, defense attorneys seized on the testimony to argue that Jeantel was an unreliable witness. West, co-counsel for Zimmerman, also suggested that Jeantel did not call the police after hearing the confrontation "because Trayvon Martin started the fight, and you knew that." Jeantel responded by denying the accusation and saying she did not know what West was talking about. Eventually, Jeantel was finally forced to admit under oath that she did not know who started the fight.

In the court of public opinion, meanwhile, the "star" witness was being grilled as well. The Smoking Gun, an online service that publicizes "exclusive documents," managed to track down Jeantel's profiles on social media services. In a series of explosive reports, the site exposed numerous Twitter posts by the witness that were embarrassing at the very least — and incriminating at worst. The account was promptly scrubbed, but the damage was done.

"Party time let get high," one of the posts read. Another said: "Omg everybody high" followed by "Lol we going to hell for smoke on Sunday I need some more drink." Separate tweets apparently referring to driving while under the influence were also deleted. "I hope I dnt hit no one tonight lord plz watch my driving," Jeantel reportedly wrote. "Just got home thank u lord good night," she added later. Numerous pictures and expletive-filled comments were deleted as well.

Legal experts have been blasting the prosecution and its alleged ethical violations since long before the trial began. In the wake of Jeantel's embarrassing testimony, however, more than a few analysts even suggested the witness and her statements may have actually benefited Zimmerman. Kevin Martin, a member of the conservative-leaning Project 21 black leadership network, which was formed after the L.A. riots, was among the commentators suggesting that Jeantel could have hurt the prosecution.

"To say that Miss Jeantel's testimony was anything other than a fiasco would be an understatement,” Martin said in statement distributed by the National Center for Public Policy Research. "The prosecution did a real disservice to the memory of Trayvon Martin in apparently not preparing Rachel Jeantel well enough to testify. To the casual observer, it seems that Miss Jeantel did not have any understanding of the gravity of testifying in this trial."

Meanwhile, Jeantel's demeanor in court — described in media reports as "annoyed," "confused," "combative," "hostile," and more — was probably not helpful to prosecutors either. Among the more controversial comments: referring to the defense attorney as "the bald man" and answering questions with remarks like "that's retarded."

"Her seeming contempt for the proceedings of the court itself was detrimental," Project 21's Martin continued. "While some outside observers were very critical of the defense's tactics early on, it must be remembered that the burden is not really on the defense here as much as it is on the prosecution to prepare their star witness. It seems that did not happen here."

Some legal analysts suggested that West may have been too hard on Jeantel during cross examination — especially considering the controversial selection of an all-female jury, which might sympathize with her. At one point, for example, the defense asked the witness whether she was feeling OK after the previous day's testimony. In a question that might have sounded like it was aimed at making Jeantel sound ridiculous, West asked her "what wet grass sounds like," a question based on her previous statements.

The defendant has argued from the start that Martin brutally attacked him and bashed his head on the ground on February 26, 2012, leading Zimmerman, 29, to shoot in self-defense. Photographs of the injuries and other evidence appear to corroborate those claims, legal experts have said. Zimmerman was not even arrested until more than 40 days after the incident — not until race-profiteers and deceptive media coverage tried to inject alleged racism into the case.

The prosecution, meanwhile, is trying to prove that Zimmerman profiled the unarmed 17-year-old, followed him, and then murdered him with a "depraved mind showing no regard for human life." With much of the key evidence now out in the open — Jeantel's testimony, the 911 call, and more — the trial is expected to last at least another week, possibly more.

The judge ruled that defense attorneys cannot talk about Martin's history of drug use, school suspensions, and more. Also not admissible: testimony based on novel techniques that could supposedly identify Martin as the person screaming that night. If convicted by the jury on charges of second-degree murder, Zimmerman could face life in prison.


Related articles:

Amid Controversy, Zimmerman Murder Trial Begins

Judge in Trayvon Martin Case Rules Some Evidence Off Limits

First Anniversary of Florida Shooting Still Raises Questions

Zimmerman Injury Photo Raises Questions About Prosecution, Media

Racists Prepare for "Race War" Over Florida Shooting

Experts Weigh in After Four Witnesses in Trayvon Martin Case Change Story

Medical Report Shows Martin Attacked Zimmerman

Dershowitz: Prosecutor Should Drop Charges Against Zimmerman

Democrat Anti-Self-Defense "Trayvon Amendment" on Hold, For Now

"Stand Your Ground" and Self Defense

Florida "Stand Your Ground" Task Force Meets, Democrat Wants Changes

Anti-Gun Zealots Exploit Florida Tragedy

UN "Human Rights" Boss Questions Fla. Law, Demands Justice for Trayvon

Prosecutors In Zimmerman Case Release Affidavit, But Face Trouble Getting Conviction

Zimmerman Charged With Second-Degree Murder


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: asscracker; georgezimmerman; kangaroocourt; racewar; racheljeantel; trayvonmartin; witnesscantread; witnesscantwrite; witnesslies; zimmerman

1 posted on 06/28/2013 11:39:38 PM PDT by VitacoreVision
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To: VitacoreVision
Among the more controversial comments: referring to the defense attorney as "the bald man

What were the less controversial comments?


2 posted on 06/28/2013 11:52:48 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy ("New Yorks Finest" are now "The Untouchables")
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To: VitacoreVision
At least someone in the media is honestly reporting their "star" witness was more like a "moon."

O

3 posted on 06/28/2013 11:58:04 PM PDT by Jeff Winston
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To: VitacoreVision
I think her biggest flop, which the defense should stress more, is that fact that she revealed Martin's hostility for Zimmerman right before the attack. This needs to be contrasted with the comments Zimmerman made:

Zimmerman's derogatory comments were aimed at those who had been burglarizing his neighborhood, were made long before the encounter, and occurred when he was talking about the break-ins with the dispatcher. Martin's derogatory comments were aimed directly at Zimmerman, occurred right before the encounter, and were made while he was talking about Zimmerman on the phone.
4 posted on 06/29/2013 12:04:17 AM PDT by zencycler
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To: Jeff Winston

“First, reporters uncovered a Twitter account used by Jeantel,”
____________________________________
I am amazed that the skank even knows what a computer is.


5 posted on 06/29/2013 12:08:03 AM PDT by AlexW
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To: AlexW

She probably goes to some nasty Rap Crap websites.


6 posted on 06/29/2013 12:30:43 AM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it. Their minds have been stolen.)
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To: zencycler
Zimmerman's derogatory comments were aimed at those who had been burglarizing his neighborhood, were made long before the encounter, and occurred when he was talking about the break-ins with the dispatcher. Martin's derogatory comments were aimed directly at Zimmerman, occurred right before the encounter, and were made while he was talking about Zimmerman on the phone.

Excellent point. Every good defense attorney should be constructing their closing argument after each trial day. The point you just made needs to be emphasized in the closing argument, especially since the prosecution team led off their opening statement with Zimmerman's words.

And, by the way, The Today Show should apologize to its viewers each and every day they cover this story. Their deceitful editing of Zimmerman's phone call to make him look racist caused great harm to his ability to get a fair trial. Turns out Martin was the racist, not Zimmerman. But I doubt NBC will be acknowledging that. The NBC peacock is no longer colorful. It's just black these days.

7 posted on 06/29/2013 12:37:58 AM PDT by billclintonwillrotinhell
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To: VitacoreVision

I’m just amazed at her stamina and ability to be out of the ocean so long.

Where the heck is her blow hole?


8 posted on 06/29/2013 1:28:50 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: zencycler

I posted this on another thread but it fits the facts better.<<
A better theory is:

GZ saw TM doing suspicious activity, walking next to houses rather than on sidewalk because of the rain. GZ called this in to Police and they were en route. He continued to watch the suspicious activity by following TM at some kind of distance, but not much. Rachel was on phone and TM was giving locations. She was also giving stupid commentary. TM made it home and GZ lost him and went back to his truck. For some reason, TM went to confront GZ a fight ensued and GZ shot TM. TM died on the scene.

Why would TM go back to confront GZ if he was home free? And I believe Rachel even if her presentation was awful. She told enough of the truth to see the scene. I don’t think ten years of coaching would have given her enough practice to lie effectively, not ignorance though...ego. Rachel told TM that she though that guy following TM was a sexual predator. The implication would be that he wanted TM for that purpose. That could make a young man with a violence problem go back and try to beat on the “sexual predator”.

This also does not sell well in the media as you would have a hate crime...the beating of GZ because of perceived sexual orientation, vs. the death of a black youth to gun violence by someone not favored by media status.

This theory fits the facts of all the witnesses I’m aware of, and answers the stupid questions. It is also consistent with young behavior.

I cannot get inside TM’s head, so this will only be a theory and I think it fits the facts better and with more explanation of all the parties behaviors better than the ones I’ve heard.

What do you think?

DK


9 posted on 06/29/2013 1:43:26 AM PDT by Dark Knight
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To: Trueblackman
Kevin Martin, a member of the conservative-leaning Project 21 black leadership network

PING!
10 posted on 06/29/2013 1:47:24 AM PDT by RandallFlagg (IRS = Internal Revenge Service)
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To: VitacoreVision
Unless it can be proved that Zimmerman laid hands on Martin first the most heinous action Zimmerman could be accused of is "dissing" Martin.

There is no right, outside of the ghetto, anyway, to punch someone because they hurt your feelings.

11 posted on 06/29/2013 1:53:39 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: VitacoreVision
The burden lies with the prosecution to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman attacked Martin, and when that went badly, shot him.

The latter is not contested: Zimmerman shot Martin.

However, the volumes of instant hatred and derision contained in the statement "creepy ass cracker" imply a chip on Martin's shoulder, with built-in reason to confront and engage Zimmerman first.

Without evidence to show zimmerman initiated a confrontation, there is reasonable doubt contained in those three words and the mindset they inply.

12 posted on 06/29/2013 2:11:05 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Dark Knight

Who knows; but I wouldn’t think that would be it. Also, she could have encouraged him to fight GZ.


13 posted on 06/29/2013 2:44:12 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Vendome
I’m just amazed at her stamina and ability to be out of the ocean so long.

Where the heck is her blow hole?

You don't want to know.

14 posted on 06/29/2013 2:50:06 AM PDT by JohnG45
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To: VitacoreVision
Rachel Jeantel needs a champion to make her even more of a celebrity. Another Al Sharpton looking to make a name for himself...

And the only reason this is a national interest story is because it is "Man bites dog". If the 17-year-old black kid was the one with the gun and the 30-year-old Hispanic kid was the one who got shot, the media would ignore the story as another one that happens all the time.

15 posted on 06/29/2013 3:00:40 AM PDT by Bernard (The Road To Hell is not paved with good results.)
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To: Bernard

She don’t wanna be a celebraty, she want more money from the Martin’s and all the jewelry Tray sold. Because she was not a girlfriend, I’d say maybe a fence.


16 posted on 06/29/2013 4:02:31 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

“Unless it can be proved that Zimmerman laid hands on Martin first the most heinous action Zimmerman could be accused of is “dissing” Martin.”

Of course, all the legal beagles from the left are stating that just because GZ was getting a beat down, there was no reason for him to actually shoot babyboy.


17 posted on 06/29/2013 4:39:47 AM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like it)
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To: Sacajaweau

“I’d say maybe a fence”

I kept waiting for someone to claim that big honkin’ watch she was sporting. Did taxpayer food stamps pay for it?


18 posted on 06/29/2013 4:41:39 AM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like it)
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To: Dark Knight
TM was a known thief and burglar, a marijuana user and neophyte dealer, and a budding thug. Arriving in an area new to him, he solicited an excuse to go on the prowl by offering his younger brother a snack from the nearby convenience store. The flimsiness of this excuse is clear from the drizzling rain, that it was after dark, and that his father was intending to take his girlfriend and two boys out to dinner.

Notably, TM went out without informing his father or getting permission, a flouting of his father's authority and a potential delay to dinner plans. TM's father cannot have been pleased and, instead of waiting for TM to return, he took his party to dinner.

This would impose on TM the punishment of missing a substantial sit down dinner and leaving him to whatever his father and his girlfriend might then contrive for him. Had TM arrived back to the townhouse safely, he would have found it empty, with a talking to from his father impending.

As it was, looking for mischief, TM found it in the form of an opportunity to attack an overweight, older white guy shorter than himself and for whom he saw an excuse to attack. With Rachel Jeantel as an audience of sorts, a successful beat down of an adult white male would enhance TM's reputation among his peers and with Jeantel as a potential romantic partner.

Oddly, few have pointed out GM's error in not identifying himself as with the neighborhood watch, introducing himself by name, and explaining his interest in TM. That would likely have blown TM's sense of confidence and might have defused the encounter. As one veteran NYPD street cop explained to me, he and his colleagues were taught to talk strangers up because it helped gather information, avoid confrontations, and put villains off their game.

After TM's death, Jeantel found herself in unusual and exhilarating circumstances: people who mattered were paying favorable attention to her and eager to hear what she had to tell. Under continued questioning, her story evolved as she elaborated on her brief telephone contact with TM.

Gradually, TM's family and lawyers solicited a racially charged account that cast TM as the victim. Their rewards so far include a favorable national media attention and a million dollar liability settlement from the insurer for the neighborhood association. Lucrative book and media deals are no doubt in the offing if the prosecution wins.

Did Jeantel first suggest to TM that GM was a sexual predator? Maybe, but her story is so changeable that it is hard to have confidence in its truthfulness. By now, Jeantel does not easily recall the truth and dare not offer it up undiluted by lies.

19 posted on 06/29/2013 5:30:20 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: VitacoreVision

I’m, in no way, defending the prosocution BUT we need to remember they were FORCED to bring this case because of the comments by the president of the United States and his sheriff.

In my mind, the prosecutors MIGHT have been thinking...’you want a case, well here it is’ and put on their ‘star WITLESS’ and they are continually adding witnesses to make this case laughable.


20 posted on 06/29/2013 5:49:20 AM PDT by RetSignman (Immigration border protection is America's version of the Maginot Line)
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To: Jeff Winston

At least someone in the media is honestly reporting their “star” witness was more like a “moon.”

That’s no moon, it’s a space station.


21 posted on 06/29/2013 5:57:41 AM PDT by Antihero101607
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To: VitacoreVision
She said "creepy ass-cracker" which is not racial.

In Feral Urban Youth (FUY) speak "creepy" means pervert and "ass-cracker" refers to homosexual sodomy.

That usage also explains her implication that St. Travon might get raped, and his response to "stop playing me."

22 posted on 06/29/2013 6:04:14 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Don't assume Shahanshah Obama will allow another election.)
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To: Dark Knight
The timeline Rachel established (he was already near home after the next to last call) is an excellent point, and establishes the likelihood that TM made a conscious decision to not go home and to confront Zimmerman, which is likely exactly what happened

Regarding your other point, also a good one, the defense would need to be careful about how they referred to his possible motivations for not going home, since once they start planting the suggestion that TM wanted to beat up on this creepy, cracker, gay rapist because of his sexual orientation, then I'm sure the judge would sustain an objection of this being highly speculative or something like that. But whatever they can get in before the objection is made may be worthwhile for the jury to hear. Sure, they're supposed to ignore it now, but we all know how that goes.
23 posted on 06/29/2013 8:08:08 AM PDT by zencycler
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To: VitacoreVision
Among the more controversial comments: referring to the defense attorney as "the bald man"

In fact, she was describing prosecution attorney Bernie De La Rionda (bald), one of many people present at one of her interviews, to defense attorney Don West (pictured in reply #2) here (also bald).

The author has confused the meanings of "controversial" and "humorous" here as well.

24 posted on 06/29/2013 8:32:01 AM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten percent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: Rockingham
Oddly, few have pointed out GM's error in not identifying himself as with the neighborhood watch, introducing himself by name, and explaining his interest in TM

From all the evidence I've heard, this is the only thing that I'm sure Zimmerman did wrong. Some others (not me) might also add things like "following" or "carrying a gun" to this list. But while folks on the jury might be sure of that Zimmerman was wrong for some of these things, I hope that they all recognize that NONE of them are either illegal or a justification for Martin's use of force against Zimmerman.

It's amazing to me just how many folks I hear, including some media talking heads, ridiculously argue that Zimmerman's bad judgments leading up to the encounter make him automatically guilty for the death that followed, regardless of what Trayvon may have done.

They'd be better off arguing that he bears some degree of moral responsibility for this death. But there's a world of difference between saying that and saying he is guilty of second degree murder that night simply because he decided to carry a gun, follow, and/or not properly identify himself. This wouldn't come across as a crazy argument, and like I said, I'd even agree with Zim bearing some moral responsibility for TM's death as it relates to the non-identification issue. We know that there were some words exchanged before the beat down, so he did have a chance to do this, and based on how long he'd been involved in performing these duties, he should have had a script ready for something like this.
25 posted on 06/29/2013 8:34:05 AM PDT by zencycler
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To: billclintonwillrotinhell
But I doubt NBC will be acknowledging that.

GZ's lawsuit against them on just that matter is intended to force them to acknowledge it with a six-figure payment.

26 posted on 06/29/2013 8:35:13 AM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten percent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: Dark Knight

So far so good. The Scheme Team, after months of well-documented statements that it was all about race, suddenly turned on a dime and held a press conference that same night that “creepy-ass cracka” became the phrase of the day to express their shock, shock that anybody could think that it had anything to do with race.


27 posted on 06/29/2013 8:39:25 AM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten percent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: Rockingham
Oddly, few have pointed out GM's error in not identifying himself as with the neighborhood watch, introducing himself by name, and explaining his interest in TM.

We might find out that he never had the chance, that Trashcan was on him so quickly and with no desire whatsoever to ask or answer any questions.

28 posted on 06/29/2013 8:41:43 AM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten percent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: VitacoreVision

29 posted on 06/29/2013 8:42:37 AM PDT by JoeProBono (Mille vocibus imago valet;-{)
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To: freeangel

Probably from the same slush fund that paid for the new braces she started complaining about just a few months after she started doing interviews and depositions with the prosecution and Trashcan’s lawyers.


30 posted on 06/29/2013 8:44:36 AM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten percent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: VitacoreVision
I watched a panel of 6 people discuss the case on TV, 4 liberal women and 2 conservative men.

The women thought Jeantel was brilliant and the men thought she was.......... what we think she is, a disaster.

The liberal women should be embarrassed.

31 posted on 06/29/2013 8:46:00 AM PDT by Ditter
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To: JoeProBono

STACKS @ChinaStacks 26 Jun
Who this fat girl on the stand? Her tongue dangling and s***

https://twitter.com/ChinaStacks


32 posted on 06/29/2013 8:52:27 AM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten percent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: VitacoreVision

The prosecution desperately needs a slogan:

“If he’s a cracker, he must be the attacker”


33 posted on 06/29/2013 9:02:40 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: zencycler
IMO it's too early to know how the prosecutor is going to play this....remember things seemed to be laughable with Casey Anthony's attorney as well, very early on and throughout...but he brought the gold home in the end.
34 posted on 06/29/2013 9:08:57 AM PDT by caww
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To: dragnet2

35 posted on 06/29/2013 9:31:06 AM PDT by JoeProBono (Mille vocibus imago valet;-{)
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To: AlexW

They twitter from their bommaphones.


36 posted on 06/29/2013 10:13:42 AM PDT by houeto (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: ASA Vet
She said "creepy ass-cracker" which is not racial.

In Feral Urban Youth (FUY) speak "creepy" means pervert and "ass-cracker" refers to homosexual sodomy.

Ummm, no. The cadence in this lingo is creepy-ass cracker (not the way you have it), with "creepy-ass" referring to his behavior (i.e. his "creepy-assed self") and cracker referring to his race. No offense intended, but you're way off here. Like ridiculously so...

37 posted on 06/29/2013 10:20:55 AM PDT by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (Hwaet! Lar bith maest hord, sothlice!)
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To: VitacoreVision

She may have admitted to more on the witness stand than her arrogant self thinks.

She said that if Trayvon were to get into a fight he would hang up the phone and then call back.

How does she know that??? Have they done it before???.


38 posted on 06/29/2013 10:22:59 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: ASA Vet
ASA Vet said: That usage also explains her implication that St. Travon might get raped, and his response to "stop playing me."

Hmmm...

This hadn't occurred to me. Perhaps the key term then is "ass-cracker", referring to assaultive anal sex and the term doesn't bear any relation to "crackah", being a white person. Had the witness been slightly more articulate perhaps she could have explained this.

How ironic it would be if the witness was completely unaware of the racist content of "crackah" and actually couldn't understand the defense's concern.

39 posted on 06/29/2013 10:30:46 AM PDT by William Tell
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To: zencycler

I get the impression from the police witnesses that Neighborhood Watch training and relations with the police are limited due to liability concerns. If so, Zimmerman can hardly be blamed even in a moral sense for not acting as a trained cop would. Given the media attention, I am surprised at the lack of any relevant professional experts being put on camera.


40 posted on 06/29/2013 10:46:20 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: jiggyboy
Supposedly, there was an initial contact between the two, with Zimmerman later following Martin in order to see what he was up to, thinking that was what the police operator wanted him to do. At some point, Martin attacked Zimmerman, apparently catching him unawares.

Notably, even though Zimmerman did not identify himself as Neighborhood Watch and was following Martin to some degree, that did not give Martin the right to attack Zimmerman. Martin, by throwing the first blows and putting his opponent in fear of his life, moved the transaction to the point that lethal force could be used against him.

41 posted on 06/29/2013 11:08:55 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Rockingham

You make a fair point, and I’d tend to agree. I think there’s reasonable arguments on both sides of that issue, which was mostly what I meant. On all other issues, I just listen to those against Zimmerman and think - what, are you insane?


42 posted on 06/29/2013 11:53:33 AM PDT by zencycler
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To: zencycler

Some months ago, I was astonished to hear even my level-headed mother make anti-Zimmerman comments. After some pushback from me, my mother fessed up: she had worried more than a little over the years about the kind of mischief that her three sons might get into when we were growing up, and Zimmerman made tangible again the worries she had once experienced for the safety and well-being of me and my brothers.


43 posted on 06/29/2013 4:05:45 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: VitacoreVision

She looks like a thug.


44 posted on 06/29/2013 4:07:41 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Rockingham
I wish I could say I had the same success when confronted with similar situations among some of the Democrat (but otherwise level-headed) members of my own extended family when discussing the Zimmerman case. I think their temporary insanity over this issue has resulted from the following:

1) Certain issues like guns and alleged racism are hot button issues among many on the left, which can immediately shut off their ability to think logically about an issue.

2) When your source of news comes from NYT, CNN and MSNBC, then the first impressions you got from all the misinformation they put out on this case is likely all that you still know about it.

3) Liberalism in general is a brain disease, and some of the more serious symptoms of this disease which can impair one's reason to think logically have been exacerbated by the factors mentioned above.
45 posted on 06/29/2013 6:18:21 PM PDT by zencycler
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To: zencycler

There is a solid body of political science research and opinion surveys that show liberals to be poorly informed as to the facts. Of course, liberalism is less about facts than about moral preening.


46 posted on 06/29/2013 6:34:07 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: RandallFlagg
"To say that Miss Jeantel's testimony was anything other than a fiasco would be an understatement,” Martin said in statement distributed by the National Center for Public Policy Research. "The prosecution did a real disservice to the memory of Trayvon Martin in apparently not preparing Rachel Jeantel well enough to testify. To the casual observer, it seems that Miss Jeantel did not have any understanding of the gravity of testifying in this trial."

Meanwhile, Jeantel's demeanor in court — described in media reports as "annoyed," "confused," "combative," "hostile," and more — was probably not helpful to prosecutors either. Among the more controversial comments: referring to the defense attorney as "the bald man" and answering questions with remarks like "that's retarded."

"Her seeming contempt for the proceedings of the court itself was detrimental," Project 21's Martin continued. "While some outside observers were very critical of the defense's tactics early on, it must be remembered that the burden is not really on the defense here as much as it is on the prosecution to prepare their star witness. It seems that did not happen here."

This is actually a very good point by Kevin. There are plenty of suspect things that the prosecution is doing, but NOT prepping your star witness would rank really high up there on incompetence. This woman appeared not to be prepped at all. This is a normal thing that is taught in law school.

I understand that once a person takes the stand its out of your hands. I have heard and sene nutjobs who reverted to lying and acting like a ranting, raving lunatic on the stand after spending countless hours of coaching.

47 posted on 06/30/2013 11:02:10 PM PDT by KC_Conspirator
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